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The Wot Ping lottery {Confirmed}


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Ultrasonic2 #1 Posted May 09 2016 - 05:26

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The Wot Ping lottery

 

First off I live in Auckland New Zealand and Play Wot on the West servers Via the ISP Spark (now) with a ADSL2+ connection with Interleaving off.

I have always struggled with the odd pings I get when playing Wot, sometimes it will be 135 others 170 and on the odd occasion 200.

In the past I have spent a lot of time investigating this. I’ve changed routers a few times and changed ISPs but yet my strange pings continued.

Through my testing I was able to reduce my ping from the high ones to a lower one by sometimes..

 

  • Restarting my computer
  • Restarting my router
  • Restarting the game client.

 

However performing the above might result in the ping decreasing or increasing.

 

After speaking to others (NZers)  I have found some of them too performed similar black magic attempts to fix their pings.

Since the above changes are all things we can perform it’s no wonder I believed the problem lay at my end.

At this point I gave up.

 

However recently my son has started to play WoT with me and the strange ping situation became even more perplexing.

We live in the same house and thus are using the same internet we have found that while tooning together one of us might have a good ping (135) while the other could have a bad (180).

Some days we would both have good pings other days we’d both have bad pings and sometime one of us would have a good one and the other bad, but never the same person.

Since the most common cause of bad pings are the same for us (isp router..) I got back on the case, as this disproved most theories as to why the ping variance might occur.

It was still true that if one of us had a bad ping it might be fixed by restarting something to get a better ping, but not the router anymore because we knew that it couldn’t be that because one of us had a good ping at times.

 

Since then I’ve stumbled across some of these apps that claim to reduce ping like WTFast and Mudfish. Like all other claimed miracle ping fixes I was very sceptical cos most of these fixes simply don’t work (and I can prove it).

 

The question became since my pings are randomly good or bad how would I know if any program was fixing my random pings. At this point im not looking for a ping reduction just ping stability (138).

 

Well I wrote this:---

 

 

From this I can ping 10 addresses at the same time.

 

 Also if I click on the address it will perform a trace. A trace tells you which routers devices your traffic is passing through to get from your machine to the WoT servers. Bad pings may be a result of a hardware problems with one of the routers (overloaded) or your traffic may simply be get routed via different devices depending on a number of factors.

 

In my quest identify some of these factors I have been for years now performing a tracert to 162.213.85 every hour and keeping a record of this. It has helped to identify the exact time-ish  when the ping increased or if the routing changed.

 

However the ping of 162.213.85 (one of the WoT West servers) is not necessary related to my in-game ping.

 

Now getting back to my app, the question is what addresses should I ping. Searching the web showed a variation on what the West servers IP was , so in integrated Wireshark into my app. I can simply run my app while connecting to WOT and it will tell me where my data is going too.

 

To my surprise I discovered that the server you communicate with changes most of the time if you log out and back in again.

 

More interesting than that is the fact that the differing servers have significantly different pings and these servers pings were the ones I got in game.

 

Now its also very interesting that the servers with bad pings are not always the same servers today on that short list it’s 162.213.61.59, 162.213.61.60 however im actually connected to 162.213.61.61   

 

If I disconnect WOT and try again this time I got 162.213.61.58

 

And for the last try I got 162.213.57 which is currently one of the bad ones !

 

Here is a trace to the best and worst servers at the moment. 

i

 

 

 

In short the ping you get depends on which one of the MANY WG servers you connect to and it’s true that restarting the game client may make the problem better or worse.

 

 

FYI 162.216.XX.XX are East servers and as you can see they also have a ping variance. 

FYI Disconnected is not referring to a connection to WOT but to my other APP

 

 

EDIT :----

Has issue

Private

NZ based ISP Spark over adsl2+  x2 people

NZ based ISP BigPipe over VDSL (BigPipes parent ISP is SparK)

JAPAN User has an issue

 

Businesses 

NZ based ISP Spark over fibre  In theory this machine is located at Spark !!!

 

Does not have issue

Businesses 

NZ based ISP maxnet over fibre  x2 people

NZ based ISP Orcon over fibre  (my work)

US East based customer of mine does not show any noticeable ping variation between servers to the west servers.

NL  based customer of mine does not show any noticeable ping variation between servers to the west servers.

 

For a simple test ping these ,and let me know what you get and what connection type you have(VDSL) business/Private  and what ISP your on.

 

162.213.61.XX
63,62,58,55,57,59,60

 

 


Edited by Ultrasonic2, May 14 2016 - 10:23.


TruIy #2 Posted May 09 2016 - 05:30

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+1 for interesting stuff

Mischievous_Emperor #3 Posted May 09 2016 - 06:50

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Instead of all that wasted time... you could just get something better than adsl...

Ultrasonic2 #4 Posted May 09 2016 - 06:56

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View PostTheQuagmire, on May 09 2016 - 06:50, said:

Instead of all that wasted time... you could just get something better than adsl...

 

The problem is not at my end so that would hardly help ... I can only get a best case scenario of a 5ms reduction with fiber. Vdsl could result in an increase in ping since you can't disable interleaving.

Also i get fiber optics by jan 2017.. Yeah baby suck that AU :)

Adsl is the best i can get now.


Edited by Ultrasonic2, May 09 2016 - 06:59.


Mischievous_Emperor #5 Posted May 09 2016 - 07:00

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View PostUltrasonic2, on May 09 2016 - 00:56, said:

 

The problem is not at my end so that would hardly help ... 

Also i get fiber optics by jan 2017.. Yeah baby suck that AU :)

 

Yea connecting to a server across the pacific ocean isn't the problem. Nor is trying to use a adsl terminal to connect either.

Maybe you should just connect to the SEA server and see if the ping isn't terrible there.



RangerC_231 #6 Posted May 09 2016 - 07:14

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+1 A lot of work. I discovered that my ping variability was the result of packet loss at interim servers. I was on the West Coast and there was a Level3.net server that I couldn't avoid. It was always overworked.

Edited by RangerC_231, May 09 2016 - 07:15.


firekitty #7 Posted May 09 2016 - 07:32

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   OP- I have used WTFast app before and had decent results, but there is a catch. I had basic internet before and had to wait for better infrastructure before a better service was available to me. During that time I struggled and did almost everything and experienced every thing you have mentioned.

   I was told to try WTFast app. I did and used the auto connect etc. on it at the start and did see an improvement, but still wasn't quite satisfied. I ended up chatting with another gamer by chance who also used WTFast and mentioned my problems. This person instructed me on what I was doing wrong with WTFast.

   And here is the catch. WTFast will work rather well, BUT the best way to use it means you have to manually go through all the possible connections etc. until you find one that has the least ping. It took me several hours in many sessions to find a good route. I may have been able to find a better one, but was ok with the improvement I managed to get, At the time my ping was 150-300. WTFast cut it to 90-120.

  I had to use the advanced way ( manual) of finding the best route through trial and error. This is done with what they call a chain. I had to keep records of which connections I used and a ping plotter at the same time. It took a lot of effort, but did yield results better than with out WTFast, or using WTFast auto connection.

  That was my experience with WTFast and others may be different. It wasn't that expensive to use WTFast, but now I don't need it as have good internet connection. It may help you, but be prepared to do as I did and have a tedious time to find the best route for your location. Hope this helps



fmbtank #8 Posted May 09 2016 - 07:56

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From what i hear that this is all WG side also....

 

I started playing in 2012 ping was 150-180

its now 230-260.

 

​And my distance is much grater than yours to WG NA East server

 

time for WG to step up the game and improve the servers,update them or WoT 2.0 might not be that attractive after all :) 



Ultrasonic2 #9 Posted May 09 2016 - 08:01

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View Postfirekitty, on May 09 2016 - 07:32, said:

   OP- I have used WTFast app before and had decent results, but there is a catch. I had basic internet before and had to wait for better infrastructure before a better service was available to me. During that time I struggled and did almost everything and experienced every thing you have mentioned.

   I was told to try WTFast app. I did and used the auto connect etc. on it at the start and did see an improvement, but still wasn't quite satisfied. I ended up chatting with another gamer by chance who also used WTFast and mentioned my problems. This person instructed me on what I was doing wrong with WTFast.

   And here is the catch. WTFast will work rather well, BUT the best way to use it means you have to manually go through all the possible connections etc. until you find one that has the least ping. It took me several hours in many sessions to find a good route. I may have been able to find a better one, but was ok with the improvement I managed to get, At the time my ping was 150-300. WTFast cut it to 90-120.

  I had to use the advanced way ( manual) of finding the best route through trial and error. This is done with what they call a chain. I had to keep records of which connections I used and a ping plotter at the same time. It took a lot of effort, but did yield results better than with out WTFast, or using WTFast auto connection.

  That was my experience with WTFast and others may be different. It wasn't that expensive to use WTFast, but now I don't need it as have good internet connection. It may help you, but be prepared to do as I did and have a tedious time to find the best route for your location. Hope this helps

 

HI.. i intentionally did not talk about the effects of things like WTFast and Mufish cos i didn't want to turn this into a post about "Does XXXX" work or not .. That is a different debate that i'd enjoy if another thread was made.

I also did not want this taken down by some one saying i was trying to sell one product or another. In this topic they are irrelevant to my findings since i didn't use them for this testing

 


Edited by Ultrasonic2, May 09 2016 - 08:02.


Ultrasonic2 #10 Posted May 09 2016 - 08:14

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View PostTheQuagmire, on May 09 2016 - 07:00, said:

 

Yea connecting to a server across the pacific ocean isn't the problem. Nor is trying to use a adsl terminal to connect either.

Maybe you should just connect to the SEA server and see if the ping isn't terrible there.

 

Although i have not checked recently SEA did not get me better pings because it's in a random country and NZ internet connects to Australia and the US.  So on the NA there was far less connection issues because there are less hops to it.  

Also the NA players are better than the SEA ones..

 

None of this has anything to do with my post though. The point of my post is when you connect to a cluster (West, East) you'll get assigned a random server and although being in the same ip range their pings CAN vary wildly

 

Now i can only presume that if you're in the US close to the servers there may be little difference and this might be because of significantly different routing. No idea i'd have to be in the US or with a very competent tech to retest. 

 

 

 



kebab6597 #11 Posted May 09 2016 - 08:57

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Why did you turn off interleaving if what your after is stability rather than speed ?

Ultrasonic2 #12 Posted May 09 2016 - 10:35

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View Postkebab6597, on May 09 2016 - 08:57, said:

Why did you turn off interleaving if what your after is stability rather than speed ?

 

Having interleaving On (data correction) will greatly increase your ping. It's a really cool idea but by its nature results in higher latency.  I's only required on bad lines which im not on a bad one. Here you can ask the ISP to turn it off.

Turning interleaving off  or on will not result in the behavior described here.  

If we were talking about packet loss then possibly enabling Interleaving would help.


Edited by Ultrasonic2, May 09 2016 - 10:39.


SneakyPotato #13 Posted May 09 2016 - 11:48

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Pretty interesting post.

 

It may be related to what you're saying more from the Wargaming/BigWorld side of things, but they may not know that these problems exist.  In the early days of Azure we were deploying services to their machines and while the machines were identically spec'd, some servers would take 20-30 minutes to deploy to and others wouldn't finish inside the 2 hour time window. There was literally just two buckets of servers (good and bad), and it ended up that while cloud computing/server load balancing isn't supposed to let that happen it most certainly did. We frequently hit issues like the one you're describing; the main difference is being that I was working at MSFT at the time, we were able to do something about it.  That didn't stop us from bribing numerous tech's with libations to help us in our desperate times of need when we ran into these troubles. I still remember the one I used the most preferred potato vodka.

 

I believe BigWorld is still responsible for the WoT server load balancing, so unless they're actively looking into this on a regular basis, chances are this will continue to happen until they fix it.  If they do fix it, it will probably happen quietly and without any notice to the users.



Alptraumsong #14 Posted May 09 2016 - 13:13

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I feel your pain.

Playing from Saffrica (JHB), my best ping is 280-300 connecting to US East. The best I've heard from here is 200.

No 360 no-scopes.

:(

Now, why, do you ask, don't you play on the EU servers?

Because when I first made my account, I got directed to the NA server cluster, after the client said "BEST PERFORMANCE (heh heh heh heh heh). Also I'm not grinding again. And I find (found) the NA server strangely fun.

:P


Same thing happened when I made my WoWS account, when creating on the EU site, I was 'advised' to switch to NA.

Issue is I go through around 10 servers, with a bottleneck halfway where the ping drops big time.

 



Edited by Alptraumsong, May 09 2016 - 14:00.


Windoge8 #15 Posted May 09 2016 - 15:18

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Anecdotal confirmation of what you discovered. During clan wars campaigns, if you have a busy landing/defense schedule, it's not unusual to have to bounce back and forth between the east and west servers in the US. Being in the east, my east server ping is pretty stable (or rather, so low that I have not paid attention to variations) but I have noticed that my west server ping can vary by login session, and that if I have a persistently poorer ping that relogging can improve it. 

Cognitive_Dissonance #16 Posted May 09 2016 - 15:26

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Regardless of the point of your post.

 

As a backbone engineer, ADSL is (to quote MIB, Men in Black), the worst, of the worst, of the worst of the worst . . . outside of wireless (weather), and satellite.

 

As far as connecting to different servers, well yeah, any large provider will have a cluster of servers that will load share, and are balanced either via the ISP (BGP), or at a node, via some software algorithm.

 

ADSL in addition to all the other factors you mention, will also contribute to your latency. Specifically depending on load in your neighborhood, and the DSLAM you are on.


Edited by SmirkingGerbil, May 09 2016 - 15:27.


Kazzerigian #17 Posted May 09 2016 - 17:14

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I'll assume you're using a wired connection to your router for fastest ping times. Also, to optimize your DNS performance, I recommend the Domain Name Speed Benchmark from grc: https://www.grc.com/dns/benchmark.htm. Definitely get off of your ISP's DNS server if you haven't already.

 

You may know already, and your posts hint at it, that each hop to the next host or router has it's own ping time. Each packet can travel it's own route. Any variance anywhere along the line will affect your overall ping time - which is what you're measuring. A conversation with your ISP about how they route to WoT servers may - and I do only mean may - yield some changes in routing that can positively affect your ping times. Of course, if it's beyond their own resources, they won't be able to help. It's a wild, wild world from source to destination. You seem to be focused on the last couple of hops when the main issues may be between your PC and a hop or two before what's under WoT's control. I hope this all makes sense. Tracert and similar tools can help you identify laggy routes.

 

I hope your situation improves. Unfortunately, you only have control over your end. Otherwise all you can do is diagnose and pester those in control of segments that are creating the most problem. Good luck!


Edited by Kazzerigian, May 09 2016 - 17:15.


DiePanzerGeist #18 Posted May 09 2016 - 17:49

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+1 for struggle-net pain. :honoring:

UR_TANK_SPLODED #19 Posted May 09 2016 - 18:09

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Its not the one on many wg servers, its the one of many "backbone" connections.  Ow, good info for long distance tankers....

Sylvado #20 Posted May 09 2016 - 18:21

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View PostUltrasonic2, on May 09 2016 - 06:56, said:

 

The problem is not at my end so that would hardly help ... I can only get a best case scenario of a 5ms reduction with fiber. Vdsl could result in an increase in ping since you can't disable interleaving.

Also i get fiber optics by jan 2017.. Yeah baby suck that AU :)

Adsl is the best i can get now.

Fiber does not give you better ping time it gives you more bandwidth. 135 mS is a very good ping time to the west coast. Even if you ran fiber from your computer to the server, as the crow flyies, without any routers, you would still be at 50 mS. The latency is impacted mostly by peering agreements between the ISP's and the backbone providers.






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