Jump to content


M3 Lee... Advice, and which tank next


  • Please log in to reply
50 replies to this topic

Boghie #21 Posted Jan 08 2017 - 23:18

    Corporal

  • -Players-
  • 2693 battles
  • 93
  • Member since:
    04-10-2016

View PostGollumsFish, on Jan 08 2017 - 14:10, said:

How not to play the Lee.

1. See M4 Sherman (or really anything) on the other side of the ridge or hill

2. Back off a bit

3. Then try to creep up and poke over the ridge to shoot him

4. Then wonder why you are getting hit by him before you can even see his silhouette

 

The Lee is freaking tall, and the gun is on the bottom. They can see your outline before you can see theirs. So don't get in ridge-poking battles.

 

GollumsFish,

 

Have to concur.  Figured that out earlier.  Watched some videos, but the last game absolutely demonstrated the problem.  His outline is below the ridge line, mine was obviously skylined.

 

My problem is that the Kraut tanks have emphasized hull down ridge line mobile tactics.  Oh well.  I'm not completely stupid so I will adjust and overcome.  Just never really watched my teams TDs get into position before - and I can tell they hate it when I drive my semi truck anywhere near them.



Ken_McGuire #22 Posted Jan 08 2017 - 23:25

    Captain

  • Players
  • 22095 battles
  • 1,050
  • Member since:
    12-21-2012

The Lee is an infamous struggle. Going through tiers 1-3 was so easy, and in this line the tanks are relatively "comfortable". But the Lee, while having some good strengths as the "Unicum guide" points out, is just about the opposite of "American Comfort" of the rest of the line. Ideally you can learn how to be a 2nd line support tank. In this role the Lee does quite well. Or you can just fail your way to tier 5. Realistically it will be some of both...

Do look at the "Unicum Guide" - and try to do some of what it talks about. Most will struggle with doing that - and that is OK. Do play the Lee enough to unlock both the Sherman and the T1 Heavy - both lines are worth unlocking, and most likely you do NOT want to come back to the Lee at a later date. Do take advantage of as many x3 or x5 events as you can. Do take advantage of any xp personal reserves.

And don't worry about stats now. Worry about learning some of the pieces that eventually you will be able to put together to be a better player later. The Guides have many posts on how to do this....



dunniteowl #23 Posted Jan 08 2017 - 23:29

    Captain

  • -Players-
  • 14823 battles
  • 1,600
  • Member since:
    09-01-2014

I have a dubious distinction of being around the 25 or 26 placed Grant (or did before I took a decently long break.)  The M3 Lee/Grant is a medium that is tall, fat, slow and has the casemate gun of a TD.  Oh, and you are right handed so you have to position yourself to have cover on the left side to allow your gun to work without too much exposure.

 

For all that, it is a dynamo at it's tier AS LONG AS YOU PLAY LIKE A TD and keep your head.  The gun has really good pen for it's tier and the frontal armor, as others have said, is pretty good.  It's side armor isn't all that bad, either, but you need to learn to angle a bit for better bounced hits against you.  If you are top tier, don't get cocky, but be at the front as much as you can.  At mid tier, you should be hanging back a bit and sniping like a TD, just closer than being called a Camper.  At bottom tier, your best bet is to position yourself near other better units, but relatively safe from harm and peek and poke to make side shots or the occasional nice rear or sideskirt shot when they are busy with the bigger guys.  Always be sure to make sure you're able to pop back under cover.


 

I am currently playing the Grant.  I like playing them.  Yes, they are challenging, which is the appeal for me.

 

The DW2 taught me not to hate my Churchill.  The DW2 isn't as bad as most think, though.  Bottom tier, you are more likely to be better off used as a doorstop, to be sure, but that doesn't mean you can't at least provide a deterrence effect by positioning yourself in a way that allows you to prevent your team mates ahead of you from being flanked.  At bottom tier, you're a support unit and generally not a very good one.

 

That doesn't make you useless.  Sometimes, the mere presence of another unit in the right spot can act as a wedge to prevent an opposing unit from an easy escape, which might make it easier for your team to take them out.


 

At your number of matches don't be in a hurry.  Take your time and actually learn how to play.  Sure, you can drive a tank, but so can a precocious four year old.  Sure you can shoot and hit things.  See that last but.  The difference in good play and poor play is the idea in one's head that there is absolutely nothing you can do.  A good player will not care that they are bottom tier and do their best to leverage their unit.  This is the way you have to think if you wish to get better, no matter which unit you operate.


 

GL, HF & HSYBF!


Edited by dunniteowl, Jan 08 2017 - 23:31.


Red_Ensign #24 Posted Jan 08 2017 - 23:32

    Major

  • Players
  • 5988 battles
  • 5,407
  • Member since:
    02-14-2013

trap door spider.  hang just behind the lead tanks, behind cover.  whenever an enemy gets occupied with the lead tanks, pop around the corner and pump shells into him, and once he's dead go back to behind the leaders.  rinse, repeat.  only come around the side of cover though - cresting over cover is not good in this tank.  also the gun's on the side so you can hide a good amount of your tank behind a building or wall and still fire at things.

 

[edit] yeah prettymuch what the guy above me said.



NK_33 #25 Posted Jan 08 2017 - 23:39

    Major

  • -Players-
  • 15343 battles
  • 2,927
  • Member since:
    12-24-2014

The real trainer for the Lee is the Marder II, SU-76 or Marder 38T, that's the playstyle of the Lee/Grant.  Also, learn to go around instead of over obstacles, and go around corners with a left turn not a right.

 

This is a more important skill than you realize, hiding the commander's cupola is a major deal on many higher tier tanks.  Also, like the AMX40, Matilda and DW2, this is a tank whose playstyle doesn't match what it is called.  There are a number of these in-game, and you'll have to deal with them (the most extreme are the ELC AMX: TD, FCM 50T: Medium, and AMX CDC: Light, although the KV-122: medium also qualifies).

 

Get enough credits to get Binocular telescopes, and a gun rammer.  Once you've improved your view range and rate of fire, the tank will be more useful and enjoyable.  Also, get a 100% crew, this is one of them that a 50% won't cut it, unless the player is very good.  If you can't spend gold, train with credits and use your lower-tier tanks to train your Lee/Grant crew to 100%.



lightguardian #26 Posted Jan 10 2017 - 02:13

    Corporal

  • -Players-
  • 586 battles
  • 26
  • Member since:
    08-27-2012
I personally like the T1 heavy. I think thats next.

OlTanker #27 Posted Jan 10 2017 - 17:44

    Sergeant

  • -Players-
  • 7533 battles
  • 121
  • [DHO2] DHO2
  • Member since:
    01-17-2016
FWIW I absolutely hated the M3. I eventually played it as a very weak inaccurate TD and then had lots of nasty comments from folks who expected me to play it like some turreted medium. As soon as I was able to finish the research I went to the M4 and never looked back to it. The M3 now only houses some extra crew from other tanks to save barracks space. From the M4 I went to the jumbo and T29.

Boghie #28 Posted Jan 11 2017 - 05:05

    Corporal

  • -Players-
  • 2693 battles
  • 93
  • Member since:
    04-10-2016

So far, so bad...

 

27% Win Rate in the M3 Lee.  That thang is pasting this tomato:ohmy:



Dunolig #29 Posted Jan 11 2017 - 05:33

    Corporal

  • Players
  • 3768 battles
  • 13
  • Member since:
    01-25-2012

I hate to admit it but...I loved both the M3 (67% WR, 83 xTE) and the DW2 (58% WR, 65 xTE).  :amazed:

 

I agree with what's been said, grind out both lines.  I went to T1 and carried on down the HT line before taking a break.  I'm back now and just got the M4 with free experience as opposed to rebuying the M3, crew yadayada...would have been better to do it all at once when I was on a roll with the thing.



Boghie #30 Posted Jan 11 2017 - 05:42

    Corporal

  • -Players-
  • 2693 battles
  • 93
  • Member since:
    04-10-2016

View PostDunolig, on Jan 10 2017 - 20:33, said:

I hate to admit it but...I loved both the M3 (67% WR, 83 xTE) and the DW2 (58% WR, 65 xTE).  :amazed:

 

I agree with what's been said, grind out both lines.  I went to T1 and carried on down the HT line before taking a break.  I'm back now and just got the M4 with free experience as opposed to rebuying the M3, crew yadayada...would have been better to do it all at once when I was on a roll with the thing.

 

Concur...

 

But, something is obviously wrong with someone who 'loves' the M3 and the DW2;).

 

Seek medical help NOW!!!



Boghie #31 Posted Jan 16 2017 - 17:21

    Corporal

  • -Players-
  • 2693 battles
  • 93
  • Member since:
    04-10-2016

So the saga continues.  

 

Listening to you folks, watching videos, and paying attention to the maps regarding hard cover for my left side has resulted in a much better M3 Lee experience.  Not good mind you, just better.  I think MM is just creating teams to carry me :-}.  Power to the Main Man...

 

Anyway (from VBAddict):

Category 25 Games 50 Games
Avg XP 284 395
Avg Dmg 272 250
Avg Frags 0.5 0.6
Win8 885 897
Win% 29% 49%

 

This shows your Tomato a few things.

  1. Damage isn't all its cracked out to be.  Kills, spots, and survival have more importance.  A more patient style of play is critical to supporting your team in an M3 Lee.  I now tend to snip at mid range.  I also tend to pick higher tiered tanks or higher quality players to reach out and touch since I have the time to choose.  So, yeah, I XVM snipe, sorry...  Did so in basketball, do so now in WoT.
  2. Flanking takes more thought and skill than I believed was needed in a turreted vehicle.  That will actually improve my game in better tanks.  I have learned to use this pig's speed to flank in a wider arc.  Patience again has paid off.  My guess is that I will be a better team player in a standard medium now.
  3. I am kinda learning the shooting alleys from finding them on the maps on my own.  Yeah, you can follow the TDs around but they don't like your tall, fat pig blowing their cammo.  And, I have found that I like to be a bit closer to the action.  Still have to get set earlier than you do in a turreted vehicle though.  Ever try to turn an M3 Lee while in sniper mode???
  4. I have learned the value of Free XP :-}.  But, I have also learned the value of suffering through crap tanks.  
  5. Thimk (yeah, a "Cat's Cradle" reference)

 

So, yeah, this thing is a drag.  But thimking things through on each map for each battle has dramatically improved my Win% in it and seems to have made me a worthy teammate.  I don't seem to attract much salt in the chat anymore...



Patonb #32 Posted Jan 16 2017 - 17:44

    Major

  • Players
  • 26178 battles
  • 4,474
  • Member since:
    06-05-2012
Ha, in my St.Emil, t7 TD, I'm 38% and 60 games, so as you see, there will always be turd tanks in your grind!

Fishrokk #33 Posted Jan 16 2017 - 19:20

    Major

  • Players
  • 16662 battles
  • 2,089
  • [K-S-W] K-S-W
  • Member since:
    04-09-2012

Others have already posted Sliphantom's guide for you.

 

I'll leave you with my previous advice on this topic.  If you stick with it (and you should, Sli's video is not wrong), stay in it 'til the grind is done.



Boghie #34 Posted Jan 16 2017 - 19:47

    Corporal

  • -Players-
  • 2693 battles
  • 93
  • Member since:
    04-10-2016

View PostFishrokk, on Jan 16 2017 - 10:20, said:

Others have already posted Sliphantom's guide for you.

 

I'll leave you with my previous advice on this topic.  If you stick with it (and you should, Sli's video is not wrong), stay in it 'til the grind is done.

 

Yup, Sliphantom's guide dramatically improved my game in the M3 Lee.

 

I wish I read your post.  Didn't actually find it.  Maybe I'm Google Challenged :-}.  To be absolutely honest, and be quiet about this, I still do not like this tank but I am playing it at a 69% win rate since posting this thread.  Yowser.  That is not me.  I am a Tomato.  I am getting better, but not this...

 

I am grinding both lines.  Got the T1 Heavy last night after about the 45th game.  Well on my way to the M4 now.

 

All I can say is thanks...



Boghie #35 Posted Jan 16 2017 - 19:52

    Corporal

  • -Players-
  • 2693 battles
  • 93
  • Member since:
    04-10-2016

By the way...

 

Nobody platoons with the 'Turd on Tracks'

 

That, at least, keeps the in-game yolos and scenic drivers from pestering me.  And one cannot forget that you can type "I'm in a crappy M3 Lee and you want me to do exactly what???" when accosted by the "Leaders of the Free World" in chat.  Reminds me of how very good looking people wear fake wedding rings.

 

I guess that makes the Lee my fake wedding ring:P



Boghie #36 Posted Jan 16 2017 - 20:22

    Corporal

  • -Players-
  • 2693 battles
  • 93
  • Member since:
    04-10-2016

Uuuugggghhhhhhhh.

 

In a Lee and 1/4th of my team's players have fewer than 100 total games each.  Twice in a row.  Cannot play a Lee on teams like this.  Kinda difficult to carry in an M3 Lee.  So I guess I get back in later.

 

I really do not understand the mentality of advancing to Tier 4 with 68 total games in the book.  Not to mention a Win8 of 62.  Or a Win% of 38%.  Hate to look at the crews.

 

 

 



dunniteowl #37 Posted Jan 17 2017 - 04:59

    Captain

  • -Players-
  • 14823 battles
  • 1,600
  • Member since:
    09-01-2014

Your last post is the best overall reason to simply dump XVM.  If you don't know all that crap, then you don't know.  That means it's not rolling around in the back of your head, eating away at your false confidence that everything's fine -- which is actually sort of important, because false confidence, while allowing many to make really dumb mistakes fast, can also prevent you from sticking your thumb in your mouth and sucking it in fear the entire match.

 

I'd rather do a dumb mistake than the second alternative.


 

GL, HF & HSYBF



Tomato_Powa_Is_Over_9000 #38 Posted Jan 20 2017 - 22:00

    Corporal

  • -Players-
  • 6013 battles
  • 79
  • [DHO6] DHO6
  • Member since:
    12-31-2015

 

 

M3 Lee USA MT 4 175 41.14% 147 42.85 0.89 0.49 63% 196 34300 3rd Class 372

 

This is when I learned that crews were important... I know your pain and kept using this piece of craptill I got my crews in the high 90's before I moved on.  Best option is play like a TD/support.  Stay back and unload on tanks not watching you, the gun is the only thing good about this tank.

 

The Shermans are great and can lead to the T29 (save up exp for the gun or you want to slit wrists).


Edited by Tomato_Powa_Is_Over_9000, Jan 20 2017 - 22:01.


Boghie #39 Posted Jan 24 2017 - 05:15

    Corporal

  • -Players-
  • 2693 battles
  • 93
  • Member since:
    04-10-2016

Anyway, 

 

It was looking good a week ago.  I was actually running a 57% Win Rate for 25 games resulting in a 50 game Win Rate of 49% in the 'Turd on Tracks'.  But, and this is a mighty big but, this thing can't carry.  Or, perhaps more accurately, I ain't good enough to carry in something called the 'Turd on Tracks'.  So, while I was dreaming of completing the grind in 25 games the end result is that it took a total of 50 grueling 'Significant Emotional Events'.  Most of which occurred this past weekend.  

 

I have watched more yolos and lemming trains in the past week than I have seen since I started in April 2016.  My last game was a perfect example.  Two scouts bang into a heavy and yolo the middle field in Fjords.  A lemming train forms in the valley lane to the city.  But I guess the opposition were Window Lickers too.  Two gave me sweet side shots as they obliviously waddled from west to east to deal with the lemming train.  I died with an 8 to 5 lead, but then things went to hell.  The lemming train broke through and three started capping - but the other team still had seven tanks.  Guess what, they came back and slaughtered the cappers.  I had been whispering nicely to them in chat that it was a bit early to cap - but they had it under control till they died.  At least they killed all but one of the quickly returning tanks leaving just three.  Thank the Lord for two good Tomatoes (the three cappers were Yellow and Green players) who set up a cap with overwatch.  Those tomatoes wiped out two coming from the west, set up in cap, and the TD started hunting the Wespe that bailed out during the encounter with the 'experienced' (and, they were.  They had over 10,000 games each) players.  Close thing but a win.  Anyway here is the final chart of my experience in the Lee:

 
Category 25 Games 50 Games 100 Games
Avg XP 284 395 297
Avg Dmg 272 250 227
Avg Frags 0.5 0.6 0.5
Win8 885 897 740
Win% 29% 49% 45%

 

Now that I have had enough 'Significant Emotional Events' for a lifetime I am seeking advice in my next tank.  My issue is that the Medium Crew in the Lee doesn't have any skills completed.  They are basically all around 70% - 80% complete on their first skills/perks.  Should I gut more games in the Lee to bump the skills/perks in an 'Elited' vehicle or should I move that crew to the T1 or M4.  If a move is wise, the T1 has the same crew slots but the M4 is a medium.  So, which???

 

And, just to make things even worse I am in the same situation with the Doosh Wagon.  Actually, the exact same situation.  A trained heavy crew in an 'Elited' tank, but with the first skills/perks trained to only about 70%.  This tanks leads to the VK30.01H.

 

I also only have 1500 free experience.

 

I know this is lots of info, but your advice has been helpful in getting through this.  I really don't want to spend more time on the couch than needed so I want my next experience to be pretty good.  Dealing with the Lee and the Doosh has been a challenge.  My goal is to get to a 50% WR.  I need something that can carry all the experienced players doing rookie mistakes...

 


Edited by Boghie, Jan 24 2017 - 05:16.


Patonb #40 Posted Jan 24 2017 - 15:27

    Major

  • Players
  • 26178 battles
  • 4,474
  • Member since:
    06-05-2012

I really have to tell you, it's not your teams, it's your attitude towards teams. You are one of the tomatoes and until you realize it you'll continue to be one. Doing 2 shots of damage per game is tomato level.

Good players carry in all tanks because they are good.

The Lee only sucks because you have no turret or map knowledge to play it.


 

Tier 4 is the worst tier so move out of it when you can. My advice is to get the T1 and play the Lee on doubles and every so often till the M4 is unlocked, then move the Lee crew to it.


 






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users