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Haunt8dTank #41481 Posted Oct 12 2019 - 14:22

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View PostKilljoyCutter, on Oct 12 2019 - 13:25, said:

 

 

 


 The ATF and federal prosecutors don't actually know what the law says when it comes to firearms?  I'm so shocked.

 

Hits two of my buttons... firearms, and the abdication of power from elected legislators, to regulators given free reign to interpret the law as they wish.


 


    Its more of a technology thing. If you want to regulate and track a gun what do you track? If you replace the barrel of a gun did you make another gun? (nope) Do you have a unique serial number for every part of the gun (nope stupid).

So when the law was written they chose the receiver as the part that was the gun (legally) So a Thompson center pistol with 30 different barrels that can swap on to it was a single gun with one receiver. The AR 15 is a weapon that splits the receiver into an upper and a lower with neither quite fitting the original receiver definition from the 50s.

    The ATF could have made the uppers and the lowers count as one receiver and thus each ar15 would be 2 guns and legally a huge minefield or the could just pick one and be consistent with it. That is the path they chose.

 

    Fast forward to a mass shooting in California where the rifle used had no serial numbers and no purchase history. They found an invoice to a place where "build parties" where had and for around $1000 you could  "make " an ar15 with no background check or other niceties.  

 

   Factually and commonsense   tells you the ATF was enforcing the laws exactly as congress intended. It just so happens that the law was outdated from the moment Stoner made his AR16.



PrimarchRogalDorn #41482 Posted Oct 12 2019 - 15:06

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If any Threaddites are at the Battle for the Airfield event today at the Collings Foundation, look for a guy wearing Belgian jigsaw camo

KilljoyCutter #41483 Posted Oct 12 2019 - 18:38

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View PostHaunt8dTank, on Oct 12 2019 - 08:22, said:


    Its more of a technology thing. If you want to regulate and track a gun what do you track? If you replace the barrel of a gun did you make another gun? (nope) Do you have a unique serial number for every part of the gun (nope stupid).

So when the law was written they chose the receiver as the part that was the gun (legally) So a Thompson center pistol with 30 different barrels that can swap on to it was a single gun with one receiver. The AR 15 is a weapon that splits the receiver into an upper and a lower with neither quite fitting the original receiver definition from the 50s.

    The ATF could have made the uppers and the lowers count as one receiver and thus each ar15 would be 2 guns and legally a huge minefield or the could just pick one and be consistent with it. That is the path they chose.

 

    Fast forward to a mass shooting in California where the rifle used had no serial numbers and no purchase history. They found an invoice to a place where "build parties" where had and for around $1000 you could  "make " an ar15 with no background check or other niceties. 

 

   Factually and commonsense   tells you the ATF was enforcing the laws exactly as congress intended. It just so happens that the law was outdated from the moment Stoner made his AR16.

 

You may have a point.


 

I'm just sick of laws being passed that amount to "we hereby give an agency the authority to accomplish this vaguely worded task"... and then either the agency mucks it up, or each administration pushes changes to what it means.  Look at all the things that the current "administration" has done without passing a single law, such as gutting the consumer financial protection bureau.


 



HOTA_CHATON #41484 Posted Oct 12 2019 - 19:29

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View PostThe_Chieftain, on Oct 11 2019 - 21:43, said:

In fascinating legal news, apparently some chap who the ATF was prosecuting for illegally selling AR15s had the case dropped when his lawyer told the judge that AR15s are not subject to federal regulation by the ATF.

 

Once everybody stopped laughing, and actually looked up the legislation, instead of just presuming that everybody had it right all the time, they realised he was right.

 

The problem is that legally, the “receiver” of the rifle is the gun. The receiver is defined in the US Code. Your challenge is as follows. Looking at the definition, what component of an AR15, or AUG, for example, meets the definition?

 

Someone in Congress needs to get that fixed, or every illegal AR15 defendant is going to pull the same defense.


Here's the CNN article on that very subject.  Interesting reading: https://www.cnn.com/...invs/index.html



KilljoyCutter #41485 Posted Oct 13 2019 - 15:48

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More webcomics commenting on China, Blizzard, Etc.


 

http://www.sandraandwoo.com/2019/10/11/1122-masters-and-slaves/


 


 



KilljoyCutter #41486 Posted Oct 13 2019 - 15:51

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View PostHOTA_CHATON, on Oct 12 2019 - 13:29, said:


Here's the CNN article on that very subject.  Interesting reading: https://www.cnn.com/...invs/index.html

 


Very typical of the ATF to try to keep the ruling as quiet as possible.

 

And gotta love that line seems to say it's extra-important because it involves a "demonized" firearm.


 



FrozenKemp #41487 Posted Oct 13 2019 - 16:08

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Another year older today and STILL ALIVE!!! 

Mermaid_Witch #41488 Posted Oct 13 2019 - 16:22

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View PostFrozenKemp, on Oct 13 2019 - 10:08, said:

Another year older today and STILL ALIVE!!! 

 

Happy Birthday and congratulations on the whole "still alive" thing.



FrozenKemp #41489 Posted Oct 13 2019 - 17:35

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View PostMermaid_Witch, on Oct 13 2019 - 10:22, said:

Happy Birthday and congratulations on the whole "still alive" thing.

 

Thanks! :)

 

I hope I can really get back into working on models this year. And finish this darn book (though I really do like working on it).



PrimarchRogalDorn #41490 Posted Oct 13 2019 - 19:10

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View PostKilljoyCutter, on Oct 13 2019 - 09:51, said:

 


Very typical of the ATF to try to keep the ruling as quiet as possible.

 

And gotta love that line seems to say it's extra-important because it involves a "demonized" firearm.


 


Almost as if any regulation on firearms is unconstitutional and they know it



DerViktim #41491 Posted Oct 13 2019 - 23:42

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View PostPrimarchRogalDorn, on Oct 13 2019 - 13:10, said:


Almost as if any regulation on firearms is unconstitutional and they know it

 

Its almost as though the regulations haven't been updated to reflect technological change. Nothing new here.



Haunt8dTank #41492 Posted Oct 14 2019 - 11:31

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View PostPrimarchRogalDorn, on Oct 13 2019 - 19:10, said:


Almost as if any regulation on firearms is unconstitutional and they know it


No Regulations on firearms? Gee I wonder why they wont let me yell fire in a theater? They are oppressing my constitutional free speech rights /s



Shrike58 #41493 Posted Oct 14 2019 - 12:24

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View PostKilljoyCutter, on Oct 11 2019 - 12:45, said:

Trump lawyers' "we reject your impeachment and won't cooperate" letter might be a wet squib:

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/10/limits-trumps-obstruction/599869/


Yovanovitch and Sondland are both testifying despite the letter and despite State Department (read, enabler Pompeo) "requests" that they not testify.   In Sondland's case, I do have to wonder if it's part of an effort to muddy the waters with testimony that contradicts the known evidence, or if he's decided to cover his own behind at this point by getting out ahead of things.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-impeachment-inquiry/after-uncertainty-yovanovitch-arrives-capitol-hill-testify-trump-impeachment-inquiry-n1064996


 

 

Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity.:sceptic:



Shrike58 #41494 Posted Oct 14 2019 - 12:25

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FrozenKemp, on Oct 13 2019 - 10:08, said:

Another year older today and STILL ALIVE!!! 

 

Happy birthday...:honoring:


Edited by Shrike58, Oct 14 2019 - 12:26.


Shrike58 #41495 Posted Oct 14 2019 - 12:32

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View PostKilljoyCutter, on Oct 10 2019 - 14:32, said:

My latest tier X in WOWS is the Zao.  Not a bad ship, but it just doesn't live up to the Hindenberg, Worcester, or Des Moines as a tier X cruiser.

 

The tier VI container for completing the anniversary Directives was obtained last night, and gave me the De Grasse, which all things considered was a pretty good score compared to some of the tier VI clunker premiums that are out there.  Played it once last night and it seems like a decent ship for tier VI.


 


 

 

I got an Arizona, which is certainly better than getting a Graf Spee!

 

I also recently got a Boise in a supercontainer.

 

Just unlocked the Hindenburg. (Killjoy; did you keep the Roon?)

 

I also got a cramp in my back from trying to get current French collection finished! I succeeded, but at what cost!


Edited by Shrike58, Oct 14 2019 - 12:47.


KilljoyCutter #41496 Posted Oct 14 2019 - 12:38

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View PostHaunt8dTank, on Oct 14 2019 - 05:31, said:


No Regulations on firearms? Gee I wonder why they wont let me yell fire in a theater? They are oppressing my constitutional free speech rights /s

 

The full line is “The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic.”

 

Of course, this was said in defense of the Espionage Act of 1917, and upheld sending people to prison for speech opposed to the draft for the crime of "obstructing the draft".

 

Schenck v. United States  has since been superseded by rulings that just about make it protected speech to falsely shout "fire" in a crowded theatre, unless you're telling people to start the fire.


 


Edited by KilljoyCutter, Oct 14 2019 - 12:38.


Shrike58 #41497 Posted Oct 14 2019 - 12:45

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Continuing to fall back in posting my reading. For your edification:

 

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0700622837/ref=nosim/librarythin06-20

 

https://www.amazon.com/When-Invasion-Land-Failed-Perspectives-dp-0231160577/dp/0231160577/ref=mt_paperback?_encoding=UTF8&me=&qid=

 

That value of the first is that it's a history told very much from the Vietnamese perspective and goes into great length about the relationship of the "Montagnards" to the Diem Regime; and a very unhappy relationship it was!

 

The second was just a little technical for me but what the author does very well is take known phenomena of fossils and geological features and put them in a context of what we know and what we don't know. Short version: The Devonian Period was a period of climate extremes and it was only on the third try that vertebrate creatures really got a solid foothold in terrestrial environments.


Edited by Shrike58, Oct 14 2019 - 14:32.


DerViktim #41498 Posted Oct 14 2019 - 15:17

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View PostShrike58, on Oct 14 2019 - 06:32, said:

 

I got an Arizona, which is certainly better than getting a Graf Spee!

 

I also recently got a Boise in a supercontainer.

 

Just unlocked the Hindenburg. (Killjoy; did you keep the Roon?)

 

I also got a cramp in my back from trying to get current French collection finished! I succeeded, but at what cost!

 

Every time I open a "super container" I get 150 standard flags of some sort. More or less I get nothing but the consolation prize. At this stage I really don't find anything super about "super containers".



KilljoyCutter #41499 Posted Oct 14 2019 - 16:58

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Giuliani is becoming a punchline:

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/13/joe-biden-rudy-giuliani-2020-045163

https://www.thedailybeast.com/john-oliver-thinks-rudy-giuliani-is-totally-screwed-trump-will-abandon-him

 

 


Edited by KilljoyCutter, Oct 14 2019 - 17:15.


Mermaid_Witch #41500 Posted Oct 14 2019 - 18:39

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couldn't happen to a more deserving person. 

 

 

...Well, I guess I can think of one person who's more deserving of becoming a punchline. 


Edited by Mermaid_Witch, Oct 14 2019 - 18:40.





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