118 replies to this topic

[misterbagel]

WOT is sure a fun game. But underneath, I hope that future generations will become curious about history because of this game. After all, without history, there's no future, most likely we will keep repeating our mistakes.

 

It seemed the current media educated generation that's born from the late eighties onward have very little memory, exposure to the catastrophic events that happened in WW1, and WW2.  Now the world war 2 generation is fading away, we are getting very little media coverage on the horrors of war and the individuals that can give testimonial on their experiences on that war.

 

Everything is digital, you-tube, instant entertainment, and everything can be summarized in a few text messages are viewed as valid.  Yet true to life experience, the living breathing human being, recounting their in depth experience, are often dismissed because it is too lengthy, too complicated for instant satisfaction.

 

I think people are often lured into simple answers for complex questions.  Wars are breakdown into statistics, mortality, wound ratios, kill ratios.  Technical readouts of tanks, speed, armor, penetrations etc. These are rational, easy to quote numbers.

 

But behind all these numbers, there is an individual, a living breathing human being, that one way or another, make history happen.

 

As Chieftain illustrates on the picture of shattered armor glass on his tank, however one thinks of his testimonial, his contribution to his part of history making, I hope people will realize how these collective testimonials are for the future generations.  It is part of these experience that help an individual, create that spark of interest, to try to understand meaning of written history and ultimately, a better human being out of it. We can always hope for a better world because of the historical lessons.

[0304]

Iron_Soul_Stealer, on May 05 2016 - 02:54, said:

 

^..He has a valid point.

And what bothers me the most about this whole Iraq/Afghanistan war / "liberation crusade", is that both of those places will probably end up being exactly the same messed up [edited] hole...sorry, 'crap hole' places that they were before...possibly even worse. The whole thing was a waste of human lives, and tax payers dollars.....and the only one{s} that seemed to benefit from both of these wars was the arms dealer Emperor himself {and his business cronies}....[edited] Cheney.

 

*My biggest fear, is that it will all be for nothing....just like Vietnam was. It was all for nothing.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Yeah and the charity donations too, how do we know for sure that our money is being sent to those poor countries?

 

All that cash was probably used to fund those air strikes and infantry bullets. 

 

And Hussein was running his country fine, he EVEN SUPPORTED Christianity! That's exactly what the western countries want, but the USA still killed him...blows my mind!

 

[Avatar14]

So VERY true.  I had the pleasure of being in and around Sadr City at the outbreak in 04 and the internal reaction to small arms was a....what the hell was that.....as compared to the first time an RPG was sent to say hello which was more of an "oh s**t" moment...but in either case, the immediate response of deploy and report kicked in, the facts mattered and the filters went on.

 

I'm curious of when you went through your Officers Basic Course, I was a Senior Black 6 on the Tactics Team from 05-08, and made the transition at the school house from AOBC, to MOBC, to BOLC 3.

[stalkervision]

Our money is going to support corrupt regimes and often we pay it out in suit case of cash to the most corrupt officials. 

[RangerC_231]

IOBC in summer 1971.

[Iron_Soul_Stealer]

0304, on May 04 2016 - 23:38, said:

 

Yeah and the charity donations too, how do we know for sure that our money is being sent to those poor countries?

 

All that cash was probably used to fund those air strikes and infantry bullets. 

 

And Hussein was running his country fine, he EVEN SUPPORTED Christianity! That's exactly what the western countries want, but the USA still killed him...blows my mind!

 

 

Great nations and super powers will always rise and fall...flags forever changing. Most wars are fought over wealth and greed, by old men that talk....and by young men that fight, and die. Regrettably, this cycle will continue like the ocean tides.

 

*However, the only wars truly worth fighting for...are not for Kings, nor land, nor for riches....but for the fundamental principles of humanity. So that we may ALL live in peace...simply....and so that others may simply live. Therein lies the paradox.

 

stalkervision, on May 05 2016 - 07:40, said:

Our money is going to support corrupt regimes and often we pay it out in suit case of cash to the most corrupt officials. 

 

Those that learn nothing from history...are doomed to repeat it.

{Most of us are doomed to repeat it.}

 

 

 

[The_Chieftain]

Avatar14, on May 05 2016 - 12:33, said:

So VERY true.  I had the pleasure of being in and around Sadr City at the outbreak in 04 and the internal reaction to small arms was a....what the hell was that.....as compared to the first time an RPG was sent to say hello which was more of an "oh s**t" moment...but in either case, the immediate response of deploy and report kicked in, the facts mattered and the filters went on.

 

I'm curious of when you went through your Officers Basic Course, I was a Senior Black 6 on the Tactics Team from 05-08, and made the transition at the school house from AOBC, to MOBC, to BOLC 3.

 

Spring/summer 2003. We swung by the gauntlet late summer 2008 in MC3, if you recall a USMC major going through the lieutenants course, would have been likely the only time we were in the same place at the same time

[ArdentF]

Wow.  That was a great article!

[Arishtat]

I was a Humvee gunner for the Brigade Reconnaissance Troop for 1st Brigade, 3rd Infantry Division in 2003. My boss was the platoon leader for first (Red) platoon and my driver was a cool little dude whose physique resembled that of a garden gnome.

 

The first time we took fire my reaction was very much the same arc of 'oh what's that, guys with guns over there; oh hey they're pointing at us *sounds of AKs cracking*; huh those are getting really close, OH crapwhat are those things sticking up out of the road (there were stakes stuck in the road that looked a lot like tilt rods for anti-tank mines) *gets punched in the shin by the Lieutenant* "XXXXX [edited]fire back at them!" "On the way!" Cue a nice burst of MK-19 rounds stitching the berm where the fire was coming from and then a second burst directly into a pickup truck which had a PKM heavy machine gun on a pintle mount.

 

There wasn't time to be anything really, just dig in and do our jobs which was to lay suppression fire, break contact, report in and decide what to do next.

 

The next time was far more deliberate. The second a guy made a move that looked like his rifle was coming up I had the MK-19's safety off and rounds were in the air. My little truck had no armor so our best defense was: A) don't get shot; B) shoot the other dude first

 

The most frightening things for me were the nasty sandstorm that we had to ride out which reduced nighttime visibility to zero with the naked eye, about 25m with night vision goggles and ~100m with thermal sights. That night really sucked. Second to that was when a kid pointed his dad's SKS at me from the parapet of a building; fortunately he vanished the instant we took aim at him. Stupidly I led the patrol into his apartment building only to run into his parents coming the other way, presumably to prevent us from taking their son into custody. We didn't speak Arabic and they didn't speak English so it took some time to establish what the deal was, verify that the weapon was indeed the father's and that the kid would never, ever, ever play with it again like that. This was in April (?) 2003 during the 'honeymoon' phase of the occupation before the sectarian fighting and insurgency got started.

[Willy_W_Wonka]

One of the most insidious things that tankers in Iraq had to deal with was road side bombs and anti tank mines dug into dirt or gravel roads.

 

 

I still remember reports of Iran supplying insurgents with specially designed anti tank mines that used shaped charges that would send a jet of molten metal up through the floor of the tank.

 

Edited by yoggraid, May 07 2016 - 05:57.

[NK_33]

stalkervision, on May 05 2016 - 04:40, said:

Our money is going to support corrupt regimes and often we pay it out in suit case of cash to the most corrupt officials. 

 

Leave the International Olympic Committee out of this.

[Iron_Soul_Stealer]

0304, on May 04 2016 - 20:07, said:

.........

I actually do care about the USA soldiers because they're worker class civilians used as pawns in foreign policy, and they die without knowing what they're really doing.

..........

 

^..Again, that's an excellent observation, and I have to agree.

*It's no coincidence that many of her majesty's British soldiers are from Manchester...one of the poorest working class cities in the UK. If they don't make it as 'rock stars', of pro football {soccer} players....they enlist in the army, like all the other poor blokes. Heck, I think even Paul McCartney once said that if he didn't make it as a musician, he was just going to join the Royal Air Force. I think he was from Liverpool, another working class community.

 

Anyway, I'm glad to see that, with a little luck, some genuine talent, and a lot of hard work, Paul made it....and even earned his wings along the way...

Spoiler

 

 

Unfortunately, a lot of them don't make it.

And it's often these poor kids that make the ultimate sacrifice, and die for "king and country"...what a crock of [edited].

 

 

 

 

[Spector668]

In my first trip to the litterbox(Desert Storm) as a tanker, it was what I considered a 'conventional' fight. I had just been moved to gunner(earned my E-3 fairly fast) for my crew about 3 months before the balloon went up for my unit. I can clearly remember the firefights we were in, but the details such as how many tanks I killed are a blur. One thing I cannot forget is the feeling after my first shot ripped into a T-55. I liked it. There was a part of me that wanted to do it more.

 

 

 

Once the cease-fire was given I remember sitting in my seat and thinking 'Each time I squeezed my triggers, I killed at least four people'. I'd like to believe that I've made my peace with my Maker, but I'll have to wait a bit to find out.

 

The point I am trying to make, and am admittedly doing a poor job doing it, is that in the fight, your training(which was quite extensive) kicks in and sustains you...but the drive, the imperative to survive, to prevail, the will drive you for the fight.

 

Yoggraid...

The devices you are talking about are Explosively Formed Penetrators, EFP's for short. In my trips to both the litterbox and the rockpile, in 2005 through 2008, I saw first-hand just how effective those devices are, loosing my wingman's crew and truck.  One missed hitting my truck by about 5 meters, but the periphery of the blast sheared off our spare tire and an antenna, KO'ed my gunner for a couple of seconds.

 

They came in sizes from 2 inches to 10 inches in diameter, and worked off the Munro Effect of shaped charges.

[Iron_Soul_Stealer]

And speaking of Significant Emotional Events...

 

This is just my personal opinion here, but I sincerely believe that if we, as humans, ever begin to feel "good" about destroying other human beings, in real life, and if we ever begin to actually "like" taking lives, then we need to take a few steps back and check our humanity, because that becomes a very sad day indeed. And even worse, we should certainly never "want" to carry out this human destruction and killing. Again, don't get me wrong everyone...I'm no pacifist, but I just believe that we should NEVER feel good about taking life away from the living, no matter what we may, or may not think of "them", because "they" are probably thinking the same thing about us. Again, therein lies the paradox of war, and "killing in the name".

 

 

[stalkervision]

I think we should set up a death match game with the members here and some of the wg mods and staff if people want to let their tensions out 

[Spector668]

Couple of things.. meant E-5, not E-3(was typing w/o caffeine, sorry!)

 

and to Iron....

Perhaps more on point would be to say that on one level I liked finally knowing that the crapload of training, battle drills, mental gymnastics, etc.. that I did for that moment when it all hit the fan did truly pay off.....and that the Abrams was up to the task as a tank. This feeling could be termed my Professional 'like'.

 

...and now on to the personal level.

I can only speak for myself, but there comes a point where politics and all that crap falls to the wayside, and it becomes a simple matter of the fight. When it comes down to the fight, life becomes very simple. It's the afterward, the realization that you prevailed over the people who were shooing at you, trying their damndest to kill you..THAT is the 'like' I refer to, not the act of killing itself. Bear in mind that with a moral individual, this exhilaration comes tempered with the full and complete knowledge of what one personally did in order to prevail. Now, for myself, does that 'like' make me a killer? A monster? Perhaps to some it might. I can only say that those who love me and that I love in equal measure do not see me in that way at all, and I thank God daily for that. 

For some reading on these and other aspects of combat and killing I highly recommend 'On Combat' http://www.killology.com/books.htm and 'On Killing' http://www.killology.com/books.htm as a good starting point.

[Iron_Soul_Stealer]

stalkervision, on May 17 2016 - 15:21, said:

I think we should set up a death match game with the members here....

~snip~

 

^..The souls of the dead we've killed in combat will always come back to haunt us. Those are the demons that keep us awake at night....at least those of us with a conscience.

 

*World of Tanks is a game....real combat is not.

 

 

 

[stalkervision]

Iron_Soul_Stealer, on May 18 2016 - 09:15, said:

 

^..The souls of the dead we've killed in combat will always come back to haunt us. Those are the demons that keep us awake at night....at least those of us with a conscience.

 

*World of Tanks is a game....real combat is not.

 

 

 

 

  No doubt....​Want to hear a actual us army cadence ?

 

 Look up "Napalm Sticks to kids.."

 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOTsMHTwshg

[AllPower5]

So tank commander open the hatch and scan the horizon exposed? Then they wait for shooting to start before they duck inside and close the hatch? 

[favrepeoria]

stalkervision, on May 18 2016 - 10:03, said:

 

  No doubt....​Want to hear a actual us army cadence ?

 

 Look up "Napalm Sticks to kids.."

 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOTsMHTwshg

I know of a shorter almost worse version of that but with the same meaning. Much more catchy too as I still remember it after quite a few years