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Why is a gun caliber a gun caliber?


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ZXrage #1 Posted Apr 23 2016 - 16:05

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It's a vague question I know, but hear me out.

 

I never understood why the caliber of the gun on some tanks are the way they are. Why is it 105mm? Why couldn't it be 104 or 106? Does geometry have a role in designating caliber of the gun? I'm curious.



Red_Ensign #2 Posted Apr 23 2016 - 16:12

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View PostZXrage, on Apr 23 2016 - 09:05, said:

It's a vague question I know, but hear me out.

 

I never understood why the caliber of the gun on some tanks are the way they are. Why is it 105mm? Why couldn't it be 104 or 106? Does geometry have a role in designating caliber of the gun? I'm curious.

 

guns are in mm to teach americans the metric system

Crucis #3 Posted Apr 23 2016 - 16:14

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Actually, when you talk about "caliber" for naval artillery, it refers to the LENGTH of the gun barrel (as a multiple of the bore), not the bore of the gun barrel itself.

 

EDIT:  Oh crap.  Sorry, I had both the WoT and WoWS forums up at the same time, and because they use the same color scheme, I mentally defaulted to thinking that this was a WoWS forum question.  My bad.


Edited by Crucis, Apr 23 2016 - 16:20.


Laceylace #4 Posted Apr 23 2016 - 16:15

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Never thought about that. Most likely for design purposes. Which came first though? The shell or the barrel?

Crucis #5 Posted Apr 23 2016 - 16:17

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View PostRed_Ensign, on Apr 23 2016 - 10:12, said:

View PostZXrage, on Apr 23 2016 - 09:05, said:

It's a vague question I know, but hear me out.

 

I never understood why the caliber of the gun on some tanks are the way they are. Why is it 105mm? Why couldn't it be 104 or 106? Does geometry have a role in designating caliber of the gun? I'm curious.

 

guns are in mm to teach americans the metric system

 

Honestly, this annoys me no end.  American guns in the period covered by the game were measured inches, not mm.  Why not use both in descriptions?  I don't need to be "taught" the metric system.  All this "teaching" does is make the developers look annoying and pedantic.

 

 



werecat #6 Posted Apr 23 2016 - 16:17

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View PostLaceylace, on Apr 23 2016 - 15:15, said:

Which came first though? The shell or the barrel?

 

The shell came first, they had slingshots and trebuchets back in the middle ages



Dratt_Dastardly #7 Posted Apr 23 2016 - 16:18

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It's to keep ammunition standardized.  Logistically, it would be easier to buy bulk ammunition for a wide range of gun models than to have to buy special calibers for each model.

 

If you look across the game, all nations used the same caliber.  The biggest minor change was going from a 75mm to a 76mm.  Germany then up theirs to combat heavier armor by doing 88mm.  No idea why they didn't go 90mm.



Savage281 #8 Posted Apr 23 2016 - 16:46

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View PostCrucis, on Apr 23 2016 - 16:17, said:

 

Honestly, this annoys me no end.  American guns in the period covered by the game were measured inches, not mm.  Why not use both in descriptions?  I don't need to be "taught" the metric system.  All this "teaching" does is make the developers look annoying and pedantic.

 

 

 

American guns have always been measured in mm. It is the Brits who measure in inches.

Lethalhavoc #9 Posted Apr 23 2016 - 16:48

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Someone in charge said we need a bigger gun.

So, they hired a design team and an engineering team.

The engineers told the designs what characteristics would be the easiest most practical to produce given the specifications and requirements.

The designers then designed the gun and ammunition, as well as the dies and molds to make the various components.

The engineers then made the various parts and assembled the final products, as well as modifying the dies and molds to correct any flaws.


 

After testing if the final product met the specifications required it would go into production.

If it failed, it would be adjusted until it passed or was deemed unfit for service.


 

US makes a 75mm gun to take on the German short barreled 75mm and long 50mm guns.

The Germans adapt an 88mm gun, the US makes a 90mm gun.

For every bigger gun that was developed by one side it was countered by the other.


 


 


 


Edited by Lethalhavoc, Apr 23 2016 - 16:50.


Lethalhavoc #10 Posted Apr 23 2016 - 16:49

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View PostSavage281, on Apr 23 2016 - 16:46, said:

 

American guns have always been measured in mm. It is the Brits who measure in inches.

 

The Brits measured in pounds.

The US measured in inches. By mid WWII the US army/airforce converted to metric.

The US navy however retained inches until the mid 70's?


Edited by Lethalhavoc, Apr 23 2016 - 16:53.


Captain_Rex33 #11 Posted Apr 23 2016 - 16:50

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View PostCrucis, on Apr 23 2016 - 15:17, said:

 

Honestly, this annoys me no end.  American guns in the period covered by the game were measured inches, not mm.  Why not use both in descriptions?  I don't need to be "taught" the metric system.  All this "teaching" does is make the developers look annoying and pedantic.

 

 

 

​honestly the imperial system needs to die and everybody should go metric, I'm American and I find it very annoying how I was gimped as having learned imperial up till high school where I had to teach myself metric which is actually applicable in the real world because people are too stubborn to stop using an old, illogical, and stupid system, you need to suck it up and catch up with the rest of the world.

 

metric > imperial



Savage281 #12 Posted Apr 23 2016 - 16:56

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View PostLethalhavoc, on Apr 23 2016 - 16:49, said:

 

The Brits measured in pounds.

The US measured in inches. By mid WWII the US converted to metric.

 

I've seen a lot of US tanks in Brit service with "3 inch" guns, but Brit produced guns are typically in pounds. Every US gun I have seen is in mm, with the exception of the M10 3 inch GMC

Crucis #13 Posted Apr 23 2016 - 16:58

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View PostSavage281, on Apr 23 2016 - 10:46, said:

View PostCrucis, on Apr 23 2016 - 16:17, said:

 

Honestly, this annoys me no end.  American guns in the period covered by the game were measured inches, not mm.  Why not use both in descriptions?  I don't need to be "taught" the metric system.  All this "teaching" does is make the developers look annoying and pedantic.

 

 

 

American guns have always been measured in mm. It is the Brits who measure in inches.

 

Like I said in the edited version of my first post, I got had both the WoWS and WoT forums open at the same time and thought incorrectly that this was a WoWS topic, not a WoT topic.  It's why I said "naval artillery" in the first post, FYI.



Lethalhavoc #14 Posted Apr 23 2016 - 16:58

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View PostSavage281, on Apr 23 2016 - 16:56, said:

 

I've seen a lot of US tanks in Brit service with "3 inch" guns, but Brit produced guns are typically in pounds. Every US gun I have seen is in mm, with the exception of the M10 3 inch GMC

 

Lend lease?

I suggest that you look up British cannons.



MarshmellowTitanic #15 Posted Apr 23 2016 - 16:59

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** Gun Caliber for Dummies **

 

***

In guns, particularly firearms, caliber or calibre is the approximate internal diameter of the barrel, or the diameter of the projectile it fires, in hundredths or sometimes thousandths of an inch. For example, a 45 caliber firearm has a barrel diameter of .45 of an inch. Barrel diameters can also be expressed using metric dimensions, as in "9mm pistol." When the barrel diameter is given in inches, the abbreviation "cal" (for "caliber") can be used. For example, a small-bore rifle with a diameter of 0.22 inches can be referred to as .22 or a .22 cal; however, the decimal point is generally dropped when spoken, making it a "twenty-two caliber" or a "two-two caliber rifle".

In a rifled barrel, the distance is measured between opposing lands or grooves; groove measurements are common in cartridge designations originating in the United States, while land measurements are more common elsewhere. Good performance requires a bullet to closely match the groove diameter of a barrel to ensure a good seal. ***

((( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliber )))

 

 

*** Well, common sense would suggest that the numbers have something to do with size and that is exactly correct. ***

((( http://www.thefirear...what-is-caliber )))

 

As for WHY Metric and Standard

 

Europe has used Metric for many many Years as did most of the rest of the World

 

USA / CANADA used STANDARD MEASURE 

 

Thus we get 2 Different ** CALIBER ** of Guns

 



Crucis #16 Posted Apr 23 2016 - 17:01

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View PostCaptain_Rex33, on Apr 23 2016 - 10:50, said:

View PostCrucis, on Apr 23 2016 - 15:17, said:

 

Honestly, this annoys me no end.  American guns in the period covered by the game were measured inches, not mm.  Why not use both in descriptions?  I don't need to be "taught" the metric system.  All this "teaching" does is make the developers look annoying and pedantic.

 

 

 

​honestly the imperial system needs to die and everybody should go metric, I'm American and I find it very annoying how I was gimped as having learned imperial up till high school where I had to teach myself metric which is actually applicable in the real world because people are too stubborn to stop using an old, illogical, and stupid system, you need to suck it up and catch up with the rest of the world.

 

metric > imperial

 

 

It's not "illogical".  It's just a different logic.  As for being stubborn, too bad.   I'm not going to cave in to a bunch of people whose only argument is that "the rest of the world does it".  That's nothing but a lemmings argument.  You can jump off a cliff like the rest of the proverbial lemmings.  I choose not to do so.

 

 



Bsan77 #17 Posted Apr 23 2016 - 17:14

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View PostMarshmellowTitanic, on Apr 23 2016 - 09:59, said:

As for WHY Metric and Standard

 

Europe has used Metric for many many Years as did most of the rest of the World

 

USA / CANADA used STANDARD MEASURE 

 

Thus we get 2 Different ** CALIBER ** of Guns

 

I'm assuming that by "Standard" you mean "Imperial". The only countries in the world to use the Imperial system today(feet, inches, gallons, miles, pounds) are the U.S., Liberia, and Myanmar. While I agree that the Metric system is much easier to use/learn, and that it makes way more sense than the Imperial system, we probably won't see it in the U.S. for the simple obstruction of logistics. It would be a monumental task to change all of the road signs alone. While it can be done, it probably won't be.



Lethalhavoc #18 Posted Apr 23 2016 - 17:26

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View PostBsan77, on Apr 23 2016 - 17:14, said:

I'm assuming that by "Standard" you mean "Imperial". The only countries in the world to use the Imperial system today(feet, inches, gallons, miles, pounds) are the U.S., Liberia, and Myanmar. While I agree that the Metric system is much easier to use/learn, and that it makes way more sense than the Imperial system, we probably won't see it in the U.S. for the simple obstruction of logistics. It would be a monumental task to change all of the road signs alone. While it can be done, it probably won't be.

 

No one uses the Imperial system anymore (Canada was the last), I think you meant to say standard.

 

I should explain that Imperial and standard are 2 different but very similar systems.

A Canadian Imperial gallon was 4.53L where as a US standard gallon is 3.8L.


Edited by Lethalhavoc, Apr 23 2016 - 17:28.


Crucis #19 Posted Apr 23 2016 - 17:44

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View PostLethalhavoc, on Apr 23 2016 - 11:26, said:

View PostBsan77, on Apr 23 2016 - 17:14, said:

I'm assuming that by "Standard" you mean "Imperial". The only countries in the world to use the Imperial system today(feet, inches, gallons, miles, pounds) are the U.S., Liberia, and Myanmar. While I agree that the Metric system is much easier to use/learn, and that it makes way more sense than the Imperial system, we probably won't see it in the U.S. for the simple obstruction of logistics. It would be a monumental task to change all of the road signs alone. While it can be done, it probably won't be.

 

No one uses the Imperial system anymore (Canada was the last), I think you meant to say standard.

 

I should explain that Imperial and standard are 2 different but very similar systems.

A Canadian Imperial gallon was 4.53L where as a US standard gallon is 3.8L.

 

I think you meant to say "no one other than the US, etc."...  I'd hardly qualify the US as "no one".


Edited by Crucis, Apr 23 2016 - 17:44.


Lethalhavoc #20 Posted Apr 23 2016 - 18:03

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View PostCrucis, on Apr 23 2016 - 17:44, said:

 

I think you meant to say "no one other than the US, etc."...  I'd hardly qualify the US as "no one".

 

You're mistaken.

I thought I explained it.

The USA uses standard and not Imperial.

They are 2 different types of measurements.






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