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Turret direction mod not legal now.


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Billy_The_Butcher #41 Posted Oct 25 2016 - 02:27

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View Postscyorkie, on Oct 23 2016 - 09:49, said:

 

Every player I've seen with this mod has the version which shows turret direction outside of draw range (and I've reported every one of them if they're on the NA server).

 

How do you "See" these players with this mod? Do you go to their house and check? Seriously, how can you see it to report anybody?

Wait, are you one of "Those guys" that watch the little guys video and thinks everyone is cheating now?

(BTW unless you have gone to their house to see the game in action, theres no way to know. Unless they are sending you replays LOL)

 



Tolos #42 Posted Oct 25 2016 - 02:51

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I thought it was always illegal tbh

scyorkie #43 Posted Oct 25 2016 - 03:37

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View Postxx_Skull_xx, on Oct 25 2016 - 09:27, said:

How do you "See" these players with this mod? Do you go to their house and check? Seriously, how can you see it to report anybody?

Wait, are you one of "Those guys" that watch the little guys video and thinks everyone is cheating now?

(BTW unless you have gone to their house to see the game in action, theres no way to know. Unless they are sending you replays LOL)

 

Streams. Replays don't work.

 

And "those guys" never get anywhere past green stats. Look up mine.

 

 



heavymetal1967 #44 Posted Oct 25 2016 - 04:07

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Can of worms opened. And don't kill the messenger folks.

 

Someeone needs to get Ghostprime or someone at WG to clarify some things.

 

Copy pasting cause quoting a quoted section in the forums is a PITA.  Link here, http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/511145-how-do-i-get-get-more-results-other-than-in-game-reporting/page__pid__10377129#entry10377129

 


 

PM from GhostPrime who also covered a few other mods including zoom out and any reload timer that shows a reload in progress even if it's not a specific reload via data mining. 

 

Link to the post in another thread.  Also I agree it's not mentioned.  "Aimbots" are mentioned in the official thread and support articles.  But unlike some of the other mods there's no examples.

 

Also aimbot to many means targeting weak spots not necessarily an aiming mod.   That's why folks using aimbot to describe what many consider an aiming mod brings so much ire upon them.  And that's why many folks probably think it's legal because to them it's not an "aimbot" per se.

 

Bottom line that aiming mod or aimbot whatever one whats to call it is banned on NA.

 

Link to the post.  http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/510929-a-public-apology/page__pid__10372571#entry10372571

 

Nvm, I'll just copy/paste.  I'll enlarge the text re: Autoaim plus mod.

 

For clarification.  From a PM with GhostPrime.  He quoted my questions and replied in red.  Although it's a quote I'm changing his reply color to blue, removing some non relevant stuff and redacting names of a staffer and a mod pack author.  I also removed mention of an infamous illegal modpack. Other than that it's verbatim.

 

If you'll notice the staffer's linked reply  re: inside view range on the FOV no longer exists because it was incorrect and that mod is banned.  The quoted reply saying it is legal within view range was incorrect and that post has since been removed.

 

GhostPrime, on Aug 16 2016 - 13:55, said:

heavymetal1967, on Aug 15 2016 - 16:08, said:

 

 

Re: the FOV (turret) direction indicator.  If they only show that info inside the view range I am of the understanding they are legal. 

 

 

View Post XXXXXXX  on Jun 18 2015 - 13:48, said:

Clarification:

If the enemy tank is OUTSIDE of your view-range, then turret detection mod is illegal. If the enemy tank is INSIDE your view-range, then the turret detection is legal

 

Thoughts behind this include that in your view range you can get an idea of where a tank is aiming by, well, looking at them.

 

Not correct see the rest of the post - HM.

 

This isn't a staffer it just links the question and answer together. 

 

View PostBavor, on Mar 27 2016 - 01:49, said:

Actually its 100% legal on the NA server.  Go check the thread on prohibited modifications.  Wargaming said its legal because it doesn't give you any info you can't get with a 100% legal zoom out mod or communication from team mates.

 

Again not correct - HM.

 

My question:

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/405729-prohibited-mod-qa/page__st__560__pid__9088517#entry9088517

Wargaming's reply:

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/405729-prohibited-mod-qa/page__st__560__pid__9111986#entry9111986

 

 

The direction indicator I also thought was legal, but I can't cite any official word on WG regarding it.  However, it's not mentioned in the support article nor the forum thread. Like the FOV indicator it provides info you can ascertain via teamwork/observation via the map as the FOV indicator.  Also it doesn't show non spotted enemies, only spotted ones.  That info is available on the map and via teammate comms as well. 

 

XXXXXX was Incorrect. I have removed that post post of his to avoid further confusion. 

 

While the mod is illegal, an employee was incorrect in a direct question about this type of mod.

 

Now if you'll bear with me in light of my confusion on what I thought was ok that may not be OK I have a few questions on other mods.   All these are from XXXXXXX mod pack which I venture to say are popular mods for the player base.

 

Q.  The turret or FOV indicator.  If it shows the FOV on tanks inside the view range is it legal per XXXXXXX post?  Also just to clarify if it's legal is that view range or render range.  Some folks claim they've been told render range by WG staff.  But there is NO proof that any staff has used the term "render" range that I personally have seen.  All I've seen is the post by XXXXX using "view range" as the deciding factor.

 

- Both, Not legal at all from what I have been told. 

 

Q,  The direction indicator.  Is it banned outright or if it shows spotted tanks is it ok since that info is available to the player?

 

- Illegal as well, does not matter if the tank is spotted or not

 

I have a few questions on other mods.  Another member pointed out that aimbots are illegal per the official thread by WG (the one by you Ghost).  But aimbot is all it says.

 

I know that the aimbot XXXXXX uses that targets weakspots and module/crew areas is banned, or at least that's what I think forum consensus. I know XXXXXX per se is banned.  But XXXXXXX has a mod that is titled Autoaim Indication+.  Here's the description.  "Allows to snap autoaim on tanks behind obstacles".  Other than that it works the same as the in game autoaim as I understand it.  Most posts that I've read indicate it's legal here.  But I've not seen anything specific by WG on this mod. 

 

Q. Is this mod banned or ok?

 

- Aimbots that can snap to a tank behind an object is not legal. This gives the player an unfair advantage. This is why it's not included int he vanilla version. 

 

And a question on reload timers.  I see the circle reload timer is listed in the support article.  XXXXXX has that mod in his pack and it also has a text only option.  It's my understanding it does not data mine the client for info.

 

My understanding is they're OK as long as they don't data mine the specifics and report it, but if they assume a maxed out or stock rate or somewhere in between they're OK.  I've seen that posted by staff before and can likely find it if needed.  My followed thread list seems to have gotten hit pretty hard by the forum cleaning awhile back, so I don't have it immediately available. But it's been quoted and is likely still on the forum somewhere.

 

- So its gets a little hazy here. The reload timers are not legal because it could give an unfair advantage, even if the reload times do not take into account modifications or crew perks. The reasoning behind this is that let's say you are facing a lot of heavy tanks right around the corner. Once they fire you will be able to tell your team how much time they have to push, and that is not fair to the other team. This also gives an advantage.

 

Q.  Are reload timers ok if they don't data mine the actual reload rate(s)?  Or are all reload timers banned?  Also there are some mods that display tank info when you target that tank that displays among other things the view range and reload rate.  It's my understanding it uses a stock view range and doesn't data mine the reload rate.  On XXXXXX it's called Info Panel Extended and there are multiple versions by different authors.  Are reload rates listed via these info panel mods legal?

 

- These are ok, because they don't show the progress time of the reload. 

 

Zoom out mods?  Legal provided they don't use a free cam is my understanding? 

 

Q.  Are zoom outs without a free cam legal?

 

Zoom in mods?  If they don't zoom in close enough to remove foliage they're OK, not to mention they are now part of the client.

 

- Another difficult one. Zoom out mods for regular tanks (Like Arty cam) are not legal. This is because say, you have a tank on the other side of an obstacle that you are trying to engage, the cam like this would let you know what direction he is facing and what is happening on the other side of the obstacle, and it makes the obstacle obsolete. For further clarification, please send in some images.

 

Q.  What is the zoom in rate that's considered banned, or is any magnification legal?  If I recall correctly the client goes into x32 or x36.  Most modpacks have versions that go to x60.

- Again, I would need to see images or video. 

 

 

 

 



scyorkie #45 Posted Oct 25 2016 - 04:34

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I agree with everything GP said (as reproduced above).

zed2204 #46 Posted Oct 25 2016 - 05:51

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Regardless of the as usual mixed and incredibly unclear message from WG

This MOD gives clear advantage
Is should and apparently IS banned
(Which I good)

What is not good is that as OP demonstrates the only way to get caught is to pretty much tell them yourself
And the consequences are ....... A week ban ?
LOL, yea that will deter anyone right.


WG do something about this problem, I don't know how many people you think you will loose by taking their MODs but I assure you, the loss of players thinking the game is unfair is immeasurably higher

 

Because it is so hard for a multi million corporation to have 2 guys downloading MODs and putting what they see as bad in a blacklist that the game will reject, or even easier make only MODs in a approved list capable of running ( again like 2 guys ) 


Edited by zed2204, Oct 25 2016 - 05:59.


Avalon304 #47 Posted Oct 25 2016 - 07:36

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View Postheavymetal1967, on Oct 24 2016 - 19:07, said:

Can of worms opened. And don't kill the messenger folks.

 

Someeone needs to get Ghostprime or someone at WG to clarify some things.

 

Copy pasting cause quoting a quoted section in the forums is a PITA.  Link here, http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/511145-how-do-i-get-get-more-results-other-than-in-game-reporting/page__pid__10377129#entry10377129

 


 

PM from GhostPrime who also covered a few other mods including zoom out and any reload timer that shows a reload in progress even if it's not a specific reload via data mining. 

 

Link to the post in another thread.  Also I agree it's not mentioned.  "Aimbots" are mentioned in the official thread and support articles.  But unlike some of the other mods there's no examples.

 

Also aimbot to many means targeting weak spots not necessarily an aiming mod.   That's why folks using aimbot to describe what many consider an aiming mod brings so much ire upon them.  And that's why many folks probably think it's legal because to them it's not an "aimbot" per se.

 

Bottom line that aiming mod or aimbot whatever one whats to call it is banned on NA.

 

Link to the post.  http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/510929-a-public-apology/page__pid__10372571#entry10372571

 

Nvm, I'll just copy/paste.  I'll enlarge the text re: Autoaim plus mod.

 

For clarification.  From a PM with GhostPrime.  He quoted my questions and replied in red.  Although it's a quote I'm changing his reply color to blue, removing some non relevant stuff and redacting names of a staffer and a mod pack author.  I also removed mention of an infamous illegal modpack. Other than that it's verbatim.

 

If you'll notice the staffer's linked reply  re: inside view range on the FOV no longer exists because it was incorrect and that mod is banned.  The quoted reply saying it is legal within view range was incorrect and that post has since been removed.

 

 

 

Again... in response to Autoaim+ GhostPrime responds with "Aimbots" which AutoAim+ doesnt qualify as. *sigh*

scyorkie #48 Posted Oct 25 2016 - 07:58

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View PostAvalon304, on Oct 25 2016 - 14:36, said:

Again... in response to Autoaim+ GhostPrime responds with "Aimbots" which AutoAim+ doesnt qualify as. *sigh*

 

It allows you to aim and lock on to an enemy without having LOS or even your mouse over him at any point in time. Why is it so hard to classify this as an aim bot?

 

Whether it aims center mass or at weak spots is irrelevant. The game never intended you to be able to aim in this manner.

 

Anyway, let's leave that mod out of this thread. There are plenty other threads for that.



Avalon304 #49 Posted Oct 25 2016 - 08:38

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View Postscyorkie, on Oct 24 2016 - 22:58, said:

 

It allows you to aim and lock on to an enemy without having LOS or even your mouse over him at any point in time. Why is it so hard to classify this as an aim bot?

 

Whether it aims center mass or at weak spots is irrelevant. The game never intended you to be able to aim in this manner.

 

Anyway, let's leave that mod out of this thread. There are plenty other threads for that.

 

Because an aim bots leads for you and aims for weakspots. Any other definition means the vanilla auto aim is also an aimbot, even though it clearly is not. I can easily use a zoom out mod to auto aim at a tank with out my tank having direct line of sight to them. And its not like you can auto aim when your cursor isnt near other tanks, it has to be close, and literally just enables ease of use of the stock auto while driving.

zed2204 #50 Posted Oct 25 2016 - 10:06

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View PostAvalon304, on Oct 25 2016 - 08:38, said:

 

Because an aim bots leads for you and aims for weakspots. Any other definition means the vanilla auto aim is also an aimbot, even though it clearly is not. I can easily use a zoom out mod to auto aim at a tank with out my tank having direct line of sight to them. And its not like you can auto aim when your cursor isnt near other tanks, it has to be close, and literally just enables ease of use of the stock auto while driving.

There isn't only one aimbot, and the one that Leeds and aims weakspots isn't the only illegal one

And auto aim is indeed aimbot, but a legal, WG approved and integrated in the vanilla so all have it, inferior to the illegal ones so it won't be game breaking but aimbot non the less

Currently there is a reason why you can't aim trough obstacles, around corners and zoom out more

Zooming out MODs aren't illegal but it is like the hit direction indicator, if all have it is  fine but when only some do , they have advantage 

 


Edited by zed2204, Oct 25 2016 - 10:08.


Avalon304 #51 Posted Oct 25 2016 - 11:14

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View Postzed2204, on Oct 25 2016 - 01:06, said:

There isn't only one aimbot, and the one that Leeds and aims weakspots isn't the only illegal one

And auto aim is indeed aimbot, but a legal, WG approved and integrated in the vanilla so all have it, inferior to the illegal ones so it won't be game breaking but aimbot non the less

Currently there is a reason why you can't aim trough obstacles, around corners and zoom out more

Zooming out MODs aren't illegal but it is like the hit direction indicator, if all have it is  fine but when only some do , they have advantage 

 

 

Auto aim is not an aim bot. If it was, it wouldnt be in the game. Aimbots aim for weakspots, and automatically lead the target. Thats what they do in pretty much every game thats ever had them.

 

Re Bold: Youve just described literally EVERY mod that isnt a tank skin...

 

Also, GhostPrime specifies aimbots that can "snap to" which implies no user interaction is needed for them to engage to targets behind cover.



zed2204 #52 Posted Oct 25 2016 - 17:25

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In pretty much every FPS where there is no shell travel time and any difference in what angle the bullet hits (or in some even where ) what is in WOT "auto aim" will be considered illegal aimbot
It is a program that controls targeting instead of you
What is in game just aims in the center of the tank and follows that, everyone has it, the game is balanced considering it so it ain't a problem
The illegal aimbots just do a better job that throws the balance out the window
But by definition auto aim and aimbot are the same - the computer tracking the target for you

 

 

And no, many mods are not beneficial at all, I find the visual ones overall even hindering

I watched allot of videos on MODs when I was starting and overall everything that was good was illegal (or it should be) 

I ended up using only QB's XVM mainly for the damage panel, and I don't even that for the last 3 patches

No problem with anime girls, damage panels, WN8 counters, skins, reticles and so on

Bu laser beams, load timers, turret direction, destroyed objects, aimbots, weakspot skins........

You really need that ? Wouldn't the victory taste better without it ?


Edited by zed2204, Oct 25 2016 - 17:38.


GhostPrime #53 Posted Oct 25 2016 - 17:59

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Here is a link to my post in another thread. This addresses the Turret indicator mod, as well as links to our prohibited Mod policy

 



__Pixy__ #54 Posted Oct 25 2016 - 18:53

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Yey

MastuhWaffles #55 Posted Oct 25 2016 - 19:59

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I just don't even use mods. It seems that Wargaming is finally getting around to adding in decent mod features to the game itself which is nice and I don't have to worry about everything breaking after an update. I can see why they decided to make the turret indicator mod illegal, however they should really make a proper list that you can look at on their website that is updated constantly so there should be no question on what is and is not legal.

ballyspringer #56 Posted Oct 25 2016 - 21:52

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Honestly I wish they would just say all mods are illegal and call it a day.  None of them are needed to play the game, most of them (but yes not all) assist with seal-clubbing and getting an advantage over someone who doesn't have them.

 

Make a check at log-in to see if you have mods or not and just don't connect if you do - it's not perfect and people can find a way around it but at least it's a start.

 

And yes I currently do like and use some of the graphical performance mods that are legal (no smoke from wrecks, no visible tank tracks, no explosion effects, etc) since my PC is older than dirt at this point, but honestly I think it should just be players telling WG what they would want to have and WG either implementing it in game with an update or saying no and here's why.



LeaveIT2Beaver #57 Posted Oct 26 2016 - 04:12

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View Postballyspringer, on Oct 25 2016 - 15:52, said:

Honestly I wish they would just say all mods are illegal and call it a day.  None of them are needed to play the game, most of them (but yes not all) assist with seal-clubbing and getting an advantage over someone who doesn't have them.

 

Make a check at log-in to see if you have mods or not and just don't connect if you do - it's not perfect and people can find a way around it but at least it's a start.

 

And yes I currently do like and use some of the graphical performance mods that are legal (no smoke from wrecks, no visible tank tracks, no explosion effects, etc) since my PC is older than dirt at this point, but honestly I think it should just be players telling WG what they would want to have and WG either implementing it in game with an update or saying no and here's why.

 

Some of them assist players with handicaps to enjoy the game as well. Your statement that none of them are needed to play the game is an opinion, not fact. And quite frankly, I do not want any game-site checking data on my system.  

As for advantages over other players, that logic falls apart. Mods are free to everyone. If you or anyone else does not use them, that's on you, not the mod user. And  the "seal clubbing" reference is way over the top.

 

No offense.


Edited by LeaveIT2Beaver, Oct 26 2016 - 04:15.


johnmadara #58 Posted Oct 26 2016 - 08:39

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View PostLeaveIT2Beaver, on Oct 26 2016 - 03:12, said:

 

Some of them assist players with handicaps to enjoy the game as well. Your statement that none of them are needed to play the game is an opinion, not fact. And quite frankly, I do not want any game-site checking data on my system.  

As for advantages over other players, that logic falls apart. Mods are free to everyone. If you or anyone else does not use them, that's on you, not the mod user. And  the "seal clubbing" reference is way over the top.

 

No offense.

 

thats just flawed logic... this isnt a single player game... if you are bad and you know you are bad and you know you need these assistant mods to be half decent then go play farmville, multiplayer clearly isnt for you

Edited by johnmadara, Oct 26 2016 - 08:39.


LeaveIT2Beaver #59 Posted Oct 26 2016 - 15:01

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View Postjohnmadara, on Oct 26 2016 - 02:39, said:

 

thats just flawed logic... this isnt a single player game... if you are bad and you know you are bad and you know you need these assistant mods to be half decent then go play farmville, multiplayer clearly isnt for you

 

Sorry, but your rebuttal falls apart at the beginning. Mods are free to everyone in this multi-player game. If you or anyone else does not use them, that's on you, not the mod user.  It has nothing to do with being  bad or being good in a pixel game. If  you dont want to use legal mods, that is your business. If I chose to that is my business. But thanks for confirming what I said! :great: Thanks for letting me play YOUR game.

 You must know a lot about Farmville. You like the ducks? I must try it one day. See you there!


Edited by LeaveIT2Beaver, Oct 26 2016 - 15:05.


kebab6597 #60 Posted Oct 26 2016 - 15:24

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View PostBavor, on Oct 23 2016 - 16:59, said:

 

I guess nobody remembers what Sela was banned for and keeps spreading misinformation.  Sela was not banned for the turret direction mod.

 

Sela was using the mod that shows destroyed objects on the minimap.  At the time Wargamign didn't say it was illegal to use.  However a Wargamign employee watching Sela's stream banned Sela for using it.  Then Sela logged into another coconut he had an continued playing.

 

Sela was actually banned for circumventing the ban by logging into an outer account and not using the proper process to appeal the ban.

I remember why Sela was banned and your right his main offence was the destroyed objects despite the other dubious mods he was using at the time  however after his ban a dev published a list of banned mods and mod types Tanitha I think it was

 

One of the main things on that list was the line which is basically open to interpretation by individual users "any mod which gives an advantage to the user" with that in mind I have allways classed the gun direction mod as illegal and never used it myself as it gives the user a pretty significant advantage

 

Hopefully one day WG will take the ability to mod the client completely away then there will be no more grey areas regarding mods and cheats






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