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Game Balance - Global Rebalance

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24_inch_pythons #1 Posted Jun 04 2016 - 19:30

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How to fix your game during your global rebalance:

1. Reduce RNG - It's time to admit +/- 25% is stupid. Make it 10%, this isn't really a balance issue, just stupid to have.

2. Get rid of 0 dmg critical hits, because +/- 25% RNG just isn't enough, am I right. Again, not a balance issue, just stupid.

3. Fix artillery: Cap it at 1 per side, always bottom tier, tier VIII max, HE only. Turns artillery into a support role and maximizes the amount of leeway people have to brawl / maneuver in-between artillery fire.

4. Fix your stupid MM. Weighting is the dumbest thing after +/- 25% RNG. A T29 does not equal an AMX M4 45, don't even try and pretend it does. Yet, to your immensely stupid MM they are exactly the same. This is why you end up, over and over, and over with matches with one side stacked with heavily armored tanks that have 390 alpha versus tanks with no armor and 200 alpha. Your MM should know the difference between an IS-3 and a Caernarvon and should distribute them fairly.

5. Make aiming matter. Get rid of the snapshot and make people aim to hit what they are shooting at. Conversely, get rid of the shots that come 90 degrees out of the barrel and hit the dirt 10 feet in front of you. Make distance matter in aiming, lets be real, right now a KV-2 can snipe pretty much as well as a Tiger I.

6. You need to open up the ranges more on more of your maps. Try making the maps so the engagement ranges are a little larger. IDK what the average engagement distance is now in WoT but I feel it is too close and too compressed. You're trying to squeeze everybody into a 20 meter area and get them fighting 10 meters apart. Open it up.

7. Need to rework vision. Vision is key in every battle but how many maps are there now where everybody isn't spotting there own targets all the time. This goes with what I was saying about engagement ranges. You have entire classes of tanks that serve no purpose.


 

In summation: When you do your global rebalance, rebalance the game around the need for vision control and the need to aim to hit what you are shooting at. Stretch the engagement distance more on more maps. This doesn't mean you can't have any maps that promote slugfests, just most maps shouldn't because the VAST majority of tanks in your game weren't meant or designed to be in slugfests from 10 meters away. Fix your god awful MM and for the love of god reduce your stupid RNG.



Strike_Witch_Tomoko #2 Posted Jun 04 2016 - 19:42

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0 dmg crit is like you hit the tracks and never touch the hull. nothing wrong with that

 

or you hit optics, but don't touch the turret. nothing wrong with that

 

 

other than that,  yeah spot on



Guilty_By_Association_xD #3 Posted Jun 04 2016 - 19:51

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KV-2 can snipe pretty much as well as a Tiger I.

Yeah no



24_inch_pythons #4 Posted Jun 04 2016 - 19:55

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View PostPompous_Magnus, on Jun 04 2016 - 12:51, said:

KV-2 can snipe pretty much as well as a Tiger I.

Yeah no

 

There may have been some exaggeration on my part. Doesn't change the fact that the aiming stats don't really matter as they are now.

DraconX3 #5 Posted Jun 04 2016 - 19:56

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View PostPompous_Magnus, on Jun 04 2016 - 13:51, said:

KV-2 can snipe pretty much as well as a Tiger I.

Yeah no

 

Yeah, technically it can. The difference is while the Tiger 1 can snipe a fly off your copula at 500 meters.  The KV-2 only has to hit you ANYWERE with HE and your fudged >.>`...... So...yeah.....

ogHaKo #6 Posted Jun 04 2016 - 19:57

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View PostPompous_Magnus, on Jun 04 2016 - 18:51, said:

KV-2 can snipe pretty much as well as a Tiger I.

Yeah no

 

No no no my Comrade. Its the Tiger 1 that can snipe as good as KV-2.



Strike_Witch_Tomoko #7 Posted Jun 04 2016 - 19:59

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View Postchzwhz, on Jun 04 2016 - 11:55, said:

 

 

There may have been some exaggeration on my part. Doesn't change the fact that the aiming stats don't really matter as they are now.

 

better example

KV-2 can snap shot better than a Hellcat

 

152mm vs 90mm....

 

due to gun handling bloom modifiers being laughably bad for hellcat



Andrew9998 #8 Posted Jun 04 2016 - 20:01

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View PostogHaKo, on Jun 04 2016 - 10:57, said:

 

No no no my Comrade. Its the Tiger 1 that can snipe as good as KV-2.

 

Only if you pray to stalin

Guilty_By_Association_xD #9 Posted Jun 04 2016 - 20:05

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Block Quote

 

1. Reduce RNG - It's time to admit +/- 25% is stupid. Make it 10%, this isn't really a balance issue, just stupid to have.

2. Get rid of 0 dmg critical hits, because +/- 25% RNG just isn't enough, am I right. Again, not a balance issue, just stupid.

3. Fix artillery: Cap it at 1 per side, always bottom tier, tier VIII max, HE only. Turns artillery into a support role and maximizes the amount of leeway people have to brawl / maneuver in-between artillery fire.

4. Fix your stupid MM. Weighting is the dumbest thing after +/- 25% RNG. A T29 does not equal an AMX M4 45, don't even try and pretend it does. Yet, to your immensely stupid MM they are exactly the same. This is why you end up, over and over, and over with matches with one side stacked with heavily armored tanks that have 390 alpha versus tanks with no armor and 200 alpha. Your MM should know the difference between an IS-3 and a Caernarvon and should distribute them fairly.

5. Make aiming matter. Get rid of the snapshot and make people aim to hit what they are shooting at. Conversely, get rid of the shots that come 90 degrees out of the barrel and hit the dirt 10 feet in front of you. Make distance matter in aiming, lets be real, right now a KV-2 can snipe pretty much as well as a Tiger I.

6. You need to open up the ranges more on more of your maps. Try making the maps so the engagement ranges are a little larger. IDK what the average engagement distance is now in WoT but I feel it is too close and too compressed. You're trying to squeeze everybody into a 20 meter area and get them fighting 10 meters apart. Open it up.

7. Need to rework vision. Vision is key in every battle but how many maps are there now where everybody isn't spotting there own targets all the time. This goes with what I was saying about engagement ranges. You have entire classes of tanks that serve no purpose.

 

 

Ok, let me break this down.

 

 

1. Agreed 

2. Moot, the "critical hits are just that, hits on the tracks." The crit bell is what you get mad at not the actual shot that gets absorbed.

3. How about rework the class entirely, all we know is the way it is currently is bad for the game.

4. There is nothing wrong with the MM in WOT. Other than the games where there are imbalances of heavy's and med's on certain maps they kind of ruin the game.

5. It does. The reason good player complain about RNG so much is because we know how to aim. So when we miss it is more frustrating because we know where the shell should have gone. Pubbies only stand to benefit from the system because they snap shot and get lucky. 

6. Agreed corridor meta is cancer, it wouldn't be as bad if arty was not as cancerous.

7 Vision in the game is fine, it would do you good to read on how they work. Because this is a common point where bad players cant comprehend the mechanics. 

also danm hako thought you died.

 



24_inch_pythons #10 Posted Jun 04 2016 - 20:11

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View PostPompous_Magnus, on Jun 04 2016 - 13:05, said:

 

 

Ok, let me break this down.

 

 

1. Agreed

2. Moot, the "critical hits are just that, hits on the tracks." The crit bell is what you get mad at not the actual shot that gets absorbed.

3. How about rework the class entirely, all we know is the way it is currently is bad for the game.

4. There is nothing wrong with the MM in WOT. Other than the games where there are imbalances of heavy's and med's on certain maps they kind of ruin the game.

5. It does. The reason good player complain about RNG so much is because we know how to aim. So when we miss it is more frustrating because we know where the shell should have gone. Pubbies only stand to benefit from the system because they snap shot and get lucky.

6. Agreed corridor meta is cancer, it wouldn't be as bad if arty was not as cancerous.

7 Vision in the game is fine, it would do you good to read on how they work. Because this is a common point where bad players cant comprehend the mechanics.

also danm hako thought you died.

 

 

I definitely would not say vision is fine. Due to the "corridor meta" almost every map out there heavy tanks can get to within spotting distance of almost everything without the need for anyone to light anything ever.

Melegaunt #11 Posted Jun 04 2016 - 20:24

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View Postchzwhz, on Jun 04 2016 - 14:11, said:

 

I definitely would not say vision is fine. Due to the "corridor meta" almost every map out there heavy tanks can get to within spotting distance of almost everything without the need for anyone to light anything ever.

 

...But that's not a vision mechanics problem, it's a map design problem.

24_inch_pythons #12 Posted Jun 04 2016 - 20:28

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View PostMelegaunt, on Jun 04 2016 - 13:24, said:

 

...But that's not a vision mechanics problem, it's a map design problem.

 

Never said it wasn't.

 

7. Need to rework vision. Vision is key in every battle but how many maps are there now where everybody isn't spotting there own targets all the time. This goes with what I was saying about engagement ranges. You have entire classes of tanks that serve no purpose.



ObrumPL #13 Posted Jun 04 2016 - 20:53

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View Postchzwhz, on Jun 04 2016 - 19:30, said:

How to fix your game during your global rebalance:

1. Reduce RNG - It's time to admit +/- 25% is stupid. Make it 10%, this isn't really a balance issue, just stupid to have.

2. Get rid of 0 dmg critical hits, because +/- 25% RNG just isn't enough, am I right. Again, not a balance issue, just stupid.

3. Fix artillery: Cap it at 1 per side, always bottom tier, tier VIII max, HE only. Turns artillery into a support role and maximizes the amount of leeway people have to brawl / maneuver in-between artillery fire.

4. Fix your stupid MM. Weighting is the dumbest thing after +/- 25% RNG. A T29 does not equal an AMX M4 45, don't even try and pretend it does. Yet, to your immensely stupid MM they are exactly the same. This is why you end up, over and over, and over with matches with one side stacked with heavily armored tanks that have 390 alpha versus tanks with no armor and 200 alpha. Your MM should know the difference between an IS-3 and a Caernarvon and should distribute them fairly.

5. Make aiming matter. Get rid of the snapshot and make people aim to hit what they are shooting at. Conversely, get rid of the shots that come 90 degrees out of the barrel and hit the dirt 10 feet in front of you. Make distance matter in aiming, lets be real, right now a KV-2 can snipe pretty much as well as a Tiger I.

6. You need to open up the ranges more on more of your maps. Try making the maps so the engagement ranges are a little larger. IDK what the average engagement distance is now in WoT but I feel it is too close and too compressed. You're trying to squeeze everybody into a 20 meter area and get them fighting 10 meters apart. Open it up.

7. Need to rework vision. Vision is key in every battle but how many maps are there now where everybody isn't spotting there own targets all the time. This goes with what I was saying about engagement ranges. You have entire classes of tanks that serve no purpose.


 

In summation: When you do your global rebalance, rebalance the game around the need for vision control and the need to aim to hit what you are shooting at. Stretch the engagement distance more on more maps. This doesn't mean you can't have any maps that promote slugfests, just most maps shouldn't because the VAST majority of tanks in your game weren't meant or designed to be in slugfests from 10 meters away. Fix your god awful MM and for the love of god reduce your stupid RNG.

If I ever had the patience to compile a list about the balance or lack thereof in WoT it would look just like yours. :) Thank you for doing it, i agree 100% :popcorn: 



Charlie_The_Cat #14 Posted Jun 05 2016 - 04:18

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View PostMelegaunt, on Jun 04 2016 - 14:24, said:

 

...But that's not a vision mechanics problem, it's a map design problem.

 

Exactly!  The maps currently favors mediums and fast heavies only.  Maps that were removed were good for scouts and TDs and were bad for med - russian in particular because they needed good gun depression which they don't have.

Charlie_The_Cat #15 Posted Jun 05 2016 - 04:21

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View Postchzwhz, on Jun 04 2016 - 13:30, said:

How to fix your game during your global rebalance:

1. Reduce RNG - It's time to admit +/- 25% is stupid. Make it 10%, this isn't really a balance issue, just stupid to have.

2. Get rid of 0 dmg critical hits, because +/- 25% RNG just isn't enough, am I right. Again, not a balance issue, just stupid.

3. Fix artillery: Cap it at 1 per side, always bottom tier, tier VIII max, HE only. Turns artillery into a support role and maximizes the amount of leeway people have to brawl / maneuver in-between artillery fire.

4. Fix your stupid MM. Weighting is the dumbest thing after +/- 25% RNG. A T29 does not equal an AMX M4 45, don't even try and pretend it does. Yet, to your immensely stupid MM they are exactly the same. This is why you end up, over and over, and over with matches with one side stacked with heavily armored tanks that have 390 alpha versus tanks with no armor and 200 alpha. Your MM should know the difference between an IS-3 and a Caernarvon and should distribute them fairly.

5. Make aiming matter. Get rid of the snapshot and make people aim to hit what they are shooting at. Conversely, get rid of the shots that come 90 degrees out of the barrel and hit the dirt 10 feet in front of you. Make distance matter in aiming, lets be real, right now a KV-2 can snipe pretty much as well as a Tiger I.

6. You need to open up the ranges more on more of your maps. Try making the maps so the engagement ranges are a little larger. IDK what the average engagement distance is now in WoT but I feel it is too close and too compressed. You're trying to squeeze everybody into a 20 meter area and get them fighting 10 meters apart. Open it up.

7. Need to rework vision. Vision is key in every battle but how many maps are there now where everybody isn't spotting there own targets all the time. This goes with what I was saying about engagement ranges. You have entire classes of tanks that serve no purpose.


 

In summation: When you do your global rebalance, rebalance the game around the need for vision control and the need to aim to hit what you are shooting at. Stretch the engagement distance more on more maps. This doesn't mean you can't have any maps that promote slugfests, just most maps shouldn't because the VAST majority of tanks in your game weren't meant or designed to be in slugfests from 10 meters away. Fix your god awful MM and for the love of god reduce your stupid RNG.

 

I agree.

 

I am also tired of "this game is not a simulation", but dang, why so many modules "that simulate" the real thing and having them getting crit all the time.  

If this game is more arcade as WG say it is, then get rid of those modules as they don't add anything to the game except frustration and more way to hamper a tank.

HP are there to simulate those modules, so we don't really need modules to re-simulate over that.

 



Chaosticket #16 Posted Jun 05 2016 - 14:12

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#1 random penetration changes=uh no turn that off, reality doesnt randomly change. penetration should be fixed EXCEPT for range. Shells lose velocity after a certain range and as a consequence a shell traveling 100meters isnt going to have the same penetration(or accuracy) as one moving 1000meters.

 

#3 Anything I read about artillery being broken is laughable, and I ask if the people complaining actually use them?.Just as a idea to test people out, make all damaged modules permanently damaged, like REAL LIFE. See how arty can in real life achieve a "mobility kill" by blowing off your track and leaving you helpless, and then compare that ingame where that is a slap on the wrist, and where they are inexplicable worse than every other vehicle type, but people in heavy tanks complain when they get hit. Ive only been damaged in years by any artillery in a heavy tank, like the paper tiger O-ni which is an artillery magnet. Other vehicles can generally ignore artillery as they take about 10seconds to aim, have the worst accuracy than any not an artillery, require allies to spot stationary uncovered targets for them, and so on. Not to mention artillery have a fraction of the hit points anyone else has, including very small light tanks. In world of tanks, artillery are basically there to suck, and do just enough harassment of heavy tanks to anger people. Theyre not all that effective as they require ENORMOUS Luck, compared to tanks that are "point-click-penetration-yay!". Now, if artillery had their hit points boosted to equal to a medium tank of its tier, and their accuracy reduced by .20, that would be different.

 

#4 matchmaker is bad, as Wargaming keeps making excuses not to have all vehicles at the same tier. There are many thousands of people playing at any one time, so not being able to 30people is falsification of the truth. If 30 people are too much, then maybe the automatic Matchmaker should be adjusted to 10person teams?

 

#5 Random accuracy=no, vehicles really shouldnt even have an aim time, instead there should just be a "ZOOM time" as you, the player, have to zoom in make adjustments to your aim. At short range like 100meters a stationary vehicle should have 100% accuracy, while at 500meters you have to be patient and snipe people, and nobody should be able to hit on the move unless you have a high accuracy gun. Right now you can miss a stationary target at even point blank because shells veer around for no reason.

 

Also vehicles should take longer to move and pick up speed, as they are manual transmissions. they should have to shift gears, not just "forward/back" as fast as possible. No hit and run unless you dont stop running.

 

#7 Vision needs a huge rework. targets should always be visible, but not always detected on the minimap. This means no disappearing vehicles. Instead players would have to actually look and report what they see to other people through a kind of auto-ping system on anything they press "t" while they have a cursor on it. I know that is more difficult considering how many people ignore the minimap anyways.







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