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Autoloaders +1?


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supertank83 #1 Posted May 10 2016 - 19:16

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Chieftain,  lets say an AMX 12t has fired all but one shell that is currently chambered.  Can the tank reload the magazine while the last round is still in the chamber?   Are there any magazine fed autoloading tanks that can?  I ask because I think of an auto-loader much the same as I think of a pistol.  Suppose you can load 8+1 where eight denotes the number in the magazine and one is in the chamber.  Thus you can reload the magazine without ever being truly unable to fire because the one is in the chamber ready to be fired while you insert another magazine.

Suicidal_Enemy #2 Posted May 10 2016 - 19:22

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Nope, full reload. Gotta wait.

 

 

Even if ya only have one shell left, gotta wait for the full reload.


 

Which is dumb.



Wildblade #3 Posted May 10 2016 - 19:36

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Are we talking in real life or ingame?  In game, its always the full reload, which is how it should be.  Otherwise autoloaders have no weaknesses to balance their obvious strengths.

 

In real life, I have no idea



the_dude_76 #4 Posted May 10 2016 - 19:39

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View Postsupertank83, on May 10 2016 - 18:16, said:

Chieftain,  lets say an AMX 12t has fired all but one shell that is currently chambered.  Can the tank reload the magazine while the last round is still in the chamber?   Are there any magazine fed autoloading tanks that can?  I ask because I think of an auto-loader much the same as I think of a pistol.  Suppose you can load 8+1 where eight denotes the number in the magazine and one is in the chamber.  Thus you can reload the magazine without ever being truly unable to fire because the one is in the chamber ready to be fired while you insert another magazine.

 

Technically the french auto loaders had 2 6 round rotary magazines that could be loaded with any type of shells. The commander would choose which shell was selected each time the gun loaded which means you could have AP, HE and APCR rounds in the same magazine and fire them selectively. Of course after you fired all 12 rounds the magazines would have to be reloaded which could not be done from inside the tank.

The tanks in game work the way they do for game balance more than historical accuracy. 



supertank83 #5 Posted May 10 2016 - 20:05

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View PostGonnamakeitugly, on May 10 2016 - 18:22, said:

Nope, full reload. Gotta wait.

 

 

Even if ya only have one shell left, gotta wait for the full reload.


 

Which is dumb.

 

Drat.  I'd think that military's would think of that so their armor are never so vulnerable.  I don't see how it would be impossible from an engineering point of view...

heavymetal1967 #6 Posted May 10 2016 - 20:08

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What I'd like to see changed is a forced mixed reload if you have less that a full clip/drum of the type of ammo you're trying to load with the selected ammo being in "front".  This wouldn't unbalance things imo.

Cutthroatlemur #7 Posted May 10 2016 - 20:09

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I don't think it matters really...even if there was a round in the chamber you couldn't fire the weapon during reload because the recoil action would probably cause an intense emotional experience for whoever was changing the magazine...

supertank83 #8 Posted May 10 2016 - 20:10

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View PostWildblade, on May 10 2016 - 18:36, said:

Are we talking in real life or ingame?  In game, its always the full reload, which is how it should be.  Otherwise autoloaders have no weaknesses to balance their obvious strengths.

 

In real life, I have no idea

 

In real life was what I was asking. 

 

In the game I know you always have to be vulnerable while reloading.  In my opinion, I think there should be some tanks (in the game) should have it one way and some should be the other - I think it would add an interesting additional dynamic.  If a tank in the game had that option it would have to be balanced with lower alpha, longer magazine reload, etc. but that is an easy fix.



TLWiz #9 Posted May 10 2016 - 20:13

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View Postsupertank83, on May 10 2016 - 19:16, said:

Chieftain,  lets say an AMX 12t has fired all but one shell that is currently chambered.  Can the tank reload the magazine while the last round is still in the chamber?   Are there any magazine fed autoloading tanks that can?  I ask because I think of an auto-loader much the same as I think of a pistol.  Suppose you can load 8+1 where eight denotes the number in the magazine and one is in the chamber.  Thus you can reload the magazine without ever being truly unable to fire because the one is in the chamber ready to be fired while you insert another magazine.

 

Think of it as a semi-automatic pistol with a magazine safety - it cannot fire without a magazine in place. 

supertank83 #10 Posted May 10 2016 - 20:17

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View PostCutthroatlemur, on May 10 2016 - 19:09, said:

I don't think it matters really...even if there was a round in the chamber you couldn't fire the weapon during reload because the recoil action would probably cause an intense emotional experience for whoever was changing the magazine...

 

Yeah it probably would unless it were properly engineered to be reloaded that way.   I can think of some ways to make it work like that though.  For example, you could have a system where you select the magazine the main armament feeds from and reload the magazine that isn't in use while the main armament is feeding from the other.

supertank83 #11 Posted May 10 2016 - 20:18

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View PostTLWiz, on May 10 2016 - 19:13, said:

 

Think of it as a semi-automatic pistol with a magazine safety - it cannot fire without a magazine in place. 

 

Ok.  So that's how it works.  Thank you.  Too bad though.  It would be a cool feature and would improve effectiveness to be able to reload the magazine with one in the chamber.

the_dude_76 #12 Posted May 10 2016 - 20:37

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View PostCutthroatlemur, on May 10 2016 - 19:09, said:

I don't think it matters really...even if there was a round in the chamber you couldn't fire the weapon during reload because the recoil action would probably cause an intense emotional experience for whoever was changing the magazine...

 

The french tanks had their magazines in the bustle well away from the recoil of the gun. In fact many auto loading systems( pretty much anything over 40mm as far as I know) didn't have detachable magazines and were located away from the gun to save space inside the crew compartment. The Russian auto loaders had a carousel type magazine under the gun. In both cases you could reload the magazine with a shell in the chamber without worrying about recoil though equally true is the fact that doing so while in combat was imprudent for other reasons.

The_Chieftain #13 Posted May 10 2016 - 21:03

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View Postthe_dude_76, on May 10 2016 - 19:37, said:

 

The french tanks had their magazines in the bustle well away from the recoil of the gun. In fact many auto loading systems( pretty much anything over 40mm as far as I know) didn't have detachable magazines and were located away from the gun to save space inside the crew compartment. The Russian auto loaders had a carousel type magazine under the gun. In both cases you could reload the magazine with a shell in the chamber without worrying about recoil though equally true is the fact that doing so while in combat was imprudent for other reasons.

 

This.

 

In most cases, they are not like magazines for small arms, the rounds are individually loaded into the revolver/carousel/conveyor. Although it may not be recommended for safety reasons, I can't see any mechanical reason why the chamber (or event r/c/c) must be empty before a reload process is started.



supertank83 #14 Posted May 10 2016 - 21:19

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View PostThe_Chieftain, on May 10 2016 - 20:03, said:

 

This.

 

In most cases, they are not like magazines for small arms, the rounds are individually loaded into the revolver/carousel/conveyor. Although it may not be recommended for safety reasons, I can't see any mechanical reason why the chamber (or event r/c/c) must be empty before a reload process is started.

 

Thank you very much!!!  I thought that was the case (even though I knew the mechanisms employed must necessarily be much different from that in small arms).  Is there any reason this couldn't or shouldn't be implemented into the game?  BTW, great videos pointing out the features of different tanks both inside and outside.  I remember you saying it once but I can't remember, which tank would you prefer to drive over all others? Because of your height and the space issue within most armored vehicles I remember that some were painful if not down right impossible.   

Metagross555 #15 Posted May 10 2016 - 22:46

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I would like autoloaders to be able to load less than the full clip (for example batchat could load 3/5) for a shorter reload, e.g. 20 secs or the T57 heavy would load 2 in 11 secs

Edited by Metagross555, May 10 2016 - 22:48.


Slayer_Jesse #16 Posted May 10 2016 - 23:32

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View PostMetagross555, on May 10 2016 - 16:46, said:

I would like autoloaders to be able to load less than the full clip (for example batchat could load 3/5) for a shorter reload, e.g. 20 secs or the T57 heavy would load 2 in 11 secs

 

at the very least, if you have only say,  3 shells left of a 6 round drum of an ammo type, you should get a reduced reload time.

Cenotaph #17 Posted May 11 2016 - 02:26

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View Postsupertank83, on May 10 2016 - 12:19, said:

 

 Is there any reason this couldn't or shouldn't be implemented into the game?

 

Perhaps because it would completely defeat the balancing / purpose of having an autoloader.

 

For example, a T57 heavy dumps his 4 round clip into you, and then continues to fire shells every 7 seconds till you are dead.

 

So you'd have all the advantage of clipping out an opponent, but none of the disadvantage of a long reload cycle.



Cenotaph #18 Posted May 11 2016 - 02:28

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View PostSlayer_Jesse, on May 10 2016 - 14:32, said:

 

at the very least, if you have only say,  3 shells left of a 6 round drum of an ammo type, you should get a reduced reload time.

 

Bad Idea, for the exact same reason as above.

 

The T57 would shoot a shell or two, reloading single shots every 7 sec and then clip you out.



zloykrolik #19 Posted May 11 2016 - 03:20

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Remember this section is for real life tank questions and info. 

Daigensui #20 Posted May 11 2016 - 17:22

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View Postsupertank83, on May 10 2016 - 13:19, said:

Is there any reason this couldn't or shouldn't be implemented into the game?  

 

1. Balance.

2. At least half of the autoloader tanks had to be reloaded from outside the crew compartment. So technically, every autoloader gets that particular "nerf", so to speak.






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