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Choo choo goes the Lemming train!


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blackfalconjc #1 Posted Nov 15 2016 - 16:03

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So coming off a x5 weekend, and of course during a campaign, but pubbie matches are just painful right now. It seems like the majority of games are a strong 1 sided push. I've tried making sure the push doesn't stall out (and then running back to cap to protect our base because our other side has fallen). I've also tried stalling out the incoming push (and getting swarmed by 5-6 enemy tanks rushing in). But I still find myself frustrated by the lack of consistency. If I take anything slow at all or that can't carry hard, the game is pretty much over in 5 minutes with a blowout win or loss. I've practically permanently parked my AT-8 because it can't deal with 5 tanks, and you can't get to the front to push as it's too slow! Also, apparently MM hates my Caernavon... (While 22 games is a small sample size, it feels like about 80% of the time I'm bottom tier)

 

Anyhow, what's your strategy for dealing with lemming trains? Go with and help push? Stay and help the unprotected side? Farm as much damage before you're killed? :P Let hear it!



MagillaGuerilla #2 Posted Nov 15 2016 - 16:11

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I go hull down on the weak flank and try to hold out for as long as possible. At least it keeps a few enemy occupied for a couple of minutes that the train can use to push.

RushingJaws #3 Posted Nov 15 2016 - 16:18

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AT8 isn't a vehicle you can carry in. It's actually complete garbage.

 

If you don't think you can stall a push, don't bother. Fall back to a second spot and take shots, repeating as necessary to stretch a game out. You don't need to defend the approach to the cap circle at all costs. It's often easier (map dependent) to keep it defended from a distance with resets, as most players will stay on cap stubbornly instead of driving off when they realize they'll be reset continuously.



TheGhostCat #4 Posted Nov 15 2016 - 16:40

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I haven't played in 3 weeks - hopped back on this morning and by the second game I was already calling people idiots - but the third I was ready to just quit (watching my 43-45% team get steam rolled by a 46-48% team).

 

The last game, game 4, just flat out pissed me off: I finally see paris is game, I'm a t6 med in a t8 game - other team gets 4 pro players platooned in tanks that are OP at t8...we get baddies, playing bad tanks.

 

Gee tanks MM for fair shake today. Every team...top skill player: me...

 

I just want to play - and not get absolutely crapped on by MM.


Edited by TheGhostCat, Nov 15 2016 - 16:40.


lnvade #5 Posted Nov 15 2016 - 17:34

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I would suggest you play stronkholds then. I cant do pubs all day even if its an event. That's how I picked up my Maus and M48 Patton.  

blackfalconjc #6 Posted Nov 15 2016 - 17:49

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View PostRushingJaws, on Nov 15 2016 - 10:18, said:

AT8 isn't a vehicle you can carry in. It's actually complete garbage.

 

If you don't think you can stall a push, don't bother. Fall back to a second spot and take shots, repeating as necessary to stretch a game out. You don't need to defend the approach to the cap circle at all costs. It's often easier (map dependent) to keep it defended from a distance with resets, as most players will stay on cap stubbornly instead of driving off when they realize they'll be reset continuously.

 

After the AT-2, and having the AT-15a, it's a complete letdown... I think it's the very limited gun traverse and the huge cupola that really sink the vehicle. I tried about 5-6 times to try and pick up the 5x win in it for the weekend (as I eventually want to get the 183), but it was just too painful. I foresee some Free XP getting burnt on that line...

 

And I do try to fall back, whenever possible. It's just I'll be holding with 2-3 other tanks and then they just boogie at the sight of 3-4 enemy tanks headed their way. In a lot of the corridors, the places you need to defend unfortunately need some backup flank support to effectively hold (which you just don't get from your team). And yeah, good reminder on the cap, except I've gotten bit a couple of games. Like north spawn on Serene Cost. Pushed down the West, went back for resets, we still lost because the lemming train stalled out on their cap, and we didn't have people brave enough to peek around and shoot the cappers on our side, despite having a 5-6 tank lead. 

 

That's why I'm mostly playing mediums and heavies that play like mediums because in order to win you have to be able to win at least 1/4 of the match by yourself...



blackfalconjc #7 Posted Nov 15 2016 - 17:54

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View PostBothan_Spy, on Nov 15 2016 - 11:34, said:

I would suggest you play stronkholds then. I cant do pubs all day even if its an event. That's how I picked up my Maus and M48 Patton.  

 

Our clan is heavily involved in the ongoing campaign, and due to personal reasons, I'm not able to dedicate the time to being on 5-6 hours a night to qualify for a tank. As such, those not in matches are on stand-by to help out with teams. Heck, we got pulled in to an emergency match last night and I called it for a win (via cap) despite being down 2 tanks.

 

The other problem with that is it's only tiers 6, 8, 10 for SH, and 10 is pretty much a ghost town. So Tier 7 and 9 get no love if you're grinding a tank. I've got a number of tanks where I did the grind almost entirely via SH (Skoda T25 for one). 



FranzStigler #8 Posted Nov 15 2016 - 18:09

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View Postblackfalconjc, on Nov 15 2016 - 10:03, said:

... I've tried making sure the push doesn't stall out (and then running back to cap to protect our base because our other side has fallen). ...

You need to gain control of a flank, one way or another. If faced with a lemming train, and if you try to fight alone on the neglected flank, you are usually going to die. It is usually the proper tactic to cover all flanks, but when the lemming train has left the station, losing your gun, isolated, while heroically covering the neglected flank isn't the answer. You need to do as you say -- be flexible, be aware of the need to go back to spot/reset, keep pressure on the flank to keep moving, and make sure that your team gets control of at least the one flank. 



strenfoo #9 Posted Nov 15 2016 - 18:12

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View Postblackfalconjc, on Nov 15 2016 - 09:03, said:

Go with and help push? Stay and help the unprotected side? Farm as much damage before you're killed?

 

Any one of those.  Which one I choose depends on the tank, what tier I am, and the map.  Most of the time, you're going to lose anyway so I just try to stay alive as long as possible and get as much damage as I can.

Edited by strenfoo, Nov 15 2016 - 18:13.


dynamicGameplay #10 Posted Nov 15 2016 - 22:27

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It really depends on what map it is, what type of tanks will likely be on the empty flank in addition to the lineup of the enemy team.

If nobody goes valley on lakeville for example then that's fine, anyone on the middle road can easily defend the cap.

 

It's just about always better to make sure your force doesn't stop and just steamrolls whatever the enemy sends to that flank, while keeping a close eye on the map. If the team all goes to one flank and plays passively it's over.

Reiterating how important it is to pay attention to the map, not just in this situation but all the time.

Unfortunately being a hero doesn't pay off in world of tanks. If you stay behind, you'll just get steamrolled if the enemy team is at all competent because they'll know you're alone and pose very little threat.

 

 



sdrevik #11 Posted Nov 17 2016 - 15:55

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TDs are bad for holding the flanks, as it just takes two lights/meds to take it out, no matter how much HT or armor it has.    Better to have a TD and a med to protect it than two TDs.

 

Yeah, I feel like I have to at least be a 'speedbump' if the team lemmings.



eisen1973 #12 Posted Nov 24 2016 - 08:06

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Don't be that guy who goes alone to the empty flank to cover it because "somebody has to go there". You will be overrun and the flank lost anyway. What I usually do is folding the flank. If you don't want to join the lemmings then position yourself in the back of the train facing the base, hence forming a new front of battle that will give time to your lemmings to succeed (or not). You give that flank away but the enemy will take some time in noticing this and reaching your (defensive) position, where you can be supported by TD's and arty.



Jeil #13 Posted Nov 25 2016 - 00:33

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you cant scout for lemmings...yolo and save 4 minutes of your life...idk how arty does it cuz lemming train just means arty gonna die...

scHnuuudle_bop #14 Posted Dec 03 2016 - 21:37

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I got very frustrated about 6 months ago, during a series of matches, mostly about gold ammo and the lemming train. During a horrible match with a lemming train, I was trying to defend the flag as I thought it was the best thing to do. And as so many seem to do, I started the (silly) typing about morons who cannot read a map, un-install etc etc. I then started to be pelted by the 5 fast red mediums with gold ammo. (we won the match in the end) Well 1 of the red guys was a WG gold league player, he seemed very concerned about  my furious red faced typing about idiots who cannot read a map and evil enemies who use ******* premium ammo. He offered to platoon with me and help out my game, we played like that for 3 hours. I learnt a lot, and one of his best pieces of advice was to follow the lemming train, add your gun to the train, if possible even move up and lead it. I was using another account I play with mostly heavies. He pointed out that the lemming trains frequently fail because a lot of the time they do not see they have overwhelming numbers and either do not realize it, or do not want to be the first around that corner or rock. I learnt to take some damage by moving over that hill where the reds are, use the armor on my conqueror, deal as much damage as possible, light up as many as possible and like magic (most of time) the train restarts, follows and presto we win the flank and move on as the reds are distracted and occupied with me.  He also pointed out that the bulk of greens running back to flag as the reds start flowing into our CAP area isn't the best strategy . It seems to be a natural instinct to either defend the flag or a points quest. Continue the train, the greens can both, clean up their defenders and arty, start the CAP and the bulk are free to follow the reds path back to our base and start on them from their rear. It is a less direct route to defend but we begin to defend in numbers and from an unexpected direction. 

Edited by scHnuuudle_bop, Dec 03 2016 - 21:40.


sdrevik #15 Posted Dec 08 2016 - 00:10

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Play Tier 6 and below.   Lower tier players tend to deploy in a more balanced fashion.   Lemming trains seem to be related to the farming of WN8.   I've found mid-tier and lower-tier players to be much more pleasant.

MichiganMike #16 Posted Dec 27 2016 - 00:18

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View Postblackfalconjc, on Nov 15 2016 - 10:03, said:

So coming off a x5 weekend, and of course during a campaign, but pubbie matches are just painful right now. It seems like the majority of games are a strong 1 sided push. I've tried making sure the push doesn't stall out (and then running back to cap to protect our base because our other side has fallen). I've also tried stalling out the incoming push (and getting swarmed by 5-6 enemy tanks rushing in). But I still find myself frustrated by the lack of consistency. If I take anything slow at all or that can't carry hard, the game is pretty much over in 5 minutes with a blowout win or loss. I've practically permanently parked my AT-8 because it can't deal with 5 tanks, and you can't get to the front to push as it's too slow! Also, apparently MM hates my Caernavon... (While 22 games is a small sample size, it feels like about 80% of the time I'm bottom tier)

 

Anyhow, what's your strategy for dealing with lemming trains? Go with and help push? Stay and help the unprotected side? Farm as much damage before you're killed? :P Let hear it!

 

The lemming rush is painful to witness and to play along side of. It truly is like a mob of lemmings. Nothing one says will deter them. They just keep following the guy in front of them. What is more painful is to watch the lemming rush stall out when 2-3 enemy tanks start handing out some hits. If the lemmings would realize they had a numerical superiority (i.e. read their maps) they could exploit their advantage. 

 

Usually, the lemmings keep rushing. Usually, they stall out somewhere. And then the game is lost. Often there is nothing one can do. To your question, I will try and support the weak side. If I have arty backing me up, I will spot for them. 



ShadowDancer27 #17 Posted Dec 27 2016 - 03:03

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Lemming trains can work if they are decisive without being reckless.  Sometime the illusion of advantage makes the players on the strong flank careless.  But if they focus fire and keep moving they will generally trade well.  The key is the decision point whether to go forward, defend or split.  Very few trains will ever turn even if there is zero chance for success going forward.

landedkiller #18 Posted Jan 04 2017 - 15:18

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I feel we need to discourage this tactic wherever we can sometimes if I ask nicely two other tanks will come with me and we will flank the enemy team and actually win the lemming trains always die out because of tanks like the is-3 and 6




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