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Should you choose a Tank destoyer


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170_Calories #1 Posted Aug 03 2011 - 00:44

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Ok im writing this mostly for new players who are trying to decide which tree to choose. If your thinking of choosing the Td line I will share some of my observations and hopefully it will help you make a more informed decision.
First off if your a "charge in" kind of personality a med or heavy tank would suit you better imo. But if your like me and you enjoy sniping and stealth Td's are well suited for that job. Td's typically follow behind your forces, out of  enemy radar range targeting tanks that your forward forces have lit up for you.
Td,s have a sniper style scope that allows to to pull in really tight accurate shots on specific parts of the tank. For instance at range you can typically target ammo boxs, engines and so on, where as normal tanks at range are just trying to hit the tank. Lower lvl Td's have a camo bonus when they are fully concealed in a bush. Combine that with camo net and you can typically get a few shots off before you are spotted. Remember though if you fire or move  you are lit up for 3 sec. Low lvl td are fairly fast and mid lvl td's are low profile as well. Upper lvl td sport big guns better armor but stealth disappears for most of them. It can be a challenge moving from a quick stealth mid lvl td to a high tier 0 cammo bonus ferdy for example.

Tds are great tanks for spreading out damage you will often be switching targets to spread out that damage. Td are great for clean up, any tanks that get through the frontal forces are typically heavily damaged and easy prey for a Td.
Down sides to Td's are your flanks fast turreted tanks will almost always try to flank you, being as your turret on most tds is fixed this can mean big trouble for you. Learning to fall back or re-position when forces are closing is essential. Most td are first to be targeted by artyies because of your open tops and weaker armor.
All in all I really enjoy Td'd and I hope to see ya out there.

well I hope this helps.

JDCollie #2 Posted Aug 03 2011 - 00:57

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Most TDs also excel at fire support, meaning keeping close to heavier allies, and then shooting at the things which they engage. This prevents a lot of the counter-fire you might otherwise receive, and puts a huge amount of pressure on your opponent.

Alone, TDs are weak generallyl; with support, they are fantastic force multipliers.

Irrik #3 Posted Aug 03 2011 - 23:11

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That's just not true though. What you are saying is false, and is only going to hurt a new player.

Tank Destroyers do NOT have a special sniper scope: they have the same aiming options as other tanks. They are also not generally more accurate, or suitable for aiming at specific tank parts. That requires you to be close to your enemy, where your small health pool, bad mobility in cover, and weak armor in general is going to hurt you. Many of the TD guns are in the 0.35-0.4 accuracy range, whereas the more accurate guns are the 0.3-0.35 range, and the super accurate guns, 0.27-0.3, are mostly spread across vehicle classes. Just go to the wiki, sort by weapon accuracy for each nation, then look up each result and decide if the gun is a viable option for the tank.

to spoil the results for you, the top entry for the germans is a medium tank, the top entry for the russians is a medium tank, and the top entry for the Americans is a tank destroyer, but the Americans lack high accuracy weapons in general, and "top" means "0.31 in tier 6+")

Plus, if you are advising a new player, you generally want to give your advice regarding low tier tanks, I would assume.

The American early TD's are going to be firing, likely, the t18's howitzer, a very inaccurate gun (good for a howitzer....... but it's a howitzer), the T82's howitzer, or it's 0.34 accuracy 57mm, and the T40's howitzer, though it has 0.34-0.36 accuracy guns.

If you play German, you are going to have the panzerjager, which starts out at 0.35 accuracy, and only gets to 0.33 if you stick on it, which you probably won't because it's a terrible tank with a large profile, slow turn rate, negligible armor, and only mounts a tier 3 gun. Then you get the marder, which is going to be at a very inaccurate 0.37-0.38, and the hetzer, which mounts a 0.37 gun at best.

If you play Russian, you get the AT-1, which will probably be firing a 0.38 gun, then the su-76, which is basically the only accurate early TD, with it's 0.3 57mm, and then you are driving the SU-85B, which is probably going to mount the 85mm at 0.33, becuase if you wanted the zis-4, you would be driving the SU-76 anyways.

Just for comparison, if you play russian mediums, you get the T-26, with a 0.34 gun, T-46 with a 0.32 gun, and the T-28, with a 0.30 gun, followed by the kv with a 0.39 gun.

This sniper advantage of TD's doesn't really exist. They are not significantly more accurate than other tank classes, especially in the early tiers. Plus, if you are close enough to target specific parts of the tank, you are probably in hard cover, where you have a significant disadvantage as compared to turreted tanks.

I would say that the TD's main advantage is consistently high tier guns. While there is not really any consistency in the TYPE of guns TD's get, they quite reliably get guns 2 tiers higher than the tank, meaning they can generally do a lot of damage in general. But the guns really aren't typecast.  I have played every TD up to tier 5 except the SU-85, and the only ones I would say to be notably accurate are the SU-76, with it's tier 6 57mm railgun, and the Stug, with it's tier 6. And that's two tanks out of the first 11 (can't speak with certainty on the SU-85).

fsjd #4 Posted Aug 03 2011 - 23:42

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hetzer with the 105 isnt meant to snipe. its a fire support vehicle.
accuracy=snipers
derpgun=lower accuracy=support.
either way you hide in a bush and kill any idiot tank who asummes his path is clear.

Necrolegion #5 Posted Aug 04 2011 - 00:14

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View PostIrrik, on Aug 03 2011 - 23:11, said:

That's just not true though. What you are saying is false, and is only going to hurt a new player.

Tank Destroyers do NOT have a special sniper scope: they have the same aiming options as other tanks. They are also not generally more accurate, or suitable for aiming at specific tank parts. That requires you to be close to your enemy, where your small health pool, bad mobility in cover, and weak armor in general is going to hurt you. Many of the TD guns are in the 0.35-0.4 accuracy range, whereas the more accurate guns are the 0.3-0.35 range, and the super accurate guns, 0.27-0.3, are mostly spread across vehicle classes. Just go to the wiki, sort by weapon accuracy for each nation, then look up each result and decide if the gun is a viable option for the tank.

to spoil the results for you, the top entry for the germans is a medium tank, the top entry for the russians is a medium tank, and the top entry for the Americans is a tank destroyer, but the Americans lack high accuracy weapons in general, and "top" means "0.31 in tier 6+")

Plus, if you are advising a new player, you generally want to give your advice regarding low tier tanks, I would assume.

The American early TD's are going to be firing, likely, the t18's howitzer, a very inaccurate gun (good for a howitzer....... but it's a howitzer), the T82's howitzer, or it's 0.34 accuracy 57mm, and the T40's howitzer, though it has 0.34-0.36 accuracy guns.

If you play German, you are going to have the panzerjager, which starts out at 0.35 accuracy, and only gets to 0.33 if you stick on it, which you probably won't because it's a terrible tank with a large profile, slow turn rate, negligible armor, and only mounts a tier 3 gun. Then you get the marder, which is going to be at a very inaccurate 0.37-0.38, and the hetzer, which mounts a 0.37 gun at best.

If you play Russian, you get the AT-1, which will probably be firing a 0.38 gun, then the su-76, which is basically the only accurate early TD, with it's 0.3 57mm, and then you are driving the SU-85B, which is probably going to mount the 85mm at 0.33, becuase if you wanted the zis-4, you would be driving the SU-76 anyways.

Just for comparison, if you play russian mediums, you get the T-26, with a 0.34 gun, T-46 with a 0.32 gun, and the T-28, with a 0.30 gun, followed by the kv with a 0.39 gun.

This sniper advantage of TD's doesn't really exist. They are not significantly more accurate than other tank classes, especially in the early tiers. Plus, if you are close enough to target specific parts of the tank, you are probably in hard cover, where you have a significant disadvantage as compared to turreted tanks.

I would say that the TD's main advantage is consistently high tier guns. While there is not really any consistency in the TYPE of guns TD's get, they quite reliably get guns 2 tiers higher than the tank, meaning they can generally do a lot of damage in general. But the guns really aren't typecast.  I have played every TD up to tier 5 except the SU-85, and the only ones I would say to be notably accurate are the SU-76, with it's tier 6 57mm railgun, and the Stug, with it's tier 6. And that's two tanks out of the first 11 (can't speak with certainty on the SU-85).

I agree with this guy/gal. He/she is correct. OP is making it seem the TD path is good, which it really is not early on. Only in the higher tiers with the extra modules will you be a successful TD. I am still considered a noob and at my level I can tell you that the TD path is a harsh one.

IMO the medium class tanks are the best overall and the only really good specialty class is the SPGs. SPGs are easier to play if you are the type who doesn't like taking risk. SPGs are some of the best support vehicles in this game early on as you aren't putting yourself into harms way and you are actually supporting your team by helping them take down tougher tanks they encounter.

EDIT: LoL at my last sentence. Run-on sentence FTW!

RommelMcDonald #6 Posted Aug 05 2011 - 14:25

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For a new player I'd recommend working through the Russian TDs up to the SU-85 and stop. At the same time I'd grab a German Sturmpanzer II arty and see how you like that play style.

Then I'd work the German Medium and Heavy lines to the E50 and E100.

Then just play the game.

170_Calories #7 Posted Aug 05 2011 - 17:18

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View PostIrrik, on Aug 03 2011 - 23:11, said:

That's just not true though. What you are saying is false, and is only going to hurt a new player.

Tank Destroyers do NOT have a special sniper scope: they have the same aiming options as other tanks. They are also not generally more accurate, or suitable for aiming at specific tank parts. That requires you to be close to your enemy, where your small health pool, bad mobility in cover, and weak armor in general is going to hurt you. Many of the TD guns are in the 0.35-0.4 accuracy range, whereas the more accurate guns are the 0.3-0.35 range, and the super accurate guns, 0.27-0.3, are mostly spread across vehicle classes. Just go to the wiki, sort by weapon accuracy for each nation, then look up each result and decide if the gun is a viable option for the tank.

to spoil the results for you, the top entry for the germans is a medium tank, the top entry for the russians is a medium tank, and the top entry for the Americans is a tank destroyer, but the Americans lack high accuracy weapons in general, and "top" means "0.31 in tier 6+")

Plus, if you are advising a new player, you generally want to give your advice regarding low tier tanks, I would assume.

The American early TD's are going to be firing, likely, the t18's howitzer, a very inaccurate gun (good for a howitzer....... but it's a howitzer), the T82's howitzer, or it's 0.34 accuracy 57mm, and the T40's howitzer, though it has 0.34-0.36 accuracy guns.

If you play German, you are going to have the panzerjager, which starts out at 0.35 accuracy, and only gets to 0.33 if you stick on it, which you probably won't because it's a terrible tank with a large profile, slow turn rate, negligible armor, and only mounts a tier 3 gun. Then you get the marder, which is going to be at a very inaccurate 0.37-0.38, and the hetzer, which mounts a 0.37 gun at best.

If you play Russian, you get the AT-1, which will probably be firing a 0.38 gun, then the su-76, which is basically the only accurate early TD, with it's 0.3 57mm, and then you are driving the SU-85B, which is probably going to mount the 85mm at 0.33, becuase if you wanted the zis-4, you would be driving the SU-76 anyways.

Just for comparison, if you play russian mediums, you get the T-26, with a 0.34 gun, T-46 with a 0.32 gun, and the T-28, with a 0.30 gun, followed by the kv with a 0.39 gun.

This sniper advantage of TD's doesn't really exist. They are not significantly more accurate than other tank classes, especially in the early tiers. Plus, if you are close enough to target specific parts of the tank, you are probably in hard cover, where you have a significant disadvantage as compared to turreted tanks.

I would say that the TD's main advantage is consistently high tier guns. While there is not really any consistency in the TYPE of guns TD's get, they quite reliably get guns 2 tiers higher than the tank, meaning they can generally do a lot of damage in general. But the guns really aren't typecast.  I have played every TD up to tier 5 except the SU-85, and the only ones I would say to be notably accurate are the SU-76, with it's tier 6 57mm railgun, and the Stug, with it's tier 6. And that's two tanks out of the first 11 (can't speak with certainty on the SU-85).

I will have to disagree with you on this. The scope does pull in more then other tanks. Also On my ferdi im pulling a 70% hit ratio, where as on my meds in around 40-50% ratio.

Kage_Acheron #8 Posted Aug 05 2011 - 17:59

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You do know that you can use the mousewheel to zoom in/out, right?

Captain_DirtyLeotard #9 Posted Aug 05 2011 - 19:26

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Everyone here has some good points but I think for a newcomer you need to keep things simple.  If we start to go into too many statistics and such it really gets confusing.  I personally think the OP is speaking the newcomers language, I know that I dont like games I have to research first before playing.  I just want to plug in, press start, and go.  But since everyone is getting all wall o' text its my turn.

I started with Tank Destroyers, Russian, so here are some things I can tell you:

1) Start playing whichever country tank line you want.  In the end the grass will always be greener on the other side.  My decision for playing Russian TD's was because the endgame one, Object 704, at the time had the "biggest gun."  I didnt research that my cousin did.

2) I enjoyed playing TDs in general and I think I was lucky to start with them because it seems in general that when they are finally upgraded can "punch above their weight class."  This means in a monotone voice: SMASH BUTTONS KILL TANKS.  

3) The hardest thing for a new player in general is to understand how "spotting" works.  This is important with TDs because you will have horrific spotting range.  Basically, you will always been seen before the other guys spots you.  

- Remember that lights and mediums have the best spotting power in general
- The reason your spotting power is lower is because you have higher camo values.  But you need to be still and not shoot otherwise your advantage of not being discovered will be lost. This is if you are in a bush or behind, cant forget this detail.
- Generally you are given a gun in your tier to cause much harm and if you get the first shot off will win the fight.  A tracked light or medium tank is a dead one.  Because everyone and the arty can pile on with a good chance to hit.
- Dont get caught by yourself unless you are setting up a trap and know you can 1 shot them if they come your way.
- So, stay near support because they are your eyes, can be heavies, lights, or mediums.  Just dont be the only person between you and the next potential target.  

4) TDs just dont have enough hit points to survive long once they are spotted and are high priority targets.

5) Once you are done researching a tank and have it elited, it will be much more fun than playing the next tier tank up stock.  It really is a downgrade, not to mention you have to learn how to play the new toy, and this can take some time getting used too.  

6) Some tanks fully upgraded will still seem underpowered or cheesy.  I fully recommend getting modules which improve the characteristics. Thankfully on a TD that will be 90% of the time a camo net, binoculars, and gun rammer.

7) Crew competency is huge factor on overall performance of the tank.  So the statistics you see are not met until your crew is trained properly.  So, you will have less view range, more inaccuracy, slower top speed, slower turning, longer aim time, and higher chance to miss.  Basically, when you get your first tanks this is going to be the thoughts that go through your mind:

- wtf just hit me????
- where did that come from#$%@#$%#!
- why am i on fire??
- why do i catch on fire all the time#$$%@$^&&*#!
- why do i get 1 shotted but cant kill crap??
- why cant i shoot?
- out of ammo?!
- why cant i move
- why cant i hurt that guy
- ten tanks shot me and i didnt even see one
- im just going to buy a Lowe and pwn face
- f* this game its borken /comes back 30mins later play again
- im going to rage on the forums

The game requires some patience if you care about winning or losing. Otherwise, jump in a game free balling and just go out there without ammo, because this will happen to you sometimes!  Oh and yes all your stats are tracked so dont be surprised when you have a 35% win ratio, awesome!

RootX #10 Posted Aug 05 2011 - 20:05

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View PostRommelMcDonald, on Aug 05 2011 - 14:25, said:

For a new player I'd recommend working through the Russian TDs up to the SU-85 and stop. At the same time I'd grab a German Sturmpanzer II arty and see how you like that play style.

Then I'd work the German Medium and Heavy lines to the E50 and E100.

Then just play the game.

I have to agree and dis-agree, the Russian line is fun, but go to the SU-100, I get in really fun and rewarding games in mine and it gets it's far share of kills (mine is elite, which does help :)). I also have the Obj 704, which yes kicks azz but cost's a ton to operate. The SU-100 is one fun tank to play




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