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Israeli Tanks


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Nightmare_448 #1 Posted Jan 06 2017 - 23:41

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I was watching the military history channel when I saw an old photo of what looked like a Sherman hull with an amx 13 turret. Being a WoT person, this intrigued me. I found out it was called a Super Sherman. Will Israel ever get its own tank tree or will this super Sherman be put into the game somehow? 

 

https://en.m.wikiped...i/Super_Sherman



Demonic_Angel_of_Death #2 Posted Jan 06 2017 - 23:55

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Its Sherman M-50 and Sherman M-51... the tank you're talking about is Sherman FL-10 is not either of those, but a different vehicle...

 

So what, we're going to put in an Israeli tree with 3 Semi-Original Shermans, and some Merkavas... and everything else be clones?


Edited by Demonic_Angel_of_Death, Jan 07 2017 - 00:03.


Legiondude #3 Posted Jan 06 2017 - 23:57

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The research/lobbying topic for the NA forums is over here

_Freddy_ #4 Posted Jan 06 2017 - 23:57

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View PostNightmare_448, on Jan 06 2017 - 22:41, said:

I was watching the military history channel when I saw an old photo of what looked like a Sherman hull with an amx 13 turret. Being a WoT person, this intrigued me. I found out it was called a Super Sherman. Will Israel ever get its own tank tree or will this super Sherman be put into the game somehow? 

 

https://en.m.wikiped...i/Super_Sherman

 

The Israeli M50 (New French 75mm gun armed) and M51 (New French 105mm gun armed) tanks were not called Super Shermans or the often quoted Ishermans. The M51 is in game (in a way) as the French M4A1 Revalorisé

 

The Sherman with the AMX 13 FL10 style ocilating turret was an Egyptian vehicle captured by the Israelis and on display at Latrun



ju0128 #5 Posted Jan 06 2017 - 23:57

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Basically french M4 Revioly

Postal_Monkey #6 Posted Jan 06 2017 - 23:57

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Since most of the tanks in WoT are circa 1920-1960, filling out a full tree on Israel might be difficult based on the 1948 inception date of the nation. I mean, Italy still does not have a tree and they have tanks from the 1920's I'd think they'd be here at some point first.



BarePotato #7 Posted Jan 07 2017 - 00:03

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Wouldnt really be a point, the large majority of Israeli armor came from tanks that already exist in WoT. You would literally be duplicating tanks. Outside of their modern tanks(Merkava) of course, but those don't fit the game.

Bolo_MkXX_Tremendous_DMD #8 Posted Jan 07 2017 - 00:11

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They probably should be but after the Italian tanks to be sure.

 

I don't care if they release an Italian premium now and wait many months for the tree, just as long as they have one.



Master_Beater #9 Posted Jan 07 2017 - 00:25

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View PostNightmare_448, on Jan 06 2017 - 14:41, said:

I was watching the military history channel when I saw an old photo of what looked like a Sherman hull with an amx 13 turret. Being a WoT person, this intrigued me. I found out it was called a Super Sherman. Will Israel ever get its own tank tree or will this super Sherman be put into the game somehow? 

 

https://en.m.wikiped...i/Super_Sherman

 

If there is money to be made, and if,.,, if Wargaming could also create other Tiers so that American and Russian tanks can fight in tanks from the 80s and 90s. :(

Life_In_Black #10 Posted Jan 07 2017 - 00:36

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View PostPostal_Monkey, on Jan 06 2017 - 18:57, said:

Since most of the tanks in WoT are circa 1920-1960, filling out a full tree on Israel might be difficult based on the 1948 inception date of the nation. I mean, Italy still does not have a tree and they have tanks from the 1920's I'd think they'd be here at some point first.

 

Sherman M-50 is from the mid 1950s, while the Sherman M-51 is from 1961. First Merkava 1 prototypes (as in the final prototypes before production) were from 1974, with Merkava 1 Testbeds of various types (including one based on a heavily modified Centurion chassis with an M48 turret) being from 1970-1971 or so. So there really isn't anything keeping Israeli tanks from being added with the exception of low tiers being copy-paste. Even then, the issue could be circumvented if Wargaming so chooses. As for the nation date of 1948, that's also technically the nation date for the People's Republic of China IIRC, so it's also not an issue.

 

View PostBareknuckle, on Jan 06 2017 - 19:03, said:

Wouldnt really be a point, the large majority of Israeli armor came from tanks that already exist in WoT. You would literally be duplicating tanks. Outside of their modern tanks(Merkava) of course, but those don't fit the game.

 

The Merkava 1 is actually WoT-viable, and is not too modern at all. There is no forbidden technology whatsoever, as the tank was cobbled together from existing parts due to Israel's limited infrastructure at the time. In terms of fighting ability, the Merkava 1 is about on par with an M60A1, and in some areas, it's actually worse than the M60A1.

riff_ #11 Posted Jan 07 2017 - 01:02

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View PostNightmare_448, on Jan 06 2017 - 17:41, said:

Will Israel ever get its own tank tree or will this super Sherman be put into the game somehow? 

 

https://en.m.wikiped...i/Super_Sherman

 

​I have read on the forum a while back, when this subject came up, that most likely no.  One reason was that players on the EU and RU servers would not play in an Israeli tank because of the dislike for Jews people.  Sounds crazy, I know.  But....

 

To bad too, because any new line, with good performing tanks medium would be a nice thing.

 

 



CanOfTomatoes #12 Posted Jan 07 2017 - 01:07

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All Wot has to do is create three more top tiers and populate them with '60s to 70s tanks. add on to the current tree lines for all current nations.

CanOfTomatoes #13 Posted Jan 07 2017 - 01:08

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View Postriff_, on Jan 06 2017 - 18:02, said:

 

​I have read on the forum a while back, when this subject came up, that most likely no.  One reason was that players on the EU and RU servers would not play in an Israeli tank because of the dislike for Jews people.  Sounds crazy, I know.  But....

 

To bad too, because any new line, with good performing tanks medium would be a nice thing.

 

 

 

This is ridiculous

riff_ #14 Posted Jan 07 2017 - 01:10

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View PostCanOfTomatoes, on Jan 06 2017 - 19:08, said:

 

This is ridiculous

 

​Your trolling is what is ridiculous.

 

And I am surprised that I have not moved you to the Ignore file. 

 

Shall have to do something about that.

 

EDIT:  All fix.  :)


Edited by riff_, Jan 07 2017 - 01:13.


CanOfTomatoes #15 Posted Jan 07 2017 - 01:22

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View Postriff_, on Jan 06 2017 - 18:10, said:

 

​Your trolling is what is ridiculous.

 

And I am surprised that I have not moved you to the Ignore file. 

 

Shall have to do something about that.

 

EDIT:  All fix.  :)

 

Shrugs...must be an advocate of what he posted.

Life_In_Black #16 Posted Jan 07 2017 - 01:26

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View Postriff_, on Jan 06 2017 - 20:02, said:

 

​I have read on the forum a while back, when this subject came up, that most likely no.  One reason was that players on the EU and RU servers would not play in an Israeli tank because of the dislike for Jews people.  Sounds crazy, I know.  But....

 

To bad too, because any new line, with good performing tanks medium would be a nice thing.

 

 

 

Wargaming has never cared about such things. They added a Polish tank to the Soviet tech tree, and brought back Stalin inscriptions despite multiple European protests over it. Plus, Wargaming has been considering an Israeli tree for years now, since the game began. And most people don't care thing one about what country the vehicles come from, they're only interested in if the vehicles are good or not.

Nightmare_448 #17 Posted Jan 07 2017 - 04:25

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Thanks for the replies!

BarePotato #18 Posted Jan 07 2017 - 06:48

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View PostLife_In_Black, on Jan 06 2017 - 18:36, said:

The Merkava 1 is actually WoT-viable, and is not too modern at all. There is no forbidden technology whatsoever, as the tank was cobbled together from existing parts due to Israel's limited infrastructure at the time. In terms of fighting ability, the Merkava 1 is about on par with an M60A1, and in some areas, it's actually worse than the M60A1.

 

"Cobbled together".... no it wasn't. the very large majority of the tank was built from scratch by Israeli companies. "Limited infrastructure", again no, see first response. M60A1! LAUGHABLE. The mk1 Merkava made the brand new Russian T-72 look like a dead pigeon. The m60a1 isn't in the same reality as the Merkava. But yeah, spew some more [edited].



Life_In_Black #19 Posted Jan 07 2017 - 14:28

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View PostBareknuckle, on Jan 07 2017 - 01:48, said:

 

"Cobbled together".... no it wasn't. the very large majority of the tank was built from scratch by Israeli companies. "Limited infrastructure", again no, see first response. M60A1! LAUGHABLE. The mk1 Merkava made the brand new Russian T-72 look like a dead pigeon. The m60a1 isn't in the same reality as the Merkava. But yeah, spew some more [edited].

 

You haven't done any research I see. Israel literally had to import and start from scratch the casting technology in order to make certain parts of the Merkava 1's chassis and turret. They did this using steel imported from South Africa of all places. And, top it off, pretty much every single component of the Merkava 1 was taken from something else. Please explain to me what exactly is Israeli about the following:

 

105mm L7/M68 cannon

Continental AVDS-1790 engine

Allison CD-850-6 transmission

Horstmann suspension

Centurion tracks

AN/VRC-12 radio

FN MAG secondary weapons

Cadillac Gage stabilization system

M13 Ballistic Computer

 

Yes, truly all of this stuff (which I might add, is literally everything about it that makes it, you know, a tank), was "built from scratch by Israeli companies". Hell, even the chassis is mostly welded together as Israel couldn't cast entire tanks and had to do little sections at a time and then weld them together. And yes, the tank is worse than an M60A1, parts of the upper glascis are only 20-30mm thick, not to mention the sides are only 50mm thick or so, all while weighing more than both the M60A1, Sho't Kal, and Magach 3 that were all in service at the time.

 

As for taking on T-72s, I should point out that the T-72 wasn't brand new, and that in Lebanon the Israelis were using the brand new 105mm M-111 Hetz ammuniton, so no Israeli tank had trouble taking on T-72s. By your logic, anti-tank weapons make all tanks look like wet cardboard. Oh wait, from Lebanon in 1982:


 

Literally, the Israelis didn't even test the damn Merkava 1 before it entered service, they went right from a final prototype to full production (which even then took three years to make enough of them to enter service, that's how much they were making it up as they went along in terms of infrastructure to build the thing), and completely skipped any kind of military pre-production series to test it out. It's first tests by the army came under fire during the 1982 Lebanon conflict, and why the Merkava 2 had the extra armor on the turret, chains at the back preventing a shot trap (which I might add, all Merkavas have for some reason, you'd think they'd fix it by now, instead of using chains as a band aid for it), and a different, German transmission, this time by Renk, because the Allison CD-850-6 couldn't handle the weight of the Merkava 1 under combat conditions. So again, there is nothing new, or high tech, or modern at all about the Merkava, and it fits fine in World of Tanks.



Bolo_MkXX_Tremendous_DMD #20 Posted Jan 07 2017 - 17:23

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Perfect summary and good reasoning!  I would like to see that in the game.

 

 

 

after Italian tanks.






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