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Sliphantom on WoT P2W?(Pay for Advantage)


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Naproxeno_ #41 Posted Oct 07 2016 - 16:02

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"gold rounds"... why you keep calling "gold" to premium ammo? You can buy with credtis you know? haha

KatzeWolf #42 Posted Oct 07 2016 - 16:02

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View PostOgopogo, on Oct 08 2016 - 00:59, said:

 

It's as Katze_ says. And, just to add on to that, there is the factor of stock grinds too. 

 

But just to go to the extreme. If they introduce a nuclear round for the T92. It deals 100000 damage with a 100m splash range and costs 2 million credits or several thousand gold. Would that be P2W? Of course it would be unbalance, but would it be P2W?

 

 

Err... In the situation you've given, yes it would increase their performance. It's not going to make them a unicum by any stretch of the imagination, but it will improve their performance.

 

 

They may be able to afford them to a limited degree, but many paid for services allow the player to afford them so much more.

 

 

Yay... Someone gets it...

Random__Task #43 Posted Oct 07 2016 - 16:02

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View PostMaxximusDecimusMeridius, on Oct 07 2016 - 14:59, said:

 

A "good" player would not use a full load out of premium rounds.  A good player knows when to shoot premium rounds and when not to.

 

Unfortunately, some players think you can only become good if you shoot nothing but premium rounds.  

Kliphie #44 Posted Oct 07 2016 - 16:03

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View PostKatze_, on Oct 07 2016 - 10:00, said:

 

If a premium account only gave an increase to exp, I would agree with you, but it also increases income...

 

It's a business model to encourage you to buy premium (profit) or play middle tiers to grind credits (improve gameplay for newer players.)  Without an economic penalty, anything below 8 would be ghost towns.  

Maxx_Rage #45 Posted Oct 07 2016 - 16:03

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View PostKatze_, on Oct 07 2016 - 15:00, said:

 

If a premium account only gave an increase to exp, I would agree with you, but it also increases income...

 

So what?  AGAIN, since it increases income, you progress faster with a premium account than you do with a standard account.  But, you can and will still earn the same amount with the standard account as you do the premium account, it will just take you longer, THAT IS ALL.

KatzeWolf #46 Posted Oct 07 2016 - 16:04

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View PostMaxximusDecimusMeridius, on Oct 08 2016 - 00:59, said:

 

A "good" player would not use a full load out of premium rounds.  A good player knows when to shoot premium rounds and when not to.

 

That's not what I meant and you know it.

Premium rounds are better, you can't deny it, so someone who can afford to fling more of them gets an advantage.



Random__Task #47 Posted Oct 07 2016 - 16:05

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View PostOgopogo, on Oct 07 2016 - 14:59, said:

 

It's as Katze_ says. And, just to add on to that, there is the factor of stock grinds too. 

 

But just to go to the extreme. If they introduce a nuclear round for the T92. It deals 100000 damage with a 100m splash range and costs 2 million credits or several thousand gold. Would that be P2W? Of course it would be unbalance, but would it be P2W?

 

 

Err... In the situation you've given, yes it would increase their performance. It's not going to make them a unicum by any stretch of the imagination, but it will improve their performance.

 

 

They may be able to afford them to a limited degree, but many paid for services allow the player to afford them so much more.

 

 

 

That is an assumption.  There is no way to prove that using any premium content would in fact increase their performance.  



KatzeWolf #48 Posted Oct 07 2016 - 16:05

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View PostMaxximusDecimusMeridius, on Oct 08 2016 - 01:03, said:

 

So what?  AGAIN, since it increases income, you progress faster with a premium account than you do with a standard account.  But, you can and will still earn the same amount with the standard account as you do the premium account, it will just take you longer, THAT IS ALL.

 

50% to income... if player A runs a prem account every battle, and player B runs a standard account. After every battle, player A will have earned 50% more, so no, you can't catch up if they are always earning more.

Maxx_Rage #49 Posted Oct 07 2016 - 16:06

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View PostOgopogo, on Oct 07 2016 - 14:59, said:

 

It's as Katze_ says. And, just to add on to that, there is the factor of stock grinds too.

 

But just to go to the extreme. If they introduce a nuclear round for the T92. It deals 100000 damage with a 100m splash range and costs 2 million credits or several thousand gold. Would that be P2W? Of course it would be unbalance, but would it be P2W?

 

 

Err... In the situation you've given, yes it would increase their performance. It's not going to make them a unicum by any stretch of the imagination, but it will improve their performance.

 

 

They may be able to afford them to a limited degree, but many paid for services allow the player to afford them so much more.

 

 

And to Katze who says 'Yay someone gets it' - LOL, geez.  For one, your extreme isn't in the game, BUT, even if it was, a standard account can buy those fake round for the T92 just like a premium account can, it will just take them longer to get the 2 million credits or several thousand gold.  AGAIN, pay to progress faster, not pay to win.

Random__Task #50 Posted Oct 07 2016 - 16:06

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View PostKatze_, on Oct 07 2016 - 15:04, said:

 

That's not what I meant and you know it.

Premium rounds are better, you can't deny it, so someone who can afford to fling more of them gets an advantage.

 

Why are you trying to argue that premium rounds are 100% auto-pen?  Here's a fact: they're aren't.

T1tanic #51 Posted Oct 07 2016 - 16:07

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Keep it simple.  Can I, by using real world cash, gain an advantage ingame over anyone who is not using real world cash?

The answer is obviously yes.  

Be it increased income (less grinding per silver and advantageous access to improved rounds (time to drop the premium/gold round tag)), more expensive vehicles and equipment.  If I am totally desperate I can convert my real world cash directly into silver for an even more blatant advantage.  

Be it by reducing the in-game "work/grind" needed to progress experience wise both in direct XP gain and the flexibility of use of Free XP.  

Or be it by offering a combination of the above by selling tanks that opens up access to higher tier (and therefore higher earning potential) without spending the time/grind to unlock the equivalent vehicles of the same tier.  While there is the argument that tanks like the E-25, IS-6 and LeCamper are unbalanced even if we disregard that Premium vehicles still allow performance above what can be achieved without grinding.

WoT may not be the classic P2W model people seem to want to get stuck on as a definition but it IS Pay To Advantage, and in the case of any PVP orientated game, advantage may as well be win. 

Kliphie #52 Posted Oct 07 2016 - 16:08

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View PostKatze_, on Oct 07 2016 - 10:05, said:

 

50% to income... if player A runs a prem account every battle, and player B runs a standard account. After every battle, player A will have earned 50% more, so no, you can't catch up if they are always earning more.

 

It's s actually more than that because your repair and ammo costs are fixed. 

Maxx_Rage #53 Posted Oct 07 2016 - 16:08

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View PostKatze_, on Oct 07 2016 - 15:04, said:

 

That's not what I meant and you know it.

Premium rounds are better, you can't deny it, so someone who can afford to fling more of them gets an advantage.

 

But, everyone can afford them!  Everyone in the game has the same exact access to the premium rounds as everyone else.  now, to those who are not as good as other players, it will take them longer to earn the credits to purchase the premium rounds.  but, this comes back to that player should be doing everything they can to get better at the game so the credits will be easily earned.

Strike_Witch_Tomoko #54 Posted Oct 07 2016 - 16:11

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View PostMaxximusDecimusMeridius, on Oct 07 2016 - 08:08, said:

 

Everyone in the game has the same exact access to the premium rounds as everyone else. 

thats wrong

those who buy prem account and prem tanks.   have better access to premium rounds as they are expensive rounds and if you earn more credits you can afford more gold rounds.

 

someone in a normal tank will not earn as much as someone in a prem tank.

hell even if the prem tank user does worse. they can still make more credits.


Edited by Strike_Witch_Tomoko, Oct 07 2016 - 16:12.


Maxx_Rage #55 Posted Oct 07 2016 - 16:11

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View PostKatze_, on Oct 07 2016 - 15:05, said:

 

50% to income... if player A runs a prem account every battle, and player B runs a standard account. After every battle, player A will have earned 50% more, so no, you can't catch up if they are always earning more.

 

I never said catch up to player A.  In your analogy, what I said is, that player B can and will earn the same amount as player A, it will just take them longer.

KatzeWolf #56 Posted Oct 07 2016 - 16:12

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I give up on you people.
Sit and boil for all I care.

Edited by Katze_, Oct 07 2016 - 16:15.


Ogopogo #57 Posted Oct 07 2016 - 16:13

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View PostRandom__Task, on Oct 07 2016 - 16:05, said:

That is an assumption.  There is no way to prove that using any premium content would in fact increase their performance.  

 

You are arguing that 2<1.

Ignoring the other things listed for simplicity, there are many premium rounds which are literally straight upgrades. If you increase the pen of a tank, it's performance increases. That's all there is to it.

 

View PostRandom__Task, on Oct 07 2016 - 16:06, said:

 

Why are you trying to argue that premium rounds are 100% auto-pen?  Here's a fact: they're aren't.

 

Are you arguing that many premium rounds are just as likely to pen as standard rounds? Here's a fact: they're not



KatzeWolf #58 Posted Oct 07 2016 - 16:13

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View PostMaxximusDecimusMeridius, on Oct 08 2016 - 01:11, said:

 

I never said catch up to player A.  In your analogy, what I said is, that player B can and will earn the same amount as player A, it will just take them longer.

 

Yes, but in the mean time, can not afford as many 'prem rounds' as player A, so player A has the advantage.

Maxx_Rage #59 Posted Oct 07 2016 - 16:13

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View PostStrike_Witch_Tomoko, on Oct 07 2016 - 15:11, said:

thats wrong

those who buy prem account and prem tanks.   have better access to premium rounds as they are expensive rounds and if you earn more credits you can afford more gold rounds.

 

No, you are wrong.  Choose your words carefully.  People with a premium account and premium tanks do not have a "better" access to premium rounds, they have a "quicker" access to premium rounds.  AGAIN, pay to progress faster.

redemption #60 Posted Oct 07 2016 - 16:15

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Consider two players in a tier 10 game.

 

Player A:

  • Has premium account
  • buys credits for gold
  • All prem rounds
  • All prem consumables

 

Player B:

  • No prem account
  • Plays 20 tier 5 battles for each t10 battle
  • All prem rounds
  • All prem consumables

 

Which player wins?


Edited by redemption, Oct 07 2016 - 16:17.





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