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In Favor of a Soviet Sherman Tank


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Cossack_13 #1 Posted Dec 28 2016 - 18:02

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I know it's come up before but I'd like to again suggest (request?) an inclusion of a Russian Sherman tank, most likely as a Premium tank to avoid having to make any Tech Tree adaptations. 
 

The reason is simply a semi-historical "want to have" scenario. A total of 4,102 M4A2 medium tanks were sent to the U.S.S.R. under Lend-Lease. The total for the M4A2 Sherman was 2,007 with an additional 2,095 with the 76mm gun. In comparison, the Soviets would receive 1,084 Matilda Mk II's and 301 Churchills.
 

Source: http://ww2-weapons.com/lend-lease-tanks-and-aircrafts/
 

The M4A2 already exists in the game as the British Sherman Mk.III and the currently unavailable M4A2E4 American Premium tank. Both of these have the General Motors 6046 engine that was used for the Lend-Lease tanks.
 

Additional reading on the Soviet Shermans: https://www.quora.com/What-did-the-soviets-think-of-the-M4-sherman and http://www.nebraskapress.unl.edu/product/Commanding-the-Red-Armys-Sherman-Tanks,671491.aspx.


An argument could be made for either the 75 or 76 mm gun (the M4A2E4 has the 75) although 76mm-equipped tanks shipped in greater numbers.


Do we need this? No, I'd just like to have one.



CapPhrases #2 Posted Dec 28 2016 - 18:13

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not more russian prems! please man the flood is already ridiculous

stalkervision #3 Posted Dec 28 2016 - 18:29

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i would like to see a new model premium marder td. there were many types of marder tds and wots only has a very few.

 

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/marder-marten-series.htm



Mokoma #4 Posted Dec 28 2016 - 18:33

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We have more than enough shermans in the game already.

Cutthroatlemur #5 Posted Dec 28 2016 - 18:35

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Yes OP, +1

 

we have tons of tanks in the game that are not historical, yet there were thousands of Shermans used by the USSR.  This should be included.



RedStarZhukov #6 Posted Dec 28 2016 - 18:54

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View PostCossack_13, on Dec 28 2016 - 12:02, said:

I know it's come up before but I'd like to again suggest (request?) an inclusion of a Russian Sherman tank, most likely as a Premium tank to avoid having to make any Tech Tree adaptations. 
 

The reason is simply a semi-historical "want to have" scenario. A total of 4,102 M4A2 medium tanks were sent to the U.S.S.R. under Lend-Lease. The total for the M4A2 Sherman was 2,007 with an additional 2,095 with the 76mm gun. In comparison, the Soviets would receive 1,084 Matilda Mk II's and 301 Churchills.
 

Source: http://ww2-weapons.com/lend-lease-tanks-and-aircrafts/
 

The M4A2 already exists in the game as the British Sherman Mk.III and the currently unavailable M4A2E4 American Premium tank. Both of these have the General Motors 6046 engine that was used for the Lend-Lease tanks.
 

Additional reading on the Soviet Shermans: https://www.quora.com/What-did-the-soviets-think-of-the-M4-sherman and http://www.nebraskapress.unl.edu/product/Commanding-the-Red-Armys-Sherman-Tanks,671491.aspx.


An argument could be made for either the 75 or 76 mm gun (the M4A2E4 has the 75) although 76mm-equipped tanks shipped in greater numbers.


Do we need this? No, I'd just like to have one.

 

Hmmmmm a Soviet Sherman Tank, very interesting of a topic to consider or even discuss.  SO, with that being said...........................

 

ONTO the topic!

 

So Lean/Lease Act and a Soviet Sherman being put into WoTs even as a premium would it fly?  Few things to consider.............

 

1:  Did it exist, or was it even plausible?

 

Well one link...........

 

https://en.wikipedia...rman_tanks#USSR

 

Does point out a picture of an M4A2 near Smolensk.

 

Picture..............

 

 

Rather this is legit or not well it's Wikipedia so yeah.....................probably did happen.

 

Other sources...............

 

http://www.thesherma...ed-the-sherman/

 

Okay, so hands down is there source material?  YES!  Is it all legit?  Eh maybe so, but still open for interpretation.

 

 

2:  Is it applicable for for WoTs?

 

This one I am a bit skeptical on, including being a Russian Tech Tree player like myself.  If you really look at the Tech Tree, some of the Russian tanks might be a little questionable but not completely.............case in point?

 

A-43, Tier VI good speed for a medium and turn ratio.  Survival Rating is 80 I think so not too bad.  Down side?  Tier V 57mm and 76mm gun.  Great RoF, dispersion eh, and penetration so so just as long as you shoot on the go your good.

 

Overall, there could be always a descent tank to add, but ALSO there could be improvements on the existing tank.  A Sherman M4A2 probably is going to carry the same stats as maybe the American counterparts and why?  Because it was a Lend Lease Tank that's why!  It could be possible if any source material can be found on armaments if the Soviet Union used their own guns?  Or they just stuck with the stock weapons that was shipped to them on the M4.  So for me Applicable would come down to historical documentation plus game balance.  But applicable?  Possibly....................

 

3:  How will the players take to the tank?

 

This is going to be the big make or break opportunity for World of Tanks....................the reception of the Soviet Sherman.  Already in my opinion there are plenty in game.  American Tech Tree, British, and yes even the FRENCH have a Sherman premium as well being a Tier VIII.  So how Wargaming approaches it, how serious the players take to it is all going to come into play.

 

My personal thoughts?

 

 

Oh yes, DO IT..............and if the stats are good?  May the players weep again before Soviet Might.  LOLZ!  :trollface:


Edited by RedStarZhukov, Dec 28 2016 - 19:09.


YANKEE137 #7 Posted Dec 28 2016 - 18:58

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Doesn't really need to even be premium, a soviet skin would be sufficient- but they seem to have no interest in skins and such. I think it's a source of money they have never tapped. You grind for an M4 Sherman and you can then set it up as US army or Royal Tank Regiment or Guards Armored or USMC or Free French. Each tank doesn't need specific abilities, we just want the dress them up.

 



RedStarZhukov #8 Posted Dec 28 2016 - 19:03

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View PostCapPhrases, on Dec 28 2016 - 12:13, said:

not more russian prems! please man the flood is already ridiculous

 

Awh, hate the sight of the Red Army Tech Tree on the field of battle?  Have no fear pony comrade Russian Bears only hunt bigger prey.  -Snickers-

Cossack_13 #9 Posted Dec 28 2016 - 19:06

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View PostLord_Hiney, on Dec 28 2016 - 12:33, said:

We have more than enough shermans in the game already.


Hey, the US made a lot of them and shipped them all over the place. Having the game reflect that isn't going to break anything.
 

View PostCapPhrases, on Dec 28 2016 - 12:13, said:

not more russian prems! please man the flood is already ridiculous

 

Make no mistake about it, they will make more.

 


Edited by Cossack_13, Dec 28 2016 - 19:10.


CapPhrases #10 Posted Dec 28 2016 - 19:11

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View PostRedStarZhukov, on Dec 28 2016 - 13:03, said:

 

Awh, hate the sight of the Red Army Tech Tree on the field of battle?  Have no fear pony comrade Russian Bears only hunt bigger prey.  -Snickers-

 

actually the fact is there are so many russian heavy prems. i only need one.

aethervox #11 Posted Dec 28 2016 - 19:12

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Sure, good idea.

If there were that many Lend Lease Shermans that got shipped to Russia then, by all means, add it as a premium tank to the Russian tech tree.

I'm all for historical inclusions into WoT.



RedStarZhukov #12 Posted Dec 28 2016 - 19:22

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View PostCapPhrases, on Dec 28 2016 - 13:11, said:

 

actually the fact is there are so many russian heavy prems. i only need one.

 

Well it's good to know I pick the IS-3 for VIII or even IS-7 or 4 for Tier X any day over 6.........and you know why?

 

 

 

=

 

 

 

PAPER ARMOR!

 

 

:trollface:



CapPhrases #13 Posted Dec 28 2016 - 19:30

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i went for the 220-2.

aethervox #14 Posted Dec 28 2016 - 19:54

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View PostCossack_13, on Dec 28 2016 - 19:06, said:


Hey, the US made a lot of them and shipped them all over the place. Having the game reflect that isn't going to break anything.
 

 

Make no mistake about it, they will make more.

 

 

Hey, Cossack_13, I intentionally placed a Helsinki city coat of arms emblem on my Sherman because the emblem has a ship symbol on it which is to represent (to me) a Lend Lease vehicle, lol.

n4cer67 #15 Posted Dec 28 2016 - 20:15

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Which variant would you want? You might could add a poll option to your post as to which variant would be popular. These would be premiums with these skins like the Rudy, Scorpion, and Berlins. Of course if there were any better guns used on these that would be nice to include as well. Skin mods would be useless because they wouldn't be on a premium tank.

#1



#2


#3


#4



 


Edited by n4cer67, Dec 29 2016 - 03:21.


RedStarZhukov #16 Posted Dec 29 2016 - 01:22

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View Postn4cer67, on Dec 28 2016 - 14:15, said:

Which variant would you want? You might could add a poll option to your post as to which variant would be popular.

#1



#2


#3


#4



 

 

Hmmmm interesting idea.  Including for the variants as well.  Now I don't know rather you mean just the skins or armaments or both?  But definitely a good idea.  :great:

NK_33 #17 Posted Dec 29 2016 - 01:42

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What I'd like to see is the Sherman experiment that mounted the Soviet 85mm in a Sherman turret.  Like the Firefly, it sort of worked, but the Soviets still preferred the 75 and 76mm armed Emchas.

WulfeHound #18 Posted Dec 29 2016 - 02:06

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View PostNK_33, on Dec 28 2016 - 19:42, said:

What I'd like to see is the Sherman experiment that mounted the Soviet 85mm in a Sherman turret.  Like the Firefly, it sort of worked, but the Soviets still preferred the 75 and 76mm armed Emchas.

 

Source on that? Not trying to be rude, just curious.

 

OP: I'd rather not have yet another copy-paste premium. How about something a bit more unique, like the SO-122?



strike_07 #19 Posted Dec 29 2016 - 02:45

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View PostWulfeHound, on Dec 29 2016 - 02:06, said:

 

Source on that? Not trying to be rude, just curious.

 

OP: I'd rather not have yet another copy-paste premium. How about something a bit more unique, like the SO-122?

 

That tank is great, here I leave a little information:

 

The SO-122 is a variation of the m4 sherman made in Yugoslavia, but can be introduced into the Russian technological tree, this one will change the 75mm gun to one of A-19 122mm gun, and also the standard engine by the engine that Uses the T-34 (V-2 engine)

For me it would be great to be introduced to the game as a tier 8 premium tank


Edited by strike_07, Dec 29 2016 - 02:46.


WulfeHound #20 Posted Dec 29 2016 - 02:59

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View Poststrike_07, on Dec 28 2016 - 20:45, said:

 

That tank is great, here I leave a little information:

 

The SO-122 is a variation of the m4 sherman made in Yugoslavia, but can be introduced into the Russian technological tree, this one will change the 75mm gun to one of A-19 122mm gun, and also the standard engine by the engine that Uses the T-34 (V-2 engine)

For me it would be great to be introduced to the game as a tier 8 premium tank

 

Try more like a tier 7. 175/217 pen won't cut it at tier 8 unless it gets pref MM which isn't going to happen. Also, gun depression is a whopping -2 degrees.




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