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Boosts on edge of maps/one sided.

boost ban fixed gold league

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Get_Clicked_On #1 Posted Sep 23 2016 - 18:16

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So after last night stream with eclipce and rival play on stepps, there was a long "discussion" on boost that are one sided and edge of maps. So the question is do league players think these kind of boost should be removed or changed to be more fair. Im talking about the steppes ones in A8, and A3, So what do league player think about these boost? 

Second what do you think about boost that both sides can do, like the mines ones where both teams ca



Blaze_terror #2 Posted Sep 23 2016 - 18:35

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They have there advantages and disadvantages . They just give teams more choices in strats.   What all league players should be thinking about is the state of the leagues them self's . It's not strong . There are alot of us players and teams  waiting and hoping next season is better for all 

Unknown0ne #3 Posted Sep 23 2016 - 18:57

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I think the boosts, especially on Steppes and Mines, have tended to slow the game down a lot of times, which makes things more boring to watch. If I had my choice, I'd vote in favor of removing the boosts with invisible walls.

 

View PostBlaze_terror, on Sep 23 2016 - 12:35, said:

They have there advantages and disadvantages . They just give teams more choices in strats.  

 

They tend to give the defender more choices, but the attacker less as they are forced into strategies to counter or work around the boosts. Steppes is the biggest culprit here, but Ghost Town and Mines both trend towards this as well in my opinion.



LordSammy #4 Posted Sep 23 2016 - 18:57

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In my opinions, boosts should only exist if they are "shortcuts" (For example, the boosts to get into the middle on mines). However, if the provide access to areas of the map that not everyone can get to, then they shouldn't exist as they provide an unfair advantage and, in the case of steppes, make it extremely difficult to attack and win. 

However, in terms of removing the boosts, I think it's probably best to have top gold league players from NA, EU, and RU talk to WG and discuss which boosts need to be removed in order to balance play.



Get_Clicked_On #5 Posted Sep 23 2016 - 19:56

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View PostUnknown0ne, on Sep 23 2016 - 11:57, said:

I think the boosts, especially on Steppes and Mines, have tended to slow the game down a lot of times, which makes things more boring to watch. If I had my choice, I'd vote in favor of removing the boosts with invisible walls.

 

 

They tend to give the defender more choices, but the attacker less as they are forced into strategies to counter or work around the boosts. Steppes is the biggest culprit here, but Ghost Town and Mines both trend towards this as well in my opinion.

 

View PostLordSammy, on Sep 23 2016 - 11:57, said:

In my opinions, boosts should only exist if they are "shortcuts" (For example, the boosts to get into the middle on mines). However, if the provide access to areas of the map that not everyone can get to, then they shouldn't exist as they provide an unfair advantage and, in the case of steppes, make it extremely difficult to attack and win. 

However, in terms of removing the boosts, I think it's probably best to have top gold league players from NA, EU, and RU talk to WG and discuss which boosts need to be removed in order to balance play.

 

So i see what your both are saying about how it make the game/match play different but i see the mines 0 line boost as a ok one that doesnt favor one team really that much, both sides he a chance to use it, it covers the whole side of a map to where either team can use it for there strat. I get that south side has a harder time getting up there and can take damage for it but i see the mines boost as one to get reworked maybe, not removed. 

The steppes boost tho i see can game breaking, if equally skill teams fight on steppes and the defense uses either if them, defense wins so much, it just allows you to leave one cap alone and put your other 6 tanks to cover the other. 

I like the idea above with all the gold players talking to Wg and like voting or each person can send a letter in explaining what they think. 



Unknown0ne #6 Posted Sep 23 2016 - 20:50

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View PostGet_Clicked_On, on Sep 23 2016 - 13:56, said:

So i see what your both are saying about how it make the game/match play different but i see the mines 0 line boost as a ok one that doesnt favor one team really that much, both sides he a chance to use it, it covers the whole side of a map to where either team can use it for there strat. I get that south side has a harder time getting up there and can take damage for it but i see the mines boost as one to get reworked maybe, not removed. 

 

Mines 0 line boost heavily favors the south because they can get up there far quicker from the start of the match and they can setup to spot/counter North's path to 0 line as well with any tank they want (even the boosted tank from the south can go over and shoot the tank attempting the north boost). Further, the big advantage to the south 0 line boost is it can be used to deny the hill without actually taking it, whereas from north because it is slower to get to the boost, you have to make sure no one is on the hill before doing the boost, otherwise you're an easy kill for anything on the hill.  And yes, the south 0 line boost tank can take damage from the hill versus a hard counter (bats rushing hill aren't loaded in time, it has to be something with a faster initial load), but even then it isn't a guaranteed kill, and it is forcing the attacker to play in a specific way if they want to counter that boost, which can then be countered by the defender.

 

Also, another note is one of the big advantages to a lot of the boosts is that there's enough cover for intel denial. Meaning, there's no way to even tell later on in the game if someone has been boosted until the boosted tank itself chooses to reveal its presence, or you boost a tank up to check (which often isn't an option for various reasons). WIthout this intel, it's hard to identify weaknesses in the enemy's line.



T1_Diabetic #7 Posted Sep 23 2016 - 22:38

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Personally boosts are a bad thing, yes they are nice and make some maps easier, but it takes away from the league being revolved around strats and game skill. It has kind of turned these maps into who can abuse the physics more and do it more consistently. The only map I think is fair for boosts is cliff because I don't think they break the map and the middle cliff can be taken advantage by both teams. 

Edited by T1_Diabetic, Sep 23 2016 - 22:39.


Masterpupil #8 Posted Sep 25 2016 - 00:18

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    Boosting is awful and should not be allowed at all in this game (at least on a high competitive level) in all honesty. I believe Valve had a problem like this with a couple of exploitable boost-spots on CS;GO in a major a while back; their response was to go through all of the maps and fix boost-spots that were shown to them by the players of their game: here's the video.

 

 

 

    Now while I say all this I want to laugh, and there's a reason why- if you look at some of the maps such as Cliff, Sacred Valley, Mountain Pass- they're all maps that have had some insanely exploitable bugs that were patched in a reasonably fast time compared to WarGaming standards. So why is it that WarGaming decide to go through and patch some boosts on SOME maps (I put emphasis on the word "some" as all three maps that I listed still have many exploitable areas)?

 

    There needs to be a fine line between what is right and wrong when it comes to these boosts, and there are a few suggestions that I have; if anyone disagrees or likes the idea but would like to modify it, I encourage you to voice your opinion:

 

A successful boost:

  • A boost must require two or more players to achieve the boost. If a boost can be done with only one tank, then it will be patched immediately and if exploited during a match with or without WarGaming's knowledge of it, the team guilty of incorrectly boosting will forfeit the match and the points along with it.
  • Any boost that involves a collision/physics bug between a tank and a building on the map sha'll be banned and fixed immediately and properly; and if exploited during a match with or without WarGaming's knowledge of it, the team guilty of incorrectly boosting will forfeit the match and the points along with it.
  • *SUGGESTION* (This is just an idea, I'm not a huge fan of it but who knows) A boost must not be done before a fixed threshold in the time of the match; a rightful time would be decided upon by the players, and if performed during a match before the desired and agreed-upon time, the team guilty of breaking the rule will forfeit the match and the points along with it. *SUGGESTION*

 

Involving Maps:

  • For a boost to be allowed on a map, it must only affect an area that the other team/side can also get to within the same amount of time; this would allow a fair and balanced playing field that allows teams to show off strategical skill rather than their knowledge of exploiting boosts/maps.
  • Boosts must be able to be clearly recognized by both the players and the audience of the matches. The reasoning behind this would mostly go towards benefiting the production value of the stream as a whole, as it is not so easy for the viewers of the matches (including some of the casters) to figure out how a player got to such an advantageous position without getting himself blown up. 

 

Anyways that's all I really have to say on this subject for right now. As I said above, please try and modify the lists as there are going to be obvious biases for what I think is fair and what is not fair.


Edited by Masterpupil, Sep 25 2016 - 00:20.


Get_Clicked_On #9 Posted Sep 25 2016 - 00:59

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Masterpupil- so do you consider a boost one that is done by 1 tank? Like if it can be done solo should it get fixed? I think you are leaning to yes. 

 

I do think some boosts add to the production of the stream, as it is fun to see them and maybe a player fail it and show everyone they are human. 

 

But has you didn't explain do you think the boosts/solo climbs that need to be fixed right away are the one sided ones or an boost? Idk maybe some examples would be nice to clear it up. I think about mines with the hill and 0 line. Or the steppes ones. 

 

I see cliff as a map that the boost haven't really made unfair, it has taken the map from a 1 min brawl to a slower map but it seems if the attacking team doesn't over extend it normally wins. 

 

But your overall all idea about players voting I really like and then pionts be taken for breaking rules is good. Just need more details and clarification. 



_Jdawgg #10 Posted Sep 26 2016 - 02:18

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In terms of the boosts, both solo and team, it needs to be looked at in terms of a case by case basis. I think a vast majority of them should just be patched out with invisible walls that prevent the boost being done. If a boost is determined not to have a gigantic effect to the outcome of the match, or both sides have a way up in relatively the same amount of time, that would be acceptable.

VoteKickHacks #11 Posted Sep 26 2016 - 03:52

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View Post_Jdawgg, on Sep 25 2016 - 19:18, said:

In terms of the boosts, both solo and team, it needs to be looked at in terms of a case by case basis. I think a vast majority of them should just be patched out with invisible walls that prevent the boost being done.

I like the ability for boosts to impact a game if they are hard to do or take a team dedication (aka any solo boost lmbo EU) but do agree they must be balanced better or removed. Please god no invisiwalls though invisible materials ruin competitiveness in many games.



_Jdawgg #12 Posted Sep 27 2016 - 00:49

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View PostVoteKickHacks, on Sep 25 2016 - 19:52, said:

I like the ability for boosts to impact a game if they are hard to do or take a team dedication (aka any solo boost lmbo EU) but do agree they must be balanced better or removed. Please god no invisiwalls though invisible materials ruin competitiveness in many games.

 

Instead of an invisible wall, since they have them already, they could just slap a big [edited]rock in the spot where the boost is done.

 

While I love watching the boost be done, if they give one side a size-able advantage over the other, it NEEDS to be taken out.



Fulcrous #13 Posted Sep 27 2016 - 01:20

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The CSGO boost in question was disallowed for different reasons.

Masterpupil #14 Posted Sep 27 2016 - 01:39

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View PostFulcrous, on Sep 27 2016 - 00:20, said:

The CSGO boost in question was disallowed for different reasons.

 

Agreed, but it has the same affects; only in a far more extreme manner.



Fulcrous #15 Posted Sep 27 2016 - 02:05

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View PostMasterpupil, on Sep 26 2016 - 16:39, said:

 

Agreed, but it has the same affects; only in a far more extreme manner.

 

Not necessarily.

  1. The player wasn't standing on an actual and visible ledge
  2. Pixel-walking aka walking on invisible ledges was disallowed + banned by dreamhack
  3. You could see through certain textures because they became transparent as a result of the boost.

Certain boosts are allowed in CSGO. That wasn't for the above.



Masterpupil #16 Posted Sep 27 2016 - 02:57

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View PostFulcrous, on Sep 27 2016 - 01:05, said:

 

Not necessarily.

  1. The player wasn't standing on an actual and visible ledge
  2. Pixel-walking aka walking on invisible ledges was disallowed + banned by dreamhack
  3. You could see through certain textures because they became transparent as a result of the boost.

Certain boosts are allowed in CSGO. That wasn't for the above.

 

The same way that many of the Cliffs boosts are literally a pixel sticking out of the side of the hill so that batchats (Like kycok) can actually get their tracks onto it to climb it. That boost is an example of why boosts can lead to be very bad things, and I think it does that well.

Haarmless #17 Posted Sep 29 2016 - 23:53

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Yeah boosts are bad for gameplay, as mentioned above they just slow things down far too much and games on mines and steppes often become a game of "who can boost better/faster" which is not what the game is about... #REMOVEBOOSTS

With that being said minor boosts such as the ones on either side of the middle hill on mines are fine because they aren't detrimental to gameplay and just open up more possibilities on the map as oppopsed to the boosts on the edges of the maps where you can just camp and shoot down on everyone. 


Edited by Haarmless, Sep 29 2016 - 23:56.


Get_Clicked_On #18 Posted Oct 17 2016 - 05:36

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http://wotreplays.co.../3029916#stats 





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