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Tier 6 CW hate - please explain

CW tier6 clans

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Banish #41 Posted Jul 20 2016 - 00:38

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For the reasons explained in this post.

 

I recommended to Wargaming that multi-staged Clan Wars should be:

  • 10 versus 10 tier VIII (For training new players)
  • 10 versus 10 tier X (Helps growing clans negate tank locking and lower activity)
  • 15 versus 15 tier X (End game)

 

Tier VI has two fundamental problems;

  • Tier VI is an unbalanced tier
  • Two tanks have the ability to completely negate a push, which promotes camping.

 

View Post_Mik_, on Jul 19 2016 - 15:36, said:

For example, passive scouting is a viable option in tier 6 that offers a usable form of map control. However, passive scouting is much less effective at higher tiers due to the often-cited view range creep at higher tiers. Obviously, we have little insight into what would be a perfect game in WGs eyes. Perhaps we should ask "Is passive scouting meant to be part of the game? Or is it a form of play that exists due to the circumstances of the tier 6 meta?"

 

Passive scouting plays a large role in tier X clan wars, and is used in almost every strategy. The passive scout usually changes role once they are no longer being useful, so they are not 'passive' for the entire game but passive for when the situation allows them to be.



Georgietheprincess #42 Posted Jul 20 2016 - 01:39

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View Post_Mik_, on Jul 19 2016 - 15:56, said:

 

I think this makes the most sense so far. People were already used to one type of CW, were promised a CW that would help expand interest, and got a completely different meta that didn't expand interest in the original. 

 

So, WG was trying to make CW easier to climb into and instead split it up?

 

Pretty much, and this has had some pretty bad effects as a whole on cw, most of which are pretty obvious if you've looked at the global map recently.

 

Edit: People have also been touching on that tier 6 is an unbalanced tier, which doesn't help. But even if it was balanced, had more variety in both tanks used and tank type, its still simply too low a tier with too few players involved to every really capture a true cw battle. Even if tier 6 was more balanced it wouldn't work as a competitive tier and I think that's important to note. 


Edited by Georgietheprincess, Jul 20 2016 - 01:44.


Schwere_Panzer_131 #43 Posted Jul 20 2016 - 04:54

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What people fail to understand that, tier 6 is a great place to start for beginning clans to learn the maps, battle calling, focus firing, team management, etc...

It's also beneficial to clans that do not have the numbers to participate in higher tier CW. There is clans that have issues fielding one 7 man team let alone trying to field 10-15 in the higher tiers. Then there's the laid back clans such as mine that are spontaneous, meaning 1 night I could have 25 people and the next night have 14. So it's not beneficial for me to even try tier 8 or 10. Although I could defend 1 piece of property at the higher tiers, what would be the sense in that?



Piplup_ #44 Posted Jul 20 2016 - 06:43

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The biggest issue with tier 6 imo is the lack of forward progression. Nothing in tier 6 carries over to tier 8 and 10 when it comes to strats. Some strats for tier 8 and 10 can be exchanged with each other with some modifications, so a tier 8 clan can progress to tier 10, and a tier 10 clan can regress to tier 8, but 6 has no such thing.

 

Also tier 6 relies a lot less on skill, and a lot more on rng compared to 8 and 10.

 

Those 2 reasons are imo why no one respects tier 6 clan wars, that and elitism, but elitism aside there are legitimate reasons why people do not like tier 6.



Banish #45 Posted Jul 20 2016 - 17:42

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View Postcranium2012, on Jul 19 2016 - 23:54, said:

What people fail to understand that, tier 6 is a great place to start for beginning clans to learn the maps, battle calling, focus firing, team management, etc...

It's also beneficial to clans that do not have the numbers to participate in higher tier CW. There is clans that have issues fielding one 7 man team let alone trying to field 10-15 in the higher tiers. Then there's the laid back clans such as mine that are spontaneous, meaning 1 night I could have 25 people and the next night have 14. So it's not beneficial for me to even try tier 8 or 10. Although I could defend 1 piece of property at the higher tiers, what would be the sense in that?

 

This is simply not true.

 

The goal of tier VI clan wars is to get clans ready for tier VIII which in turn prepares them for tier X. While good in theory, in practice and has been explained to death multiple threads is not the case.

Clan Wars is supposed to be end-game content, if a clan has activity problems at that level they should not be in Clan Wars. Strongholds are supposed to serve that purpose as very few clans take tier VI Strongholds seriously.



enjineer #46 Posted Jul 20 2016 - 19:25

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View PostCanOfTomatoes, on Jul 19 2016 - 13:52, said:

 

So why do all the elite fanboys say play tier 6 till you learn to play? It isnt relevant to anything you see at tier 8 and up...just another [edited]myth.

 

Playing tier 6 in pubs to learn game mechanics isn't remotely related to playing CW.

_Marine #47 Posted Jul 20 2016 - 19:33

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View Postcranium2012, on Jul 19 2016 - 22:54, said:

What people fail to understand that, tier 6 is a great place to start for beginning clans to learn the maps, battle calling, focus firing, team management, etc...

It's also beneficial to clans that do not have the numbers to participate in higher tier CW. There is clans that have issues fielding one 7 man team let alone trying to field 10-15 in the higher tiers. Then there's the laid back clans such as mine that are spontaneous, meaning 1 night I could have 25 people and the next night have 14. So it's not beneficial for me to even try tier 8 or 10. Although I could defend 1 piece of property at the higher tiers, what would be the sense in that?

 

The only thing Tier 6 can teach is focus fire and an attempt at moving in a group. 

Strats wont and cant carry over. Theres very little roll-use, LTs and MT's are interchangeable and arty has 0 impact. If you cant field 12 players (min to play 15v15) then you shouldnt be partaking in CW in the first place. 

 

At the very best, Tier 6 CW is supposed to want to make players go for more in the higher tiers. At its current state (the worst) you're encouraging bad team play, bad strats, bad meta, bad management, and more bad play. 



MUMBLESRUMBLES #48 Posted Jul 24 2016 - 15:11

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because the Cromwell takes over. you cant even enjoy bringing in another tank to enjoy the game because you know the croms will destroy you... what needs to be done is make a tier 5 game only and tier 7 game only and let the croms play with themselves...

Silvers_ #49 Posted Jul 24 2016 - 15:45

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View Postmumblecorefilms, on Jul 24 2016 - 08:11, said:

because the Cromwell takes over. you cant even enjoy bringing in another tank to enjoy the game because you know the croms will destroy you... what needs to be done is make a tier 5 game only and tier 7 game only and let the croms play with themselves...

 

LOL so a T5 and T7 CW? you have got to be joking. The server population can barely support 6, 8 and 10 and you want fragment it even more into 5 and 7? Heck why not make a T9 CW and T3 while you are at it?

 

What people fail to realize is that in terms of an MMORPG (I.E WoW, etc) T6 is supposed to be the entry dungeon, 8 the mid level one and 10 the end game raid. The goal is to get to the end game raid not camp over and over at the entry raid.



Tolos #50 Posted Jul 24 2016 - 16:09

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View Postmumblecorefilms, on Jul 24 2016 - 14:11, said:

because the Cromwell takes over. you cant even enjoy bringing in another tank to enjoy the game because you know the croms will destroy you... what needs to be done is make a tier 5 game only and tier 7 game only and let the croms play with themselves...

 

What a monumentally stupid idea.

vonshaunus #51 Posted Aug 14 2016 - 06:03

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People got mad about t6 clan wars originally because they set up the map so unless you were a large high level clan you couldnt even play t10 wars. Thousands of players spent years of time, effort (and money) to get a good tier 10 tank roster to play clan wars.. only to get told 'oh t10 is now only for the best clans, you go play in tin-toy tanks like good children'

 

That's why its [edited].

 

That said.. a lot of people do like it, it is cheaper, faster and games can be fun. T6 and 8 wars is a good OPTION, Just t10 needs to be available as a realistic option for all clans who can raise 15 in a team.



SgtKittyKiller #52 Posted Aug 19 2016 - 06:34

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I would say from a clan with about an 80% wr in CW and strongholds for t6 there are strats that are involved but for the most part we fight clans who don't know what they are doing so it is easy to win almost every game. Deep into the season every player knows the call way in advance making the matches much simpler. "Top" clans who assume they can always win by just yoloing are wrong many t10 and t8 clans have attacked us expecting an easy win but honestly you playing and solo carrying can be a huge part of t6 CW. I do agree adding more tanks in a 10v10 would make it more competitive and harder for us to win and win.

Windoge8 #53 Posted Aug 19 2016 - 15:06

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At 7x7, the game is no longer about map control, it's about blobbing up and moving fast. Find them, kill them. Period. That's strategically one dimensional and boring to an extreme.

 

We run fastbois stronks and I absolutely detest them. I only do it when I'm super hard up for credits or just want to kick back and have some informal fun with clan mates. We all know the drill for each map. Find them, kill them. If they turtle, try a few things to break it and if that does not work who cares yolo in and move on to the next match. It might be bit different in the clan wars format, but not much.

 

15x15 is about map control, because you have enough resources for it, and so the game becomes significantly more strategic and as a result, more interesting. In addition, higher tier tanks are more capable with better vision, gun handling, etc. and so further increase the level of strategic play.



M1A1_Tanker #54 Posted Aug 22 2016 - 14:55

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I have some feelings on this issue. 

 

1st off is my clan has been around for about 3 years now. We competed for 2 years or so on both of the old Tier 10 maps.

Id like to note that even back then the uber clans stuck to the North American map and the lower clans would be better off playing the smaller and less desirable map Arctic Region map.

 

When the map split to tier 10, 8, and 6 my clan was faced with a decision. Continue to play on a much smaller tier 10 map or move to the tier 8's or 6's. This was a clan decision and all members were involved in the discussion, as a group the decision was made to go down to tier 6. The former commander was not happy with this decision and decided to leave with a few other members. 

 

I was left holding the clan and everyone was now asking me "ok whats next M1"

 

So for me the tier 6 map was both a learning ground as well as a place I could find a spot for my clan as we build upon what was left. I have played in over 500 tier 10 CWs and called at least 300 of those. The switch to tier 6 was rough at first I brought the tier 10 mentality of strats and training's... quickly I learned that was a mistake.

 

I disagree that tier 6 is for scrub players. It is a place for lower clans to go to play on a more competitive level. It is a place for good solid clans to learn the ins and outs of the global. It also introduces newer clans how to diplo which we all know is an absolute must to stay on any land for long. 

 

Lastly id like to address the meta for tier 6 CW and strongholds. and this may just be the best thread to do it. 

 

Meta pre OI

Crommys rush ling style with perhaps a 37 or two. Fast tactics FOCUS FIRE and evade or possible cap.( we all know caps dont earn boxes)

 

Meta post OI

Crommys rush ling style with perhaps a 37 or two. Fast tactics FOCUS FIRE and evade or possible cap.... or so they thought

 

The OIs introduction was a well thought out and pre determined destiny to ADVANCE the meta game at tier 6. The mindset that uber clans have is to run as many as possible win or lose to earn cerdits. smart but they get pissed when a clan runs some OIs because they can no longer ling rush however they often still do. 

 

My clan loves Tier 6 because it is fun we win and we are not looking to be the biggest kids on the block but the community that a clan can offer. Call us SCRUBS and [edited]TERS. because the unicorn tears taste like gumdrops and jellybeans and we drink them by the bucket. 

 

Introduce an OP heavy with a derp that can 1 shot other heavies was brilliant KUDOS to Wargaming . As for the uber ling rushes... better increase your meta game unicorns because they are not going away.... cry as you may.

 

 

 

 

 



BoilerBandsman #55 Posted Aug 22 2016 - 20:17

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So basically you're here to glory in your newfound ability to steal wins with an OP RNG machine rather than your own skill? How exactly is that satisfying?

 

What do you do if a clan waits you out, by the way? You can't leave your cap in OIs without getting capped out. (Which does earn boxes, btw. All T6 SHs are worth 100 boxes regardless of how the match plays out. You don't even understand the mechanics you're spouting off about.) The only way an OI strat wins outside pure city maps is if the enemy team decides they'd rather lose than waste 15 minutes of their time. That's not you winning, that's the WoT version of poopsocking.



memegene #56 Posted Aug 22 2016 - 23:23

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View Postflatstiger69, on Jul 19 2016 - 12:40, said:

Remember, most of the more experienced players started way back when it was tier 10 or nothing. Stepping back to a tier 6 after 2 or 3 years of tier 10 clam wars is like being a pro football player being told he had to go back to his high school junior varsity team

 

I started in VPG with obj140, it was awesome. Sure we werent very good. But we werent attacking G. We fought same level clans. We still managed to win more than we lost. It encouraged you to get a T10 so you could play CWs. You getting T10s was a major income boost for WG. They have shifted the economy to Premium rounds and new Premium tanks. It was probably bound to happen as they start to run out of content. 

 

View PostCanOfTomatoes, on Jul 19 2016 - 12:52, said:

 

So why do all the elite fanboys say play tier 6 till you learn to play? It isnt relevant to anything you see at tier 8 and up...just another [edited]myth.

 

Learn play in pubs at T6. The game mechanics start to mature at that level. You need crew skills (6th sense) and an understanding of how each map plays before progressing on.

However Pubs has many play styles that dont work in CWs. Focus fire translates but due to the lack of trust it is difficult to use HP sharing, gun line, pushing a corner tactics in pubs. 

 

 



epeon #57 Posted Nov 07 2016 - 21:40

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My biggest dislike of WOT is being two tiers down.  It is just not fun.  Every time I am in that situation I think, "why am I playing this game?"

Georgietheprincess #58 Posted Nov 08 2016 - 23:56

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View Postepeon, on Nov 07 2016 - 15:40, said:

My biggest dislike of WOT is being two tiers down.  It is just not fun.  Every time I am in that situation I think, "why am I playing this game?"

 

that has literally nothing to do with the thread.

Bavor #59 Posted Nov 13 2016 - 18:37

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View Post_Marine, on Jul 20 2016 - 13:33, said:

The only thing Tier 6 can teach is focus fire and an attempt at moving in a group. 

 

Right there that makes tier 6 clan wars irrelevant as a teaching tool in my opinion.  Almost all of the things tier 6 clan wars teaches can be learned in tier 6 stronghold skirmish battles.  

 

Block Quote

 Strats wont and cant carry over. Theres very little roll-use, LTs and MT's are interchangeable and arty has 0 impact. If you cant field 12 players (min to play 15v15) then you shouldnt be partaking in CW in the first place. 

 

True, its not until tier 8 that players learn more about strats and tank composition.  However tier 8 clan wars should have more tanks.  Having 15v15 for tier 8 clan wars would teach clans more about tier 10 strats and team composition.  

 

Also, some players say that running tier 8 clan wars costs less than running tier 10 clan wars.  However when you look at the cost of premium ammo there is very little difference between many tier 8 and tier 10 tanks.  The cost of premium consumables is the same between tier 8 and tier 10.  The only significant difference is tank repair costs.  

 

Block Quote

 At the very best, Tier 6 CW is supposed to want to make players go for more in the higher tiers. At its current state (the worst) you're encouraging bad team play, bad strats, bad meta, bad management, and more bad play. 

 

To discourage clans sitting on the tier 6 map, gold income on tier 6 should be reduced to next to nothing or any clan who holds land on the tier 6 map for more than 14 days should have all their province's gold income reduced to zero unless they are off the map for more than 30 days.  This will encourage tier 6 clans to try tier 8 clan wars for a month at a time.

 



Yankee #60 Posted Nov 14 2016 - 21:41

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Because you can camp 6 heavies on the redline and win





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