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Inside the Chieftain's Hatch: Panther


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zloykrolik #21 Posted Jun 24 2016 - 05:21

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View PostThe_Chieftain, on Jun 22 2016 - 23:30, said:

 

I don't recall such...

 

Well then, you should write that article.

stalkervision #22 Posted Jun 24 2016 - 20:01

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still waiting on the second part of that series Chief.

stalkervision #23 Posted Jun 24 2016 - 20:16

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Here is the inside of a actually operating and running Panther with crew for people who don't want to get old before they see his second part. :)

 

  https://www.youtube....h?v=eGBLt5NB3HA

 

  https://www.youtube....h?v=LOFRzHx12Xo



Anlushac11 #24 Posted Jun 27 2016 - 11:26

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View Poststalkervision, on Jun 24 2016 - 14:16, said:

Here is the inside of a actually operating and running Panther with crew for people who don't want to get old before they see his second part. :)

 

  https://www.youtube....h?v=eGBLt5NB3HA

 

  https://www.youtube....h?v=LOFRzHx12Xo

 

Im pretty sure the 1st one is the movie replica built on a T-54/55 hull. Engine even looks like the Soviet V12 (looks like fuel injectors lines are in center but doesnt have access plates on valve covers) For sure is not a Maybach V12.

 

The second one is legit.


Edited by Anlushac11, Jun 27 2016 - 11:32.


stalkervision #25 Posted Jun 27 2016 - 12:54

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View PostAnlushac11, on Jun 27 2016 - 05:26, said:

 

Im pretty sure the 1st one is the movie replica built on a T-54/55 hull. Engine even looks like the Soviet V12 (looks like fuel injectors lines are in center but doesnt have access plates on valve covers) For sure is not a Maybach V12.

 

The second one is legit.

 

  ​ya I noticed that after I posted it. The cannon isn't real I am pretty sure and the turret inside looks a bit funny.      The second one is the real deal.  :)

shapeshifter #26 Posted Jun 28 2016 - 06:12

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Been collecting armour examinations as i find them in microfilm. some armour reports done up by the various nations.

 

Canadian report on Panther 521 captured by Russia

 

http://imgur.com/a/UXL7m

 

British, The development of the Panther

 

http://imgur.com/a/pVoCw

 

British captured Ausf G armour layout

 

Spoiler

 

Another Ausf G

 

Spoiler

 

US examination of an Ausf G

 

http://imgur.com/a/phf72

 

US examination of an Ausf A

 

http://imgur.com/a/F4M6z

 

British armour chart for various marks of Panthers.

 

Spoiler

 

British copy of the russian captured 521

 

Spoiler

 

Note the "updated" figures the British get, I believe they were just sent new measurements from a different Panther the Russians had captured and the British then assumed the first were possibly incorrect. At any rate all these sources show the variation in plate thickness.



Anlushac11 #27 Posted Jul 26 2016 - 23:29

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Thank You for part two. One thing I was interested in finding out I have seen lots of tank commander veterans of all nations talk about fighting unbuttoned unless enemy infantry were about or fighting in a built up area.

 

Was surprised to find Panther Commander did not have a turret traverse override as in Commander had ability to move turret onto target.

 

At 7:51 I am curious as to why when referring to switching the gunners sight from low mag to high mag the camera view switched to the drivers hatch opening on front hull.

 

On April 3rd 1944 Wa Pruef 6 ordered the azimuth ring deleted from Panther's commanders cupola. Eight days later the order was rescinded and tanks produced without it were ordered to have the ring refitted. 

 

This was done to facilitate installation of the FG 1250 Infra red spotlight and image converter.  The IR gear was intended to be introduced on Panther Ausf A's in summer 1944 but by wars end only a few Ausf G's had been fitted with the FG 1250.

 

The Germans had intended to give the gunner his own roof mounted periscope sight for the Ausf F but we all that never happened.

 

The Panther Ausf D's had the slow 360deg in 60 sec spec. Ausf A was fitted with power turret traverse lifted directly from Tiger I which allowed 360deg rotation in 15  seconds. The later engine rpm governor limited rotation to 360deg in 18 sec.

 

 


Edited by Anlushac11, Jul 27 2016 - 00:13.


Sad_But_Drew #28 Posted Jul 27 2016 - 05:46

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Seeing the "pop and pivot" design of the commander's hatch (I understand why this design, besides overhead cover, it avoids the "Mickey Mouse Ear" effect seen on the T-34/85's hatches, making the already high silhouette less obvious).  Was any hatch like this sprung so that locking against the tension held the lid on?  Ordinary hatches had springs to help open them, the Panther's seems "two steps forward with a step or so back".  Especially since the Panther was a bit fire prone..

TankFullOfBourbon #29 Posted Jul 28 2016 - 18:57

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Excellent stuff! 

stalkervision #30 Posted Aug 04 2016 - 20:33

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In the Panzer IV the whole top could be unbolted from the rest of the frame for maintenance. In the panther they used this hatch.

 

 https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=+german+panther+tanks+transmission+repair&view=detail&mid=C524D249173120863A68C524D249173120863A68&FORM=VIRE

 

 



Anlushac11 #31 Posted Aug 04 2016 - 23:05

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Seen video of a Sherman transmission swap. Took two guys about 45 minutes to pull one. They broke track, pulled front sprockets, unbolted transmission cover, attached a chain and used a forklift to lift and pull the transmission, front cover, and final drive out as one unit.

 

Panther took a crew of 6-8 guys about 7 hours to pull transmission out. Transmission only. Final drives came out separately. 



Sad_But_Drew #32 Posted Aug 05 2016 - 03:05

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From this and the French Reports, and a closer look at the actions, (especially Lorraine), I think the Panther may have gotten a bit of a "Top Trumps" reputation.

 

Taken in isolation, the Armor, firepower and mobility outranked contemporary Allied tanks in all categories.  But this reputation does have nearly the sort of battle reports to back it up.  I think that a lot of postwar examiners were seduced by raw numbers and inflated Panther to some sort of super-tank.  I've read articles giving great weight to some of the "nice but not that important" things (like the commander's azimuth ring, though this is the first I heard of the commander's hatch).  There is also the praise of the optics (especially the BMG, but also the main gun) without noting the severe targetacquisition issues involved.  Similarly, their view of the armor tends to treat the upper hull as covering everything, when the turret was MUCH weaker (and you can't hide a turret), and the sides were barely more armor than the Mark IV.  Throw in all the servicing problems and you have something I'd hate to advance on, but wouldn't much worry about coming after me. 

 

Then there's all that ammo in the sponsons (right where the armor is weak)..

 

Did the Germans have something against turret bustles?  The Stowage seemed awful inefficient for such a large tank.  Ammo mostly in awkward places (and the 5th crewman locked in by the radio, so he can't really help),



Anlushac11 #33 Posted Aug 05 2016 - 13:38

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Tiger II's stored ammo in the bustle's...until IIRC it was Minsk or Sandomierz where Tiger II's were penned in turret bustle and ammo caught fire. Crews quickly moved ammo out of bustles and it was stored in "other" places in the hull.

Shanzival #34 Posted Aug 05 2016 - 14:50

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So what fell off during the outtake from the second part?

The_Chieftain #35 Posted Aug 05 2016 - 22:28

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Handle came off the shaft, if I recall.

collimatrix #36 Posted Aug 14 2016 - 04:49

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Curious what the source on the geared steering being the preferred method is.  I could have sworn that I had read that panther drivers were instructed to use the clutch and brake auxiliary steering system whenever possible in order to reduce wear on the fragile geared steering device.

The_Chieftain #37 Posted Aug 14 2016 - 06:33

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I seem to recall it was a translated copy of a German manual as found in the Archives. I'll need to check when I get back to the office computer.




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