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M4 Sherman vs German 88mm Anti-Tank/Flak Gun -


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Swoony #1 Posted Aug 26 2016 - 22:03

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That's what an M4 Sherman looks like after being hit and penetrated by a German 88mm Anti-Tank/Flak Gun -

Looks like a HE shell that came through the rear and found the ammo rack.

Battle of the Kasserine Pass, Tunisia February 1943

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WulfeHound #2 Posted Aug 26 2016 - 22:16

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Specifically, it's an M4 constructed by Pressed Steel Car in August of 1942. Serial number is 3015037. The damage may have been caused by a demolition charge placed by the Germans to render the tank unrecoverable

Lethalhavoc #3 Posted Aug 26 2016 - 22:40

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View PostWulfeHound, on Aug 26 2016 - 22:16, said:

Specifically, it's an M4 constructed by Pressed Steel Car in August of 1942. Serial number is 3015037. The damage may have been caused by a demolition charge placed by the Germans to render the tank unrecoverable

 

If they'd done that, they would have taken the .50 cal. Also the bow .30 cal is not mounted, which is odd if it was in combat.

Kind of makes you wonder if the crew abandoned the tank due to an engine fire and took the .30 cal with them.


Edited by Lethalhavoc, Aug 26 2016 - 22:44.


Strigonx #4 Posted Aug 26 2016 - 22:43

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View PostSwoony, on Aug 26 2016 - 17:03, said:

That's what an M4 Sherman looks like after being hit and penetrated by a German 88mm Anti-Tank/Flak Gun -

Looks like a HE shell that came through the rear and found the ammo rack.

Battle of the Kasserine Pass, Tunisia February 1943

 

Do you even know HE stands for High Explosive right? and it explodes on impact?

>Muhh germun superiorityyyyy



Swoony #5 Posted Aug 26 2016 - 23:02

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View PostStrigonx, on Aug 26 2016 - 16:43, said:

 

Do you even know HE stands for High Explosive right? and it explodes on impact?

>Muhh germun superiorityyyyy

 



Swoony #6 Posted Aug 26 2016 - 23:05

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View PostStrigonx, on Aug 26 2016 - 16:43, said:

 

Do you even know HE stands for High Explosive right? and it explodes on impact?

>Muhh germun superiorityyyyy

 

Yes, I do know. And with a mix of fuel and ammo going off you can have this!

WulfeHound #7 Posted Aug 26 2016 - 23:05

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View PostLethalhavoc, on Aug 26 2016 - 16:40, said:

 

If they'd done that, they would have taken the .50 cal. Also the bow .30 cal is not mounted, which is odd if it was in combat.

Kind of makes you wonder if the crew abandoned the tank due to an engine fire and took the .30 cal with them.

 

The bow .30cal makes sense since it uses the same round as the Garand.

You can actually see a penetration on the co-driver hood, which may have been one of the hits that disabled or even destroyed the tank



WulfeHound #8 Posted Aug 26 2016 - 23:06

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View PostSwoony, on Aug 26 2016 - 17:05, said:

 

Yes, I do know. And with a mix of fuel and ammo going off you can have this!

 

Fuel fires can be put out easily, ammo fires can't since they have their own oxidiser

Swoony #9 Posted Aug 26 2016 - 23:10

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View PostWulfeHound, on Aug 26 2016 - 17:05, said:

 

The bow .30cal makes sense since it uses the same round as the Garand.

You can actually see a penetration on the co-driver hood, which may have been one of the hits that disabled or even destroyed the tank

 

Maybe that .30cal was destroyed, I hadn't noticed that shell hole a few inches above.

WulfeHound #10 Posted Aug 26 2016 - 23:13

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View PostSwoony, on Aug 26 2016 - 17:10, said:

 

Maybe that .30cal was destroyed, I hadn't noticed that shell hole a few inches above.

 

Here's an enhanced photo of the glacis:



Wyvern2 #11 Posted Aug 26 2016 - 23:24

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I'd say HE is almost guaranteed not to be the culprit. IIRC 105mm HE was found to be ineffective vs an M4, and a 105mm howitzer has significantly more explosive filler than an 88mm Flak gun. Really the only nation that really struggled vs low caliber HE was the Germans during late war with their excessively brittle armor. Obviously, anybody else was still probably screwed if they took a hit from a 122-150mm caliber weapon, but there isn't much that can be done about that.

Donward #12 Posted Aug 26 2016 - 23:31

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Oh hey. A post about World War 2 here on the forums where the OP is completely wrong.

This is my shocked face.

WulfeHound #13 Posted Aug 26 2016 - 23:36

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View PostDonward, on Aug 26 2016 - 17:31, said:

Oh hey. A post about World War 2 here on the forums where the OP is completely wrong.

This is my shocked face.

 

To be fair he at least got the date and battle correct

Burning_Haggis #14 Posted Aug 27 2016 - 00:49

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The 88 HE shell was also equipped with a very fast acting delayed percussion fuse (28/30 if i remember right) to delay detonation of the composition for .1 sec.  There also was an AP/HE round, that would have had no trouble going through the rear armor of a shermie.    

 

The damage centers over the engine, and not the ammo racks, and is far beyond what an HE shell should have done.  I would bet it was scuttled after a mechanical failure. The M2 is a heavy pig, and about useless without the mount.  It would have been left by an abandoning crew.   Only rambo shoots a ma-duce from the hip.   

 

 

Italian propaganda footage from Tunisia.

Same tank looks to be at about 3:24 mark, but  from the rear.   Sure looks like the power plant is completely gone

 


Edited by Burning_Haggis, Aug 27 2016 - 05:03.


Swoony #15 Posted Aug 27 2016 - 15:21

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View PostDonward, on Aug 26 2016 - 17:31, said:

Oh hey. A post about World War 2 here on the forums where the OP is completely wrong.

This is my shocked face.

 

I copied and pasted the photo description off the original site. I don't know what your problem is kid, get a life.

Edited by Swoony, Aug 27 2016 - 16:24.


Swoony #16 Posted Aug 27 2016 - 15:23

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View PostBurning_Haggis, on Aug 26 2016 - 18:49, said:

The 88 HE shell was also equipped with a very fast acting delayed percussion fuse (28/30 if i remember right) to delay detonation of the composition for .1 sec.  There also was an AP/HE round, that would have had no trouble going through the rear armor of a shermie.

 

The damage centers over the engine, and not the ammo racks, and is far beyond what an HE shell should have done.  I would bet it was scuttled after a mechanical failure. The M2 is a heavy pig, and about useless without the mount.  It would have been left by an abandoning crew.   Only rambo shoots a ma-duce from the hip.

 

 

Italian propaganda footage from Tunisia.

Same tank looks to be at about 3:24 mark, but  from the rear.   Sure looks like the power plant is completely gone

 

 

Thanks for the info! I just copied and pasted the photo description off the original site. I thought it was an interesting shot to share!

Edited by Swoony, Aug 27 2016 - 16:25.


Burning_Haggis #17 Posted Aug 27 2016 - 17:41

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Good pix, enjoy researching some of these.  Sobering to realize there were people in most of them when they were knocked out.   

 

Other possibility ofr this one, and maybe more likely would be a result of a dive-bombing attack a 550# iron bomb into the engine deck would account for the massive damage, and then some. 

 

Man, watching those Italian TD's makes my cringe at the thought of an Italian tree in WOT, the free XP would be flowing to escape most of those :)



CapturedJoe #18 Posted Aug 27 2016 - 17:44

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View PostBurning_Haggis, on Aug 27 2016 - 17:41, said:

Man, watching those Italian TD's makes my cringe at the thought of an Italian tree in WOT, the free XP would be flowing to escape most of those :)

Look up their 90mm tank-destroyer, it darkened many an allied tankers' pants.



Donward #19 Posted Aug 27 2016 - 23:31

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View PostSwoony, on Aug 27 2016 - 06:21, said:

 

I copied and pasted the photo description off the original site. I don't know what your problem is kid, get a life.

 

Oh. So now comes the deflecting and the excuses.

 

Also. LOL.

 

"Kid".



Swoony #20 Posted Aug 28 2016 - 14:53

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View PostDonward, on Aug 27 2016 - 17:31, said:

 

Oh. So now comes the deflecting and the excuses.

 

Also. LOL.

 

"Kid".

 

What excuses? Nobody has the right answer! Again, what the hell's your problem kid? Need attention? No friends in your backyard?

I think your mommy pulled you off that nipple a little too soon. Shmuck.


Edited by Swoony, Aug 28 2016 - 14:59.





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