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Apache1990 #27721 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 08:53

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View PostAvalon304, on Apr 15 2018 - 00:35, said:

Skill accelerated time spent?

 

And WOT ranked isnt skill based at all its rank based. Which is the best you can probably get in games like this. Because most skill based systems (using a developer derived rating) are generally awful.

 

You go up in MM rating tiers by playing enough battles (effectively).  You gain points toward it by winning, lose points by losing without being effective, neutral if you do ok, and gain on a loss if you did really well.

(So it's sort of like WoT ranked, where playing well moves you up faster, but everyone can eventually hit max rank given enough time.)



Avalon304 #27722 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 09:59

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View PostApache1990, on Apr 15 2018 - 00:53, said:

 

You go up in MM rating tiers by playing enough battles (effectively).  You gain points toward it by winning, lose points by losing without being effective, neutral if you do ok, and gain on a loss if you did really well.

(So it's sort of like WoT ranked, where playing well moves you up faster, but everyone can eventually hit max rank given enough time.)

 

I mean... thats interesting but more like WoT's ranked MM than it is anything having to do with skill.

Apache1990 #27723 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 10:33

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View PostAvalon304, on Apr 15 2018 - 03:59, said:

I mean... thats interesting but more like WoT's ranked MM than it is anything having to do with skill.

 

It was intended to be skill related, but they forgot to put in something that would make consistently bad players lose more points than they gain over long time windows.

(The devs skill think it's skill MM.)



Avalon304 #27724 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 11:33

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View PostApache1990, on Apr 15 2018 - 02:33, said:

 

It was intended to be skill related, but they forgot to put in something that would make consistently bad players lose more points than they gain over long time windows.

(The devs skill think it's skill MM.)

 

Honestly that sort of MM is never fun though... for either side of the equation. And thats really the major problem with skill based MM. Either it results in good players having to carry bads or it results in the compression of winrates back toward 50%. Like its never good... even if it isnt a complete disaster as far as function.

Zergling #27725 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 12:10

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Just been playing MWO, and the teammates are godawful bad there.

 

Eg, in one battle I was giving instructions to teammates ahead of time to engage the enemy when they pushed, to not run away or push elsewhere, because that would lead to a 'nascar' or 'two snakes chasing each other's tail' effect that would likely lead to my team losing due to being the less aggressive team.

I see the enemy team pushing to the left, so I call out the team to move left to engage them. Most of the team listened, but 4 players decided to push to the right. They killed a single enemy mech, but it cost the rest of the team several deaths and quickly resulted in a defeat for the team.

 

Naturally, not one of the 4 players that pushed right admitted any fault.

 

EDIT: and I'm Tier 1, the highest. I shouldn't be seeing these sorts of stupid players.

 


Edited by Zergling, Apr 15 2018 - 12:23.


SpectreHD #27726 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 13:30

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View PostAvalon304, on Apr 15 2018 - 18:33, said:

Honestly that sort of MM is never fun though... for either side of the equation. And thats really the major problem with skill based MM. Either it results in good players having to carry bads or it results in the compression of winrates back toward 50%. Like its never good... even if it isnt a complete disaster as far as function.

 

Depending if it is the same MM we are talking about. I want the teams to be balanced. Not for the MM to mirror the teams.

 

So there will still be enough of a random factor that the stupid argument of everyone's WR becoming 50% is just a load of bull to me. Especially considering that each map would be different, the players in the match would be different, the vehicles would be different, etc etc. And what is wrong exactly with WRs being compressed? It sure won't be compressed to 50%. But it is a stupid metric to lay importance on. Why aren't people more concerned about other stats like DPG, KDR, Damage dealt vs damage received, spotting or tracking assist. This is how a good player should be judge with his positive WR which they would get.

 

I find it really stupid that solo players, the majority of the WoT playerbase, aren't allowed to have this one thing to make their lives easier. I find it stupid that it seen as "bad" that two teams be as fair as reasonably possible even if they are random matches. Random matches which is WoT's actual gameplay, and not the tripe they play as eSports since it is not indicative of what the majority of the players play. WoT's gameplay should be judged with random battles and with solo players.

 

View PostZergling, on Apr 15 2018 - 19:10, said:

Just been playing MWO, and the teammates are godawful bad there.

 

Eg, in one battle I was giving instructions to teammates ahead of time to engage the enemy when they pushed, to not run away or push elsewhere, because that would lead to a 'nascar' or 'two snakes chasing each other's tail' effect that would likely lead to my team losing due to being the less aggressive team.

I see the enemy team pushing to the left, so I call out the team to move left to engage them. Most of the team listened, but 4 players decided to push to the right. They killed a single enemy mech, but it cost the rest of the team several deaths and quickly resulted in a defeat for the team.

 

Naturally, not one of the 4 players that pushed right admitted any fault.

 

EDIT: and I'm Tier 1, the highest. I shouldn't be seeing these sorts of stupid players.

 

 

Well, just like how WoT's MM would sometimes forgo MM criteria if it takes too long to find players for a match, the same goes for MWO where the MM would take Tier 2, and 3 players. But recently they did tightened it but I won't be surprised it would still take Tier 3s during off peak hours.

 

But quite frankly, as bad as MWO players are, they are nowhere close to what WoT has for the simple fact that teamwork is more prevalent even if not very common compared to the nonexistent teamwork in WoT.



Zergling #27727 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 14:09

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So I found a translation of the Russian Ministry of Defense briefing on the Syrian strike, and it is HILARIOUS:

Block Quote

Russian air defense systems in Tartus and Khmeimim were providing detection and control (tracking) of all launches, both from sea and air.

 
Participation of French aircraft was not detected.
 
US used the following aircraft: F-15; F-16. UK used Tornado's. The strikes came from the Mediterranean Sea area.
 
US Navy destroyers launched strikes from the Red Sea.
 
US B-1B bombers launched their strikes while over Al Tanf area.
 
As of now, no reported casualties.
 
All in all, 103 cruise missiles were launched, among them Tomahawks.
 
B-1B bombers used GBU-38 guided bombs.
 
F-15 & 16 aircraft used air-to-surface missiles.
 
UK's Tornado's launched 8 SCALP cruise missiles.
 
SAA air defenses successfully repelled the attacks.
 
71 cruise missiles were intercepted.
 
S-125; S-200, OSA, Kvadrat (Square), Buk, Pantsir were used by SAA to repel the attack.
 
Russia now considers supplying S-300 to Syria and other countries.
 
Strikes were also launched on SAA airbases.
 
Duvali airbase (sorry for spelling) - 4 missiles - all shot down. No type of missiles given.
 
Dumeir airbase (sorry, again) - 12 missiles - all shot down. No type of missiles given.
 
Blay airbase (spelling) - 18 missiles - all shot down. No type of missiles given.
 
Shairat airbase - 12 missiles - all shot down. No type of missiles given.
 
All above airbases sustained no damage.
 
Unused Mezzeh airbase - 9 missiles - 5 shot down.
 
Homs airbase - 16 missiles - 13 shot down. No serious damage.
 
Barzah and Djaramani - 30 missiles - 7 shot down. Targets partially destroyed. Facilities were not being used.
 
RuMoD air defense forces were put on full combat alert. RuMoD aircraft patrolling Syrian airspace.
 
Not a single missile entered the Russian air defense systems' range. Those systems were not used in repelling the strike.
 
The strike is a response to SAA's recent successes.
 
The strike was launched on the same day the OPCW mission was supposed to start working in Douma.
 
Syria has no facilities that are capable of producing chemical weapons which was registered competent authorities.
 
The strike clearly shows US is not interested in finding the truth and is aiming to disrupt Syria and the entire region.
 
The situation in Damascus is calm.

 

Like, the USA/UK/France are only claiming to have hit 3 target locations; Barzah RnD Center, Him Shimshar Chemical Weapons Storage Site and Him Shimsar Chemical Weapons Bunker.

Russia is claiming they struck at a bunch of airbases too, but conveniently they suffered no serious damage because all the missiles launched at them were shot down... needless to say, the Russian claims of 71 out of 103 missiles shot down are highly dubious.

 

Next, they say the B-1B bombers used GBU-38 JDAMs, which only have a range of 10-20 km. How the hell could the B-1Bs have gotten close enough to drop those bombs, when Syrian air defense was capable of shooting down 71 cruise missiles? The B-1B isn't that stealthy; it'd be much easier to shoot those down than it is to shoot down 71 cruise missiles.

And the B-1B weapon bays were photographed before the mission with a load of JASSM cruise missiles, so luls for RuMoD getting easy stuff wrong.

 

Also, the USA says this about Syrian air defenses during the strike:

Block Quote

the Syrians attempted to shoot down incoming missiles with 40 surface-to-air missiles using a "ballistic trajectory" and "without guidance."

 

All the videos I've seen of 'Syrian air defenses shooting down cruise missiles!' show the SAMs to be flying ballistically with no course adjustments, so no sign of any guidance, matching the Pentagon claim.

 

 

Another lul part of the RuMoD briefing is this:

Block Quote

Barzah and Djaramani - 30 missiles - 7 shot down. Targets partially destroyed.

 

The available photographs of Barzah post strike show a bit more than 'partial destruction':

Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler

 

 

Final absurdity from the RuMoD:

Block Quote

Not a single missile entered the Russian air defense systems' range.

 

This is total bull, because Russia has S-300 and S-400 systems in Syria, which can protect a huge amount of territory.

 

Like, here's range circles for S-400 at Latakia:

Spoiler

 

Even the 155 mile/250 km range 48N6 missile has sufficient range to cover Barzah RnD in Damascus, nevermind the Him Shimshar targets significantly further north near Homs (Homs is only about 110-120 km from Latakia).

So the cruise missiles were well within range of Russian air defenses; they just choose to not engage them.

 

 

Speaking of the S-400, I've long suspected the 250 mile/400 km range 40N6 missile wasn't actually in service, because there was no photographs of the missiles or even their launch canisters, nor any real information on missile dimensions.

 

While looking up info on the Syria strikes again today, I came across this article about the S-500 system, which talks a bit about the 40N6.

Block Quote

It goes on to state that the 40N6 is a two-stage solid fuel missile that is capable of reaching speeds of nine times the speed of sound. The report also claims the thirty-foot long missile has a "blast-fragmentation warhead with a range of 310 miles and 95-percent accuracy."

 

Two-stage missile was already talking about in articles speculation in the 40N6, but 30-feet long is interesting, because the 48N6 is only 24.5 feet long; 30 feet is the same length as the 9M82 anti-ballistic missile used by the S-300V system, which confirms my suspicion the 40N6 is significantly larger, heavier and more expensive than the 48N6.

 

And googling for more information on 40N6 came up with this recent article; Russia is saying the 40N6 will enter service 'soon', so my suspicions it wasn't even in service yet were also correct.

 


Edited by Zergling, Apr 15 2018 - 14:09.


KilljoyCutter #27728 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 14:27

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So in other words, total bullcrap from the Kremlin. 

 

 



Zergling #27729 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 14:49

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View PostKilljoyCutter, on Apr 15 2018 - 23:27, said:

So in other words, total bullcrap from the Kremlin. 

 

Exactly



cipher12 #27730 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 15:26

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Intercepted Air to Surface missiles and guided bombs?  (X)doubt

Dragon_Witch #27731 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 15:31

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View Postcipher12, on Apr 15 2018 - 09:26, said:

Intercepted Air to Surface missiles and guided bombs?  (X)doubt

 

Russian science is the best in the world!

FrozenKemp #27732 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 16:36

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Blurgh.  I don't think anything good is going to come out of the Syrian situation.

 

Thought I would be able to get rid of an old computer and other parts today but the event was cancelled because of the freezing rain/ice pellets/possible ice storm conditions.  To be honest it doesn't look as bad as I fared out there... trees aren't all coated in ice.  And tomorrow it should all melt.

 

So it's another day trapped indoors!  I did have two great games in WoT so far (ignoring all the bad ones)... a 1.3k base xp game in the tier 9 Patton showing how wonderful and comfortable it is, and also a very good game in the Emil I which was nice because I have been having a LOT of losses in it lately, sometimes being quite bad in it, and the game this morning unlocked the Emil II.

 

 

As far as the MM goes... ugh, I don't know.  Maybe all of random battles should be divided into long seasons with tiers.  Say there were just 3 tiers.  Do well enough in tier I and you advance to tier II at the end of the week.  Do well enough in tier II and you can advance to III.  Do terribly in your tier and drop down.  Your win rate might get compressed by being put in with other good players but at least you would have the tag indicating you're a tier III player. 

 

Then again from what you guys are posting, it sounds like this is what MWO is doing but it doesn't help. 

 

Watching people play WoT, it's hard not to make depressing conclusions about humanity's intelligence. 



KilljoyCutter #27733 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 17:09

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About ready to walk away from WOWS for the weekend.

 

Sick of having a good start to a battle then looking up to realize that I'm taking all the fire from the bots because 7 idiots have tucked tail and run off to hump the back of the closest rock they could find. 

 

If you want to play like it's Randoms, go play fckng Randoms, you useless sacks of crap.  

 



Dragon_Witch #27734 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 17:27

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Good times.  Just had to run my cousin to the gas station for smokes.  Between shoveling out the car, getting stuck, getting free, getting stuck again, getting to the stupid gas station, getting back, getting stuck, getting free, and finally pushing the stupid car up stupid hill to our driveway, it took an hour.  To go 5 lousy miles.  And we have to do it again in an hour to take his sorry, won't-get-a-driver's-license-because-he's-scared butt back to work so he can do his shift.

 



favrepeoria #27735 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 17:43

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View PostKilljoyCutter, on Apr 15 2018 - 10:09, said:

About ready to walk away from WOWS for the weekend.

 

Sick of having a good start to a battle then looking up to realize that I'm taking all the fire from the bots because 7 idiots have tucked tail and run off to hump the back of the closest rock they could find. 

 

If you want to play like it's Randoms, go play fckng Randoms, you useless sacks of crap.  

 

WoT hasn’t been much better for me this morning. No one wants to use teamwork because they are too worried about their XP to use teamwork. When if they would just use teamwork we could win and get more XP. Instead they are content on camping with lights and meds. 



Daigensui #27736 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 17:49

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Top 10 is actually a pretty bad thing, since it incentivizes self-interest over cooperation.

MajorOffensive #27737 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 17:56

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View PostDaigensui, on Apr 15 2018 - 11:49, said:

Top 10 is actually a pretty bad thing, since it incentivizes self-interest over cooperation.

 

Almost everything in the game incentivizes self-interest.  The exp and credit multipliers for winning don't, but no one really thinks about that, and they don't matter if you win but don't do enough for the mission requirement anyway.  This is basically what Ranked looks like, but at every tier now.

DerViktim #27738 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 18:14

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View PostEmpressNero, on Apr 15 2018 - 11:27, said:

Good times.  Just had to run my cousin to the gas station for smokes.  Between shoveling out the car, getting stuck, getting free, getting stuck again, getting to the stupid gas station, getting back, getting stuck, getting free, and finally pushing the stupid car up stupid hill to our driveway, it took an hour.  To go 5 lousy miles.  And we have to do it again in an hour to take his sorry, won't-get-a-driver's-license-because-he's-scared butt back to work so he can do his shift.

 

 

"Sorry bud. I'm not going back out in that crap. You better start walking." would be my response.

 



Starne #27739 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 18:19

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View PostDerViktim, on Apr 15 2018 - 12:14, said:

 

"Sorry bud. I'm not going back out in that crap. You better start walking." would be my response.

 

 

No more chauffeuring to the store to buy cigarettes would probably go a long way to encourage Mr. Cousin to get his driver's license.

ChairmanMilo #27740 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 18:19

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Time to trigger Far Cry 5 players:

 

 

#toosoon






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