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Dance - Can you please start a feedback thread for the new July tourneys?


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HoneyRider #1 Posted Jul 14 2016 - 20:33

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I was one of the ones that posted in your original thread of Changes to July tourneys that we should wait and see what WG had to offer before jumping on the Complain bandwagon. Now that we seen two of the new tourneys - Weekly 5v5 and Summer play, I have the following to comment:

 

Weekly 5v5 vs Skirmish

1. 2 hours per night for 5 nights in a row is a awful lot to ask for a smaller reward than Skirmishes.  Skirmishes were perfect for 3 nights of 2 hour play then a half hour of playoffs for 3 days.

2. The uber teams that represent the top1% of server population will no doubt be in the place to capture 90% of the gold on offer since the payouts for 5000 to 1000 encompass the top 25% of the entries.  Skirmishes at least had the opportunity for the average to above average player to place in the top 30% for the 3 days of group stages which meant at least 1500 day money.  Now these same teams can only hope for best of 500 gold for 2 more days of play.

 

Summer Play

1. Tournament is over a 14 day time frame so can't commit to any other form of team play

2. No gold pay out for group stages at all - not attractive to any of my clan callers

3. All of the gold payout will now go to the top 1% of players on this server as they are the ones who consistently take home 1 to 4th and usually 5th to 8th as well.

 

Again - I am not disparaging anyone for being a good tanker and belonging to the top 1% on this server but WG - you MUST find a way to reach the other 99% of us.

 

So far - the best you have come up with is the Skirmish format.  even with moving more of the gold to playoffs than you had a couple of years ago, AT LEAST the uber tankers couldn't hog more than the top 30% of the field leaving a few gold crumbs for the rest of us placing in 31% to 50%

 

Until WG comes up with some kind of tourney based on seeding by skill level (God forbid the unicorns having to play each OTHER rather than seal clubbing to the gold), please bring the last weekly Skirmish format back for August. 



Wirbelfeld #2 Posted Jul 14 2016 - 20:49

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The reason they cant have things like skirmishes was because people were getting 10-20k gold a week which is insane compared to other regions that do not have such tournies. Im assuming minsk told WGNA to cut it out and so they were forced to dial it back on the tourneys. The skirmishes and weekday warfares wont ever come back. No other region could you literally farm all your gold from tournies while playing like complete garbage. 

Tournaments are supposed to be only for the best of the best, the other 99% shouldnt be getting gold from a business standpoints. Wargaming is no charity, they make their money from people actually buying gold, not playing a couple hours a week and being showered in gold for playing by garbege. Look at the tourneys of other servers, a lot less gold for a lot more people.



Bianca_strega28 #3 Posted Jul 14 2016 - 21:01

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View PostWirbelfeld, on Jul 14 2016 - 12:49, said:

The reason they cant have things like skirmishes was because people were getting 10-20k gold a week which is insane compared to other regions that do not have such tournies. Im assuming minsk told WGNA to cut it out and so they were forced to dial it back on the tourneys. The skirmishes and weekday warfares wont ever come back. No other region could you literally farm all your gold from tournies while playing like complete garbage. 

Tournaments are supposed to be only for the best of the best, the other 99% shouldnt be getting gold from a business standpoints. Wargaming is no charity, they make their money from people actually buying gold, not playing a couple hours a week and being showered in gold for playing by garbege. Look at the tourneys of other servers, a lot less gold for a lot more people.

 

I disagree with the statement that tourneys are supposed to be for the best of the best.  WG already has a vehicle for the best of the best and that is the WGLNA.   A more effective business model would be to have tournaments geared toward the general population to encourage them to play.  There doesn't need to be huge gold payouts.   The problem now is that there IS NO incentive for the average player to do anything other than pubbie battles which is not a team play environment.  WG is missing a huge opportunity here by NOT gearing tournaments to the other 99% of peeps on the server.  If you check the make up of the tourney teams now - it is a very small population of the same gamers on this server that are taking home the 10 to 20K gold per week you speak of, so hardly a dent in WG business model.

 

 



GaussDeath #4 Posted Jul 14 2016 - 22:12

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View PostWirbelfeld, on Jul 14 2016 - 19:49, said:

The reason they cant have things like skirmishes was because people were getting 10-20k gold a week which is insane compared to other regions that do not have such tournies. Im assuming minsk told WGNA to cut it out and so they were forced to dial it back on the tourneys. The skirmishes and weekday warfares wont ever come back. No other region could you literally farm all your gold from tournies while playing like complete garbage. 

Tournaments are supposed to be only for the best of the best, the other 99% shouldnt be getting gold from a business standpoints. Wargaming is no charity, they make their money from people actually buying gold, not playing a couple hours a week and being showered in gold for playing by garbege. Look at the tourneys of other servers, a lot less gold for a lot more people.

 

We have been told repeatedly that this is not about gold. If we choose to not believe that then nothing we say will have any impact anyhow. If we choose to believe what WGNA is saying then a feedback thread is the next logical step. So rather than doing nothing I would prefer to act like what WGNA is saying is the truth and that this has nothing to do with gold payouts (despite the appearances to the contrary). 



Wirbelfeld #5 Posted Jul 14 2016 - 22:43

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View PostBianca_strega28, on Jul 14 2016 - 20:01, said:

 

I disagree with the statement that tourneys are supposed to be for the best of the best.  WG already has a vehicle for the best of the best and that is the WGLNA.   A more effective business model would be to have tournaments geared toward the general population to encourage them to play.  There doesn't need to be huge gold payouts.   The problem now is that there IS NO incentive for the average player to do anything other than pubbie battles which is not a team play environment.  WG is missing a huge opportunity here by NOT gearing tournaments to the other 99% of peeps on the server.  If you check the make up of the tourney teams now - it is a very small population of the same gamers on this server that are taking home the 10 to 20K gold per week you speak of, so hardly a dent in WG business model.

 

 

Look up the definition of a tournament. IT is supposed to be a competition, only the best ones come out with gold. In life, the loser doesnt get a participation award. I know plenty of terrible players that have gotten huge gold prizes from previous tournaments. Any teal player can get 10-20k gold a week, you may not know of people that have gotten that much gold, but I personally know at least 20 people that are about 1400wn8 players who have gotten 10k a week in skirmishes. I'm not sure if you have ever played skirmishes before, but it is incredibly easy to get gold. Pretty much if you show up, you are guaranteed to walk away with some gold every week no matter how bad of a player you are. Right now the tourneys are bad and not what people are used to, naturally, not many people will sign up for them, but if you looked at the composition of past skirmishes, there would be hundreds of people signed up and dozens of people getting 10k gold a week. 

 

 



Trombose #6 Posted Jul 15 2016 - 05:22

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View PostGaussDeath, on Jul 14 2016 - 16:12, said:

 

We have been told repeatedly that this is not about gold. If we choose to not believe that then nothing we say will have any impact anyhow. If we choose to believe what WGNA is saying then a feedback thread is the next logical step. So rather than doing nothing I would prefer to act like what WGNA is saying is the truth and that this has nothing to do with gold payouts (despite the appearances to the contrary). 

 

Yes we where told this had nothing to do with gold, yet the gold has been utterly slashes, Summer Play pays out less than one Skirmish and takes twice as long, the 5v5 tournament pays out less than the Weekday Warfare but you have to play more teams per day.

Platournaments pay out less money to the top winner but ends up giving I believe it was 50 more overall due to paying out two additional spots.

I find it odd that we have been repeatedly assured it has nothing to do with the amount of gold given out when every tournament has had the top winner payout slashed heavily.

 

We where also told by Dance that they would be using July and June to review the feedback from players and tournament attendance to see if they would keep this new formats or not, BUT, Dance has already stated that the old tournaments will not be returning, despite overwhelming negative feedback and no statistics on attendance due to none of the tournaments having been run by the time she said that.



dance210 #7 Posted Jul 15 2016 - 18:08

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View PostHoneyRider, on Jul 14 2016 - 12:33, said:

I was one of the ones that posted in your original thread of Changes to July tourneys that we should wait and see what WG had to offer before jumping on the Complain bandwagon. Now that we seen two of the new tourneys - Weekly 5v5 and Summer play, I have the following to comment:

 

Weekly 5v5 vs Skirmish

1. 2 hours per night for 5 nights in a row is a awful lot to ask for a smaller reward than Skirmishes.  Skirmishes were perfect for 3 nights of 2 hour play then a half hour of playoffs for 3 days.

2. The uber teams that represent the top1% of server population will no doubt be in the place to capture 90% of the gold on offer since the payouts for 5000 to 1000 encompass the top 25% of the entries.  Skirmishes at least had the opportunity for the average to above average player to place in the top 30% for the 3 days of group stages which meant at least 1500 day money.  Now these same teams can only hope for best of 500 gold for 2 more days of play.

 

Summer Play

1. Tournament is over a 14 day time frame so can't commit to any other form of team play

2. No gold pay out for group stages at all - not attractive to any of my clan callers

3. All of the gold payout will now go to the top 1% of players on this server as they are the ones who consistently take home 1 to 4th and usually 5th to 8th as well.

 

Again - I am not disparaging anyone for being a good tanker and belonging to the top 1% on this server but WG - you MUST find a way to reach the other 99% of us.

 

So far - the best you have come up with is the Skirmish format.  even with moving more of the gold to playoffs than you had a couple of years ago, AT LEAST the uber tankers couldn't hog more than the top 30% of the field leaving a few gold crumbs for the rest of us placing in 31% to 50%

 

Until WG comes up with some kind of tourney based on seeding by skill level (God forbid the unicorns having to play each OTHER rather than seal clubbing to the gold), please bring the last weekly Skirmish format back for August. 

Hi HoneyRider,

 

Technically, part of the reason I put up a forum post for the tournaments is to receive feedback (the other reasons are for players to talk about tanks, find teams/teammates or for me to make announcements if something breaks). Having a separate feedback thread could be useful, but I would be looking for very specific feedback, mostly focused on tournament format. Things like time of day, single vs. multi-day tournaments, top heavy prizing to few teams vs. paying out less gold to many teams are useful and can be used. I'm not sure if that would be more useful, or if it would simply turn into a discussion about not earning enough gold.

 

The Summer Play tournament is intended to be more competitive, with the top teams earning the top prizes and the other teams still receiving something for their time. Tournaments are (or at least should be) about more than just gold - it should be about competitive play and working together. It's easier to win a prize in the 1v1 Throwdown and Platournaments - yes, the prize is smaller but so is the effort involved in earning that prize.

 

As for the Skirmish format....I'm assuming you're talking the most recent version, and not the original 64-team single elimination playoff? What exactly about that format did you like...the prizing or the group stage into playoffs?



HoneyRider #8 Posted Jul 15 2016 - 18:55

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Thanks, Dance

 

RE Skirmish Format:  Yes I was referring to the most recent version of Skirmish. 

 

RE: Tourney Feedback - I see that feedback forums often degenerate into off-topic discussion but that could simply be controlled by more selective moderation and simply deleting those threads.  Anyway, I think the larger discussion should be about first agreeing on the purpose of the tourneys. If it's partially to provide an experience that captures the interest of a larger segment of the player base and using tourneys to retain and expand your player base (which in my opinion SHOULD be part of WG business model) then a feedback forum is useful.

 

I have played Skirmish format tourney since you first introduced them and have played the all the various incarnations of them.  The most recent version is the best incarnation you have done and reaches a broad section of the player base.  I don't have actual stats but you'll remember a time when Moguai and I posted Skirmish results nightly and from what I can see currently since I have returned to the game, it's still the same segment of the NA server that takes home the gold. And yes, I agree, it isn't and shouldn't always be about the gold, but it helps as an incentive.  The problem with tourney competition on this server as an esport is that the population is not large enough to do what ALL other sports do which is segment competition based on skill level - football, baseball, soccer, etc - all have division levels based on skill level so that we don't have highschool teams forced to compete with the Super Bowl champs.

 

WGLNA, byt virtue of bronze, silver and gold, IS tiered by skill level.  But all other competition here is not.  So what ends up happening in tourneys is essentially the uber clans and top level teams seal clubbing their way to prizes.  The majority of the NA server, I hazard a guess, doesn't bother with tourney competition simply because they have no hope of successful outcomes and is not an enjoyable experience to continually lose.  I think the WG has a great opportunity to expand player base and tourney involvement by simply providing some kind of play that seeds teams by skill level.  In the absence of that, the current Skirmish format was the best vehicle.

 

And get that this is competition and should be competitive, but again, all real life sport team play is tiered by skill level and there is a natural progression to become a top player.  I continually come up against argument that one will not become better unless one has to play against better teams.  I don't disagree, but being seal clubbed in the first 30 seconds of a match by a team that is so leaps and bounds better teaches nothing.  Playing against a team that is marginally better at least allows the play to progress so that a strat has time to unfold and the teams can learn to flex and react.

 

However, if the purpose of tourneys here is simply to continue to appeal to the best of the best, then it's really pointless to gather any further feedback as is such a small percentage of the server who really cares? lol.



SpectorB #9 Posted Jul 15 2016 - 18:57

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>The Summer Play tournament is intended to be more competitive, with the top teams earning the top prizes and the other teams still receiving something for their time. Tournaments are (or at least should be) about more than just gold - it should be about competitive play and working together.

 

(pure rebuttal, not attacking you, I know you are just doing your job)

How can you say this, and still be looking at 5v5 or summer play? What point is there other than gold for playing BASICALLY professionally? This game offers no other rewards for your accomplishments other than gold and that "sense of accomplishment". Boosters? So a 3 hour booster is equal to over 10 hours of work, *IF* you are good enough to get it? 

 

There are no other "competitive" game modes for this game outside of CW, and that's being screwed over as well.  

 

This game is very punishing, with how much rng is involved in everything you do. How much penetration, how much damage, as well as how accurate your shots are. Why would ANYONE want to keep playing without rewards? That is a VERY ignorant statement. 

 

People want to play together and be competitive for REWARDS. Not for "the fun of it". If there is no end goal, then there is no point. 

 

On another note, I am happy that my team has only lost one battle and drew the other so far... but I feel kinda bad for all the people we stomped, because they will more than likely get nothing for even trying. They shouldn't have been put against us after the first day. There should have been more groups that have independent prize pools, so they had a chance for the amount of WORK and TIME COMMITMENT they put in

 

Seriously though, Leave CW to be the "play together in a competitive way." This is a TOURNAMENT. Here is a definition: 

 

tour·na·ment
ˈtərnəmənt,ˈto͝ornəmənt/
noun
noun: tournament; plural noun: tournaments
  1. 1.
    (in a sport or game) a series of contests between a number of competitors, who compete for an overall prize.
    synonyms: competitioncontestchampionshipmeetingtourneymeetevent,matchround robin
    "a golf tournament"
  2. 2.
    (in the Middle Ages) a sporting event in which two knights (or two groups of knights) jousted on horseback with blunted weapons, each trying to knock the other off, the winner receiving a prize.
    synonyms: jousttilt
    the lists
    "a knight preparing for a tournament"

     

    If there are NO PRIZES, then there is NO POINT. If the prizes are not worth the time invested, people wont play them.

    Its Simple. If you want your butterflies and gumdrops "It shouldn't be about the gold" Then toss tournaments all together and force everyone to play low tier and mid tier CW.


Edited by SpectorB, Jul 15 2016 - 19:09.


dance210 #10 Posted Jul 15 2016 - 20:10

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View PostHoneyRider, on Jul 15 2016 - 10:55, said:

Thanks, Dance

 

RE Skirmish Format:  Yes I was referring to the most recent version of Skirmish. 

 

RE: Tourney Feedback - I see that feedback forums often degenerate into off-topic discussion but that could simply be controlled by more selective moderation and simply deleting those threads.  Anyway, I think the larger discussion should be about first agreeing on the purpose of the tourneys. If it's partially to provide an experience that captures the interest of a larger segment of the player base and using tourneys to retain and expand your player base (which in my opinion SHOULD be part of WG business model) then a feedback forum is useful.

 

I have played Skirmish format tourney since you first introduced them and have played the all the various incarnations of them.  The most recent version is the best incarnation you have done and reaches a broad section of the player base.  I don't have actual stats but you'll remember a time when Moguai and I posted Skirmish results nightly and from what I can see currently since I have returned to the game, it's still the same segment of the NA server that takes home the gold. And yes, I agree, it isn't and shouldn't always be about the gold, but it helps as an incentive.  The problem with tourney competition on this server as an esport is that the population is not large enough to do what ALL other sports do which is segment competition based on skill level - football, baseball, soccer, etc - all have division levels based on skill level so that we don't have highschool teams forced to compete with the Super Bowl champs.

 

WGLNA, byt virtue of bronze, silver and gold, IS tiered by skill level.  But all other competition here is not.  So what ends up happening in tourneys is essentially the uber clans and top level teams seal clubbing their way to prizes.  The majority of the NA server, I hazard a guess, doesn't bother with tourney competition simply because they have no hope of successful outcomes and is not an enjoyable experience to continually lose.  I think the WG has a great opportunity to expand player base and tourney involvement by simply providing some kind of play that seeds teams by skill level.  In the absence of that, the current Skirmish format was the best vehicle.

 

And get that this is competition and should be competitive, but again, all real life sport team play is tiered by skill level and there is a natural progression to become a top player.  I continually come up against argument that one will not become better unless one has to play against better teams.  I don't disagree, but being seal clubbed in the first 30 seconds of a match by a team that is so leaps and bounds better teaches nothing.  Playing against a team that is marginally better at least allows the play to progress so that a strat has time to unfold and the teams can learn to flex and react.

 

However, if the purpose of tourneys here is simply to continue to appeal to the best of the best, then it's really pointless to gather any further feedback as is such a small percentage of the server who really cares? lol.

 

Thanks for your comments :)

 

I encourage player's to leave feedback in the forum threads or to start their own. I follow every topic that I create, so I read everything, even if I don't always comment. If I set up a feedback post for July, it's unlikely to happen until next week, so the Summer Play tournament will begin.

 

The issue with the newer Skirmish format is that it relied on having an unlimited amount of gold and/or other prizes to give out. On a global level, prizing has been reduced, which means that "gold prize faucet" isn't available. I could run the same format (group stage into single elimination playoff) but the prizes would look much different. It's actually probably easier to pay out gold to more teams using all group stage rounds or only a single elimination playoff bracket.

 

Tournaments can serve various functions. We have WGL - the best of the best facing each other, with the top teams facing other regions. WGL is also that tiered progression that you are looking for. We have the Summer Play tournament for July - a more competitive, casual tournament with gold mostly for the top teams. And we have our other tournaments with lower top prizes that pay out deep, with the 1v1s being the easiest to join as a new tourney player (since you don't need a team). We try to set up the different tournaments to encourage the better teams to progress to the more competitive tournaments, which doesn't always happen.

 

As for seeding for tournaments based on skill level....well, we're working on that ;)



A_FIELD_MARSHAL #11 Posted Jul 15 2016 - 20:26

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View Postdance210, on Jul 15 2016 - 20:10, said:

 

Thanks for your comments :)

 

I encourage player's to leave feedback in the forum threads or to start their own. I follow every topic that I create, so I read everything, even if I don't always comment. If I set up a feedback post for July, it's unlikely to happen until next week, so the Summer Play tournament will begin.

 

The issue with the newer Skirmish format is that it relied on having an unlimited amount of gold and/or other prizes to give out. On a global level, prizing has been reduced, which means that "gold prize faucet" isn't available. I could run the same format (group stage into single elimination playoff) but the prizes would look much different. It's actually probably easier to pay out gold to more teams using all group stage rounds or only a single elimination playoff bracket.

 

Tournaments can serve various functions. We have WGL - the best of the best facing each other, with the top teams facing other regions. WGL is also that tiered progression that you are looking for. We have the Summer Play tournament for July - a more competitive, casual tournament with gold mostly for the top teams. And we have our other tournaments with lower top prizes that pay out deep, with the 1v1s being the easiest to join as a new tourney player (since you don't need a team). We try to set up the different tournaments to encourage the better teams to progress to the more competitive tournaments, which doesn't always happen.

 

As for seeding for tournaments based on skill level....well, we're working on that ;)

 

Will the regular Skrmish/Weekday Warfare and Daily Stand tos be returning for August?   I have stopped doing this month tournys as they are a waste of time as gold income has been reduced. 

 

Why change was wasnt broke? You claim this change isnt due to gold you gave out but why is gold prizing reduced across the board then?

Also Doing 10 hours of gameplay to earn usless Personal Reserves isnt a reward.


Edited by A_FIELD_MARSHAL, Jul 15 2016 - 20:26.


Trombose #12 Posted Jul 15 2016 - 20:30

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View Postdance210, on Jul 15 2016 - 14:10, said:

 

Thanks for your comments :)

 

I encourage player's to leave feedback in the forum threads or to start their own. I follow every topic that I create, so I read everything, even if I don't always comment. If I set up a feedback post for July, it's unlikely to happen until next week, so the Summer Play tournament will begin.

 

The issue with the newer Skirmish format is that it relied on having an unlimited amount of gold and/or other prizes to give out. On a global level, prizing has been reduced, which means that "gold prize faucet" isn't available. I could run the same format (group stage into single elimination playoff) but the prizes would look much different. It's actually probably easier to pay out gold to more teams using all group stage rounds or only a single elimination playoff bracket.

 

Tournaments can serve various functions. We have WGL - the best of the best facing each other, with the top teams facing other regions. WGL is also that tiered progression that you are looking for. We have the Summer Play tournament for July - a more competitive, casual tournament with gold mostly for the top teams. And we have our other tournaments with lower top prizes that pay out deep, with the 1v1s being the easiest to join as a new tourney player (since you don't need a team). We try to set up the different tournaments to encourage the better teams to progress to the more competitive tournaments, which doesn't always happen.

 

As for seeding for tournaments based on skill level....well, we're working on that ;)

 

I like how you stated the changes had nothing to do with gold yet you basically confirmed that is one of the major reasons right here, and that feedback and tournament statistics would decide if you kept the current changes, yet before ever running a single one of the new tournaments and with nothing but overwhelmingly negative feedback you stated that the old tournaments would not be returning.

Personally I could not care less about gold being cut, I care about the lying (I've made so much gold that I no longer need the gold), however that doesn't mean I want to play a longer for less reward (5v5 "weekly" tournament), or play twice as long as a skirmish with a much smaller chance at getting anything out of it (summer play).

You guys could have slashed the gold in half and then offered other incentives, such as credits (and no I am not talking about that insultingly small amount you used to get from Weekday Warfare), free XP, and more boosters (boosters make people play, people that play are more likely to buy gold). But instead you slashed the gold in half and made the tournaments longer, more difficult and half as often...

 

You wouldn't have gotten nearly as much negative feedback or criticism if you guys had just been upfront and honest with us about the reasons for the changes from the get go, instead we get nothing but lies and false hope.

 

As for the last bit there, bringing back seeding based upon skill level ... you mean that thing that WG tried for a little while and then had to revert because the players hated it and attendance suffered? [sarcasm]Seems like a great change....[/sarcasm]


Edited by ThinkingOfYou, Jul 15 2016 - 20:36.


A_FIELD_MARSHAL #13 Posted Jul 15 2016 - 20:30

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View Postdance210, on Jul 15 2016 - 18:08, said:

Hi HoneyRider,

 

Technically, part of the reason I put up a forum post for the tournaments is to receive feedback (the other reasons are for players to talk about tanks, find teams/teammates or for me to make announcements if something breaks). Having a separate feedback thread could be useful, but I would be looking for very specific feedback, mostly focused on tournament format. Things like time of day, single vs. multi-day tournaments, top heavy prizing to few teams vs. paying out less gold to many teams are useful and can be used. I'm not sure if that would be more useful, or if it would simply turn into a discussion about not earning enough gold.

 

The Summer Play tournament is intended to be more competitive, with the top teams earning the top prizes and the other teams still receiving something for their time. Tournaments are (or at least should be) about more than just gold - it should be about competitive play and working together. It's easier to win a prize in the 1v1 Throwdown and Platournaments - yes, the prize is smaller but so is the effort involved in earning that prize.

 

As for the Skirmish format....I'm assuming you're talking the most recent version, and not the original 64-team single elimination playoff? What exactly about that format did you like...the prizing or the group stage into playoffs?

The current Skrmish format was fine. If you did well during group play you got rewarded even if you dident make it far into the elimination part. This Summer Play has no tangable reward. Unless you make it to the top you get nothing for the work you put in. Personal Reserves should NOT be the primary reward. Atleast offer some Prem time if you win Half of Group stage play matches with higher prem time as more you won. 



A_FIELD_MARSHAL #14 Posted Jul 15 2016 - 20:36

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View Postdance210, on Jul 15 2016 - 20:10, said:

 

Thanks for your comments :)

 

I encourage player's to leave feedback in the forum threads or to start their own. I follow every topic that I create, so I read everything, even if I don't always comment. If I set up a feedback post for July, it's unlikely to happen until next week, so the Summer Play tournament will begin.

 

The issue with the newer Skirmish format is that it relied on having an unlimited amount of gold and/or other prizes to give out. On a global level, prizing has been reduced, which means that "gold prize faucet" isn't available. I could run the same format (group stage into single elimination playoff) but the prizes would look much different. It's actually probably easier to pay out gold to more teams using all group stage rounds or only a single elimination playoff bracket.

 

Tournaments can serve various functions. We have WGL - the best of the best facing each other, with the top teams facing other regions. WGL is also that tiered progression that you are looking for. We have the Summer Play tournament for July - a more competitive, casual tournament with gold mostly for the top teams. And we have our other tournaments with lower top prizes that pay out deep, with the 1v1s being the easiest to join as a new tourney player (since you don't need a team). We try to set up the different tournaments to encourage the better teams to progress to the more competitive tournaments, which doesn't always happen.

 

As for seeding for tournaments based on skill level....well, we're working on that ;)

 

But I thought Gold wasnt the issue as you yourself has said? You said this in the other thread

Block Quote

 As for the gold...if we wanted to simply cut the gold, we would. There would be no need to change the tournaments around just to limit the amount of gold that we give away.

 

Block Quote

 The purpose behind the change for July isn't to cut the amount of gold; it is to try something new. Tournaments have been run basically the same way for a while - meaning, weekly and now daily tournaments, with a few special event tournaments thrown in. I've probably been the biggest supporter of continuing running a variety of tournaments. For July, we are trying something different: running fewer tournaments but putting more hype behind them. Could it fail horribly? Of course. Then again, once all the tournaments go live, it could succeed. What's cool is that if it doesn't seem to be working, we could always add stuff back in.

 

Can you PLEASE be honest. The one thing I hate in life is Liars. 


This is why the NA Server is dying is due to lies being made at the top. If you said at the start of this that we been giving out too much gold I would of accepted it. But saying one thing and then saying the oppsite shows it was about the gold this whole time. 

 

Can you please give the honest TRUTH. Was it about the Gold or not. 

 


Edited by A_FIELD_MARSHAL, Jul 15 2016 - 20:39.


HoneyRider #15 Posted Jul 15 2016 - 21:01

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I don't have a problem with adjusting gold rewards in tourneys.  I work with budgets for a living.  If there is a finite amount to be spread among tourneys, then it behooves we as the consumer to provide feedback on how best to allot it.  We need to be constructive in this and partner WITH Dance.  It doesn't matter at this point if it was about the gold or not.  What matters is that we come out with a range of tournaments and competitive play that suits the majority of us and allows for growth on the server.  It benefits ALL of us if the amount of active players on the NA server grows steadily - matchmaking improves, team play improves, tourney participation increases........  I am just of the opinion that a range of tournaments that appeal to not just the best of the best can accomplish this.  I run a tourney clan and have been at this for a few years now.  Dance does a good job within the confines of the boundaries that she is given.  Flaming her for it does not help.

 

Dance - for Skirmishes  - the gold splits can be adjusted based on the budget you're given.  For example - instead of publishing the flat rate for placement prizes, you can do a simple percentage formula based on the amount of entrants divided into the prize pool and published once entrance is closed and group stage roster is posted.  It's still the same allotment for day gold, for example, but based on a percentage of the available prize pool.  That way you have control over gold budget.  The prize pool could be established based on number of entrants in relation to server population.  Would be an honour system on WG part to increase prize pool if it was successful in attracting player base, improving player retention and adding to revenue stream for WG. Most of the existing prizes in various tournaments have been top heavy to 1, 2, 3 placements for example.  I don't think anyone here would be unhappy with adjustments in that area.

 

I think it benefits all of us to establish and continue the dialogue in a reasonable manner.



dance210 #16 Posted Jul 15 2016 - 21:09

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View PostA_FIELD_MARSHAL, on Jul 15 2016 - 12:36, said:

 

But I thought Gold wasnt the issue as you yourself has said? You said this in the other thread

 

 

Can you PLEASE be honest. The one thing I hate in life is Liars. 


This is why the NA Server is dying is due to lies being made at the top. If you said at the start of this that we been giving out too much gold I would of accepted it. But saying one thing and then saying the oppsite shows it was about the gold this whole time. 

 

Can you please give the honest TRUTH. Was it about the Gold or not. 

 

I said that the schedule change wasn't due to gold, and it wasn't. The schedule change was because my boss wanted to see what would happen if fewer tournaments were run. There was also supposed to be another part to it, that for whatever reason wasn't able to happen (and no, I'm not happy about that or that I can't get the final prize for the Summer Play tournament finalized...).

 

The gold was a global decree and all regions were hit. EU has a top prize for a one day tournament of 250 gold; RU has a group stage into playoffs with a 1st place prize of 1,500 gold. I'm trying really hard to keep them from looking at NA and thinking those prizes should come here.

 

The honest truth is I have never lied to you guys. Yes, there are times I can't tell you everything - my job doesn't allow me to tell you everything. I will tell you what I can, when I can. Sometimes, those things change and I can't always update you on those changes. I am trying to give you as many tournaments as I can and give out the most that I can.

 

To answer your first question, no they will not be returning. Why? Because someone has a new vision for how tournaments should work, and how the previous tournaments were run no longer fit the vision (or the new naming scheme that they want to go with) and honestly I would rather retire them than turn them into something else. If you mean will there be more one day and multi-day tournaments run during the month, hopefully at early and alter times, then the answer is yes.

 

View PostHoneyRider, on Jul 15 2016 - 13:01, said:

I don't have a problem with adjusting gold rewards in tourneys.  I work with budgets for a living.  If there is a finite amount to be spread among tourneys, then it behooves we as the consumer to provide feedback on how best to allot it.  We need to be constructive in this and partner WITH Dance.  It doesn't matter at this point if it was about the gold or not.  What matters is that we come out with a range of tournaments and competitive play that suits the majority of us and allows for growth on the server.  It benefits ALL of us if the amount of active players on the NA server grows steadily - matchmaking improves, team play improves, tourney participation increases........  I am just of the opinion that a range of tournaments that appeal to not just the best of the best can accomplish this.  I run a tourney clan and have been at this for a few years now.  Dance does a good job within the confines of the boundaries that she is given.  Flaming her for it does not help.

 

Dance - for Skirmishes  - the gold splits can be adjusted based on the budget you're given.  For example - instead of publishing the flat rate for placement prizes, you can do a simple percentage formula based on the amount of entrants divided into the prize pool and published once entrance is closed and group stage roster is posted.  It's still the same allotment for day gold, for example, but based on a percentage of the available prize pool.  That way you have control over gold budget.  The prize pool could be established based on number of entrants in relation to server population.  Would be an honour system on WG part to increase prize pool if it was successful in attracting player base, improving player retention and adding to revenue stream for WG. Most of the existing prizes in various tournaments have been top heavy to 1, 2, 3 placements for example.  I don't think anyone here would be unhappy with adjustments in that area.

 

I think it benefits all of us to establish and continue the dialogue in a reasonable manner.

I couldn't figure out a scaling prize structure for July because it needed to be designed over the 4th of July weekend. I'm hoping to have scaling prizes, where more teams equal more prizing (EU called them stretch goals). It's a matter of making sure I have all the kinks worked out, that it's understandable and that it gets approved.



HoneyRider #17 Posted Jul 15 2016 - 23:29

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Thanks for taking the time to respond Dance.  Infinitely sorry to see the Skirmishes gone for good.   The Weekly and Summer play tourneys that posted for July are definitely not a fit for anyone in my clan.  I hope WG can come up with something similar to the Skirmish format for a weekly event.  If not - I see the demise of tourney clans such as mine which is really too bad.  My officers and I work very hard to provide a positive gaming experience for our members, we provide training from WGLNA Pro's past and present, we stick to a code of ethics.  One would hope that WG would want to encourage clans like this as it helps to build their player base.  But - when it becomes obvious that WG doesn't really care about that, I imagine we move along.

 

GL Dance and thanks again.



President_John_H_Eden #18 Posted Jul 15 2016 - 23:32

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Look at the current tournaments Dance, none of the top tournament teams are playing anymore because it simply isn't worth the time. Look at Canoodian's team and NO ZUO NO DIE, both top tourney teams that no longer participate in this gig that WG calls tournaments. 

A_FIELD_MARSHAL #19 Posted Jul 16 2016 - 00:03

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View Postdance210, on Jul 15 2016 - 21:09, said:

I said that the schedule change wasn't due to gold, and it wasn't. The schedule change was because my boss wanted to see what would happen if fewer tournaments were run. There was also supposed to be another part to it, that for whatever reason wasn't able to happen (and no, I'm not happy about that or that I can't get the final prize for the Summer Play tournament finalized...).

 

The gold was a global decree and all regions were hit. EU has a top prize for a one day tournament of 250 gold; RU has a group stage into playoffs with a 1st place prize of 1,500 gold. I'm trying really hard to keep them from looking at NA and thinking those prizes should come here.

 

The honest truth is I have never lied to you guys. Yes, there are times I can't tell you everything - my job doesn't allow me to tell you everything. I will tell you what I can, when I can. Sometimes, those things change and I can't always update you on those changes. I am trying to give you as many tournaments as I can and give out the most that I can.

 

To answer your first question, no they will not be returning. Why? Because someone has a new vision for how tournaments should work, and how the previous tournaments were run no longer fit the vision (or the new naming scheme that they want to go with) and honestly I would rather retire them than turn them into something else. If you mean will there be more one day and multi-day tournaments run during the month, hopefully at early and alter times, then the answer is yes.

 

I couldn't figure out a scaling prize structure for July because it needed to be designed over the 4th of July weekend. I'm hoping to have scaling prizes, where more teams equal more prizing (EU called them stretch goals). It's a matter of making sure I have all the kinks worked out, that it's understandable and that it gets approved.

Thanks for the info. So what do you have planned for Aug?

 

Its a shame Skirmish is no longer. The Daily and Weekly Tournies is why I still play anymore. This is final nail in the coffin. As CW is a joke and people turned for tournies for entertainment and gold income. 

 

I will stay around if those tournies are worthwhile as in decent rewards for time invested and not rewarded with usless Personal Reserves. 



__xXKingXx__ #20 Posted Jul 16 2016 - 00:06

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ffs...




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