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M3 Lee... Advice, and which tank next


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BunnyBoi #41 Posted Jan 25 2017 - 03:47

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I looked at your stats... :sceptic:  Ok, so honestly, you kinda suck at medium tanks.    Sorry.    you are a 46% win rate player, and it's worse for medium tanks (44%).  :unsure:  So for you to have a 45% win rate in the Lee is actually very good.  you beat your own skill level with the Lee.:medal:

 

 

You're at 50% with the dooshwagon, which is the high side of good, but considering you're a 46% over-all player, that's kind of epic. It also means you'll probably be great at Heavy tanks, so go for the T1 heavy.:justwait:

 

The M3 Lee is a troll tank. it's very hard to play, but massively over powered with one of the highest DPM guns in the whole game, with HE shells.  Finishing the grind the honest way is also bragging rights. :trollface:


Edited by BunnyBoi, Jan 25 2017 - 03:59.


Boghie #42 Posted Jan 25 2017 - 03:55

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View PostPatonb, on Jan 24 2017 - 06:27, said:

I really have to tell you, it's not your teams, it's your attitude towards teams. You are one of the tomatoes and until you realize it you'll continue to be one. Doing 2 shots of damage per game is tomato level.

Good players carry in all tanks because they are good.

The Lee only sucks because you have no turret or map knowledge to play it.


 

Tier 4 is the worst tier so move out of it when you can. My advice is to get the T1 and play the Lee on doubles and every so often till the M4 is unlocked, then move the Lee crew to it.


 

 

Ok,

 

I think you are recommending:

 

  • Buying the T1 with a new crew that I will train with credits or gold.  That is, do not use the M3 Lee medium crew for the T1.
  • Since I have already performed the full grind, use the M3 Lee crew in the M4
  • And, I can adjust your advice and X2 the DW2 till that crew sings.

 

It seems a waste of the extra crew member that both the Lee and the T1 require, but I see the point of not messing up a partially trained medium crew that I will need by retraining them to a heavy tank.  I have the credits to do this and am not against using some gold (especially to train crews).  That much I think I have prepared for.  Things are getting expensive and stupid mistakes are costly now.

 

On the comments about my attitude - eh.  I know I am a tomato, but I was getting better till I hit the M3 Lee and the DW2.  I was working my PzIVD from 40% Win Rate toward a personal goal of 50% but all that did was lock up XP - but it is a goal so I will probably keep moving on that.  I can actually play a role in a carry in either my PzIVD or PzIIIE.  I am not useless.  I will probably keep playing my PzIVD in X2+ events to build my second skills and than look at the PzIVH.  I have found the Lee and the DW2 very difficult to play.


Edited by Boghie, Jan 25 2017 - 03:58.


Boghie #43 Posted Jan 25 2017 - 04:24

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View PostBunnyBoi, on Jan 24 2017 - 18:47, said:

I looked at your stats... :sceptic:  Ok, so honestly, you kinda suck at medium tanks.    Sorry.    you are a 46% win rate player, and it's worse for medium tanks (44%).  :unsure:  So for you to have a 45% win rate in the Lee is actually very good.  you beat your own skill level with the Lee.:medal:

 

 

You're at 50% with the dooshwagon, which is the high side of good, but considering you're a 46% over-all player, that's kind of epic. It also means you'll probably be great at Heavy tanks, so go for the T1 heavy.:justwait:

 

The M3 Lee is a troll tank. it's very hard to play, but massively over powered with one of the highest DPM guns in the whole game, with HE shells.  Finishing the grind the honest way is also bragging rights. :trollface:

 

I am leaning toward taking PatonB's and your advice and play the T1.

 

My concern is that I have not completed my first level of crew skills/perks in the M3 Lee.  And, if I fully take PatonB's advice and start with a new crew (I'll spend gold to fully train it for the tank) in the T1 than I will have no skills and perks on any crew members.  That was not a joy in either the PzIII/IV or the PzIVD, but I guess either the M4 or the T1 will have that handicap anyway...



LordPorky #44 Posted Jan 25 2017 - 05:11

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Nice thread, Boghie; a good read.

Patonb #45 Posted Jan 25 2017 - 17:52

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Yes, using the Lee's crew in the T1 will cost you more % loss as you're going Med to Hvy. But I guess I never did ask what your main goal was, Grind Hvys or Meds.

Both M4 and T1 share the 76mm gun so xp for crew grind is lessened for 1 line.


 

If you are going to do both at once I think start a new T1 crew, so you save a bit of xp 10% actually,

Med to Med is 90% where as a Med to Hvy is 80%

Yes you keep your skill/perks but a new crew starts at 75% so might as well just do that for the T1.


 

If you don't plan on both lines at once then use the crew.


A good tip is wait till a 2x crew weekend and you'll speed to 100% in a few battles.



dunniteowl #46 Posted Jan 26 2017 - 04:13

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I'd like to 'amplify' a bit on Patonb's post with regard to that crews and retraining...

 

At this tier migration, I decided I'd bite the bullet and grind a new crew on my first Hvy (T1, DW2, Churchill) tank in each line I was going through.  I also decided that I just had to wait until I had at least 2 full skills on my crew before going to the next unit in line.  I'm still doing it and I think I have learned a lot more by doing so (T4-6) and have resisted the urge to simply buy the next unit as soon as I could.  (Being a pubbie, I have very few Garage Slots and not so many Barracks slots, either, so I have to move a crew, sell the unit, buy a unit, move the crew in, train them up with silver [can't afford to use Gold] and take a hit on that 2nd Crew skill, but have a fully trained crew with a  single full skill to start the next grind. I hate having to do that.)


 

The way I train my crew, for me, works to make sure I know my tanks at my tier and above me pretty well, really should know my unit very well and have enough XP and Crew Training/Skills to advance without feeling like I'm completely starting over with a 75% crew.


 

GL, HF & HSYBF



Boghie #47 Posted Jan 29 2017 - 21:41

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To All, many thanks.  

 

I have taken the advice and am thoroughly enjoying the 'grind' of both the 'T1 Heavy' and the 'M4 Sherman'.  Luck has also come my way in that crew retraining is half price this weekend.  I really enjoy the Sherman's mobility and I like the T1's survivability.  Even at stock both were playable.

 

I even retrained my Douchewagon's crew to the VK30.01H.  I guess I spent my Free XP some time ago before I knew what it really was.  Already had the Waffe gun.  Oh my god, what a joy.  Still grinding other modules, but this thing is a joy.

 

Later



Fishrokk #48 Posted Feb 03 2017 - 01:50

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Happy my earlier post was of some value to you.

 

I agree with Patonb.  New crew in the T1, keep grinding your x2 on the Lee until you have a skill.  If you retrain for silver, and can stand to keep it around long enough, take it to 51% on the second skill.  You can retrain the crew with gold, and still come out with a 100% skill even after the 10% XP loss.  (Might be 41% on the second skill, I don't just remember, but you can check on the crew member by starting the retrain process to be sure.  If it doesn't project a first skill at 100%, don't complete the retraining.)

 

Yes, this means you will have to start a new T1 crew.  This would almost also be a good time to get a premium US heavy tank to train with - but the only one currently available in the shop is the T34.  And I hate to say it, but you're not ready for that yet...

 

The next thing you need to know is that the crew seats in the US heavy line is going to mess with you for the next three tiers.  Look at them all.  Figure out what you're going to need extras of (loaders, drivers).  Recruit them now.  Swap them in and out as you grind the tank.  Then when you need them, they won't be so far behind.



Omega_Weapon #49 Posted Feb 03 2017 - 07:57

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View PostFishrokk, on Feb 02 2017 - 19:50, said:

The next thing you need to know is that the crew seats in the US heavy line is going to mess with you for the next three tiers.  Look at them all.  Figure out what you're going to need extras of (loaders, drivers).  Recruit them now.  Swap them in and out as you grind the tank.  Then when you need them, they won't be so far behind.

 

​Loaders or gunners. As far as I know, none of the tanks in game have more than one driver or one commander (at least not yet).

Boghie #50 Posted Mar 19 2017 - 00:01

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Again, thanks...

I am really enjoying the M4 Sherman.  I think my enjoyment perked way up when my crew finally reached a decent point in their skill/perk training (I gold spammed the basic training:ohmy:)

 

I am learning to enjoy the T1 as well.  Maybe because my first skills are now nearing 50%.  Obviously, I liked running around with the Sherman a bit better so that is why those chaps are midway through their second skill.  But, now I am working up the T1 crew and decided to gut it out.  Susurprisingly, it has been a fun run once I got the engines unlocked.  The M4 taught me things I can use in the T1 - and, hull down that thang is a beast.

 

But, here is something weird:

 

  • I prefer to use the 76mm M1A1 in both - and they have different reload times.  Why does the M4 take a full second longer than the T1?  
  • Are there other tank lines that have the same issues with their guns and/or armor?

 

Once I figured that out I started pulling my weight in the T1.  Not great, but not a full blown tomato either.  I can nail a KV1 with two penetrations before he can sight me in.  But, gotta learn to not really take that second because I can't hide quick enough :-}.



dunniteowl #51 Posted Mar 19 2017 - 00:43

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View PostBoghie, on Jan 08 2017 - 20:48, said:

Well,

 

I ran up the German line to the DW2.  I hate that tank with a passion.  But, at least the 'grind' to the next tank wasn't a complete misery.  You don't seem to hurt your team too much if you show up with the Doosh (sic) Wagon.  Can't do anything unless you are top tier.  Can't flex anywhere.  Can't take any punishment except from pew pew guns.  Can't pen anything in your class or sometimes even your tier - and when you do:  who cares...  But, I have been on 50%+ winning teams so at least the rest of you can carry my Doosh Bag...

 

But, the M3 Lee.  Absolutely unbelievable.  I guess it is my first TD, but it is a tall TD with no cammo.  I get nailed by tanks I cannot even see.  The gun is extremely inaccurate.  Every time I move from one target to the next my tank moves (cammo blown???).  And, I have been on two winning teams in 11 games - with me doing basically nothing but maybe a kill and my death.  I would take the Doosh Wagon every time.  I didn't really know what 'Free Experience' was till I found out I had very little.  The Doosh wagon to the VK wasn't horrid, this thing makes me dread the 14K experience grind.

 

Anyway, if I have to drive my Win% into the 30%s than maybe some of you can help in two ways:

  • Is there a way to maximize experience or pull it off other tanks (I have dead experience on them)
  • Which line should I advance on.  My goal is Heavy, but my heart is Medium.  I like the PzIVD, PzIIIE, and even the PzIII/IV.  I hate the Doosh Wagon.

 

And, just to think, I just brought my wonderful Win% to over 46% and was looking at progressing from a Tomato to an Orange.  Small steps, very small steps - but at least progress.  Now the Doosh and the Turd on Tracks.

I had, at one short time, the dubious distinction of being the 23rd best player of the M3 Grant on the NA server (which is EXACTLY like the Lee, because the Brits called it a Grant) and I can tell you that this machine is not for everyone.


 

First up, it's a Medium tank with none of the speed, traverse or hell, even turret of a classic medium tank.  So yay, that's fun.  Then you realize that it's basically a tall, fat, small traverse, right handed TD classed incorrectly as a Medium and you can start to make some progress.  That said, I have bounced some tier 5 rounds off this baby properly angled and sitting with a rock or building on your left, hiding all but your gun hand and some tread.  A little tiny sidescrape (your gun traverse, honestly, isn't as bad as, say, the JgPzIV, the Marder or the T1 Russian) and you can just about bounce anything that isn't tracking you or pinging your cupola, which, truth be told, is nearly impossible to hide -- note I said NEARLY impossible.


 

You definitely have to play this tank like a tall, wide TD that can zip along under the right conditions, though mostly must find positions with long lines of fire or work the city streets tight and tiny.  Honestly, I hated the Lee, but when I got hold of the Grant a couple 1000 matches of learning later, I rocked the crap out of it.


 

This unit is situational and not all places are good for it.  Did I mention you are right handed, no matter how you like that?  Use it to your advantage when you can, which will be maybe 65 to 70% of the time if you plan ahead.  Also, if you are top tier, don't take that to mean get out there and expose yourself and fight like you're invincible.  You are still very vincible even when top tier if you are not careful.  The Lee/Grant is big and easy to hit from many directions at once, so make sure you are in places that you either know you cannot be flanked or at least can't be flanked right now.


 

Always have an exit plan and never be afraid to capitalize on the psychology of such a large machine when you are top tier and the game is late, you're winning and maybe pinned without too much support.  At the right time, with a kill or three under your belt in a match, you might be able to simply wade forward in a jump push around a corner and scare a couple of LTs into turning and running or backing up so quick that they can't shoot straight.  Pick the weakest and easiest one to hit and focus on it for damage until it's dead.  Just keep an eye on that mini-map and make sure you're not getting surrounded from a folded flank on the other side.


 

At the same time, remember, you're going to get rekt over and over again when bottom tier if you don't take your ability to do something seriously by giving up and thinking you can't.  The Lee/Grant, the Valentine AT, Matilda, DW2 and the Churchill will teach you more about how to deal with a crap tank than any other units I can think of beyond the MS-1 Russian tier 1, which, bar none, other than an SU18 T2 arty is the weakest unit on the field, period in terms of HP and is weaker in terms of damage capacity than the aforementioned arty.


 

When you are in a piss poor machine, or have a less-than-stellar crew in terms of training and/or skills, you have to rely on YOU.  You cannot prevail if you believe you cannot prevail.  Sometimes a little frustrated anger can carry you through a moment, but that's only going to be a salve on occasion.  Calm, cool, patient and determined thinking will pull your ability up higher than any other tip I can provide in general that applies to playing and not just the Lee.


 

If you can afford them and they are available, put on Improved Ventilation, Gun Rammer and Gun Laying Drive (Yes, yes, yes, I know they're Eee-SpEEn-sive.  I'm a cheap FTP pubbie, I know how much that shizzle costs in silver, believe me, this is worth doing if you want to play better and it's just a game, not real money, so go for it, right?)  You can demount it if you have gold and if you're like me, you leave it on when you sell it and get half price back for it.  It's better than destroying it for nothing if you feel you have to change modules and cannot afford to demount it, like I have had to do.  I digress...


 

Remember: Big, TALL, Right Handed TD with all the concealment value of a Medium that has a Hvy Tank Profile.  What could go wrong?


 

GL, HF & HSYBF






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