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Massive Problem with WGLNA Fantasy League; Changes are Needed

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RayBus #1 Posted Feb 12 2017 - 18:17

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I really like playing in the WGLNA Fantasy League, but ... the current format is COMPLETELY UNFAIR, which takes away meaningfully from the experience.

 

I propose one of the following changes to the Fantasy League.

Option #1 (preferred): Allow participants to pick 8 players, but only count fantasy points for the top 7. In effect, drop the lowest score.

Option #2 (2nd choice): Require teams to submit a starting line-up of seven players for the first map to be played in a match. Wargaming would then publish the starting line-ups to the Fantasy League website no less than 6 hours preceding a match.

Option #3 (least preferred): Preclude WGLNA and wargaming employees from participating in the Fantasy League.

 

Why do I think changes to the Fantasy League are required?

 

There are many factors that go into picking a fantasy league roster; however, the most important factor is selecting players that play. A player that does not play does not generate fantasy points, while a very poor performance by a player that actually plays will generate at least 100 fantasy points.

 

If information about the status of WGLNA players was available to the entire World of Tanks community, I would have no objection to the current WGLNA Fantasy format. However, it's not. WGLNA players and Wargaming employees have a distinct advantage as they know, or are in a position to know, if a player will be playing in match or not.

 

The three options listed above curb the meaningful advantage enjoyed by WGLNA players and Wargaming employees by: 1) precluding them from playing; 2) providing player status information to all WGLNA Fantasy League participants; or 3) greatly reducing the informational advantage of WGLNA players and wargaming employees by mitigating the consequences of selecting a WGLNA player that "unexpectedly" does not play.

 

At present, the top 3 Fantasy League participants are indeed WGLNA players (i.e. Wallhacks, T1_Diabetic, mereelskirata). Coincidence ... I think not. Note that for the matches held on February 11, Wallhacks (Apex) T1_Diabetic (Eclipse) and Rockstarx1 (caster) benefited substantially from the knowledge that Vetro has not playing in advance of his transfer from Eclipse to Apex next week. Wallhacks, T1_Diabectic and Rockstarx1 selected Eclipse player NOnickNoskill (note: only selected by 9% of fantasy league participants) instead, while over 70% of fantasy league players picked Vetro. NOnickNoskill went on to score 436.1 fantasy points, while Vetro received zero as he did not play. Clearly, knowledge of Vetro's status was unknown to the community at large and at least 2 WGLNA players and 1 caster benefited substantially from privileged information (i.e. as members of Apex and Eclipse, Wallhacks and T1_Diabectic knew that Vetro was not playing, while Rockstarx1 let it slip that he knew about Vetro's transfer during the broadcast of February 11).

 

That's my two cents. I am curious what others think. I am not wedded to my point of view. The argument "life is unfair, suck it up" is completely acceptable. Nevertheless, if Wargaming is seeking to create a Fantasy League experience that is "fair", changes are needed.


Edited by RayBus, Feb 12 2017 - 19:25.


nekojima #2 Posted Feb 12 2017 - 18:36

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View PostRayBus, on Feb 12 2017 - 12:17, said:

I propose one of the following changes to the Fantasy League.

Option #1 (preferred): Allow participants to pick 8 players, but only count fantasy points for the top 7. In effect, drop the lowest score.

 

Option #3 (least preferred): Preclude WGLNA and wargaming employees from participating in the Fantasy League.

 

I've agree with Option 1 since we began playing this, but it hasn't happened yet. Though it was having an alternate in case one player did not play, not pick the top seven. Similar, but not entirely the same.

 

Option 3, that's already the case. They can play, but can not win any prizes. Its been that way since the beginning of fantasy tanks (AFAIK).

 



Fulcrous #3 Posted Feb 12 2017 - 19:11

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Option 2 simply isn't possible because real life can get in the way of a lot of things.

It's not like other pro-esports where attendance by everyone is mandatory because it's generally a LAN tournament.


Edited by Fulcrous, Feb 12 2017 - 19:11.


T1_Diabetic #4 Posted Feb 12 2017 - 20:09

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View PostRayBus, on Feb 12 2017 - 12:17, said:

I really like playing in the WGLNA Fantasy League, but ... the current format is COMPLETELY UNFAIR, which takes away meaningfully from the experience.

 

I propose one of the following changes to the Fantasy League.

Option #1 (preferred): Allow participants to pick 8 players, but only count fantasy points for the top 7. In effect, drop the lowest score.

Option #2 (2nd choice): Require teams to submit a starting line-up of seven players for the first map to be played in a match. Wargaming would then publish the starting line-ups to the Fantasy League website no less than 6 hours preceding a match.

Option #3 (least preferred): Preclude WGLNA and wargaming employees from participating in the Fantasy League.

 

 

First Option 1 I don't get because most teams do post lineups on twitter and the teams that don't you can look at the fantasy website and just pick the people who've played 100% of the battles to be safe. Also you can look at this for fantasy picks http://forum.worldof...pdated-for-211/

Then the third option has nothing to do with us we don't get any prizes we just simply do it for fun when we are playing.

Prizing Eligibility

 

The following are excluded from winning any prizing in this fantasy league:

 

  • WGLNA Gold League Players (aka Tournament Participants)
  • Wargaming Employees
  • ESL Employees
  • Accounts from any region other than North America (NA)

 

For the purposes of distributing prizing, places will be calculated excluding all ineligible users. As such, all prizing listed will be awarded.


Edited by T1_Diabetic, Feb 12 2017 - 20:12.


RayBus #5 Posted Feb 12 2017 - 20:39

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View PostT1_Diabetic, on Feb 12 2017 - 19:09, said:

First Option 1 I don't get because most teams do post lineups on twitter and the teams that don't you can look at the fantasy website and just pick the people who've played 100% of the battles to be safe. Also you can look at this for fantasy picks http://forum.worldof...pdated-for-211/

Then the third option has nothing to do with us we don't get any prizes we just simply do it for fun when we are playing.

Prizing Eligibility

 

The following are excluded from winning any prizing in this fantasy league:

 

  • WGLNA Gold League Players (aka Tournament Participants)
  • Wargaming Employees
  • ESL Employees
  • Accounts from any region other than North America (NA)

 

For the purposes of distributing prizing, places will be calculated excluding all ineligible users. As such, all prizing listed will be awarded.

 

1. Thank you for the World of Tanks forum link. Very much appreciated. I will circulate it to the other 800 of the 1100 Fantasy League participants on Saturday who are clearly unaware of it.

2. I understand WGLNA players and Wargaming employees cannot receive prizes. But, as I understand it, there remain 2 problems, specifically: i) their inclusion can preclude others from receiving prizes (note: should 3 WGLNA players remain at the top of the fantasy league, Wargaming will handout precisely zero T59s this season as opposed to the 3 indicated); and ii) it not all about prizes ... it's about testing your knowledge against other players in the community as well as the WGLNA players and caster you enjoy watching. If players and casters have knowledge that isn't widely to others ... then it's not really a test of anything.

 



T1_Diabetic #6 Posted Feb 12 2017 - 20:43

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View PostRayBus, on Feb 12 2017 - 14:39, said:

2. I understand WGLNA players and Wargaming employees cannot receive prizes. But, as I understand it, there remain 2 problems, specifically: i) their inclusion can preclude others from receiving prizes (note: should 3 WGLNA players remain at the top of the fantasy league, Wargaming will handout precisely zero T59s this season as opposed to the 3 indicated); 

 

It takes us out of that so if the season ended right now 4th 5th 6th place in the standings would get the type 59s. Also your note on vetro is completely false as to I posted on my twitter account he wouldn't be playing then our team account posted the starting lineup last night. How can we be at fault if people don't check twitter when we openly give that information. 

https://twitter.com/...731506385981440

https://twitter.com/...422846388178945


Edited by T1_Diabetic, Feb 12 2017 - 20:47.


Rockstarx1 #7 Posted Feb 12 2017 - 21:39

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First off, no one with a little icon next to their names is eligible for a prize. If you go to standings, filter "By Prizing", and then filter the "show" column to "Eligible Players Only" will show you the standings that prizes will be given out. We do not block others from reciving prizing. Simply ignore anyone with one of those icons when trying to figure out where you stand in prizing because the prizes go to the next Eligible player, they don't just disappear. 

 

Second. No information I used to form my fantasy team was "insider info"(not that it matters knowing the above). It was all public info if you took the time to look for it. eClipse posted their starting roster almost 12 full hours before a match took place Saturday morning. Top Tier had a "safe fantasy picks" post in twitter that included the only 5 players %100 certain to start several hours before their match.

 

Now occasionally, I do come across info from some teams (like apex who don't post on social) that is not available to the public. Do I keep it to myself? Nope. We have our "WGLNA Pre-Show on Facebook Live" at 8 PM EST. Myself, Ruukil, and a few others from the ESL office answer questions about the league, as well as fantasy. Anything important going on in the league (including things like Vetro not playing today or this being Ledifs last match for o7 etc). Follow the page and it should notify you anytime we go live. 

 

facebook.com/WGLNA/ 

 

Hopefully this is helpful. I'm more than happy to answer any other questions. 


Edited by Rockstarx1, Feb 12 2017 - 21:44.


RayBus #8 Posted Feb 12 2017 - 21:43

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View PostT1_Diabetic, on Feb 12 2017 - 19:43, said:

It takes us out of that so if the season ended right now 4th 5th 6th place in the standings would get the type 59s. Also your note on vetro is completely false as to I posted on my twitter account he wouldn't be playing then our team account posted the starting lineup last night. How can we be at fault if people don't check twitter when we openly give that information. 

https://twitter.com/...731506385981440

https://twitter.com/...422846388178945

 

1. Thank you for the clarification of the placings ... much appreciated.

2. T1 ... you are definitely not at fault for anything. Not only do you follow the rules, but you do one better by posting Eclipse's line-up to twitter. Not all teams are as forthcoming; thank you for that. You are a saint and a good Samaritan.

3. If there is fault ... it ultimately lies with me and those that picked Vetro. But ... to suggest that 70% of the participants in Saturday's fantasy league were too lazy to check Eclipse's Twitter feed to see who was playing ... that's ... a very unique point of view. Clearly the vast majority (i.e. at least 70%) of fantasy league participants are unaware of the resources available to them to help in their selection, including Eclipse's twitter page. While I and other fantasy players should accept responsibility in seeking out those resources, it would be helpful if Wargaming (e.g. Rockstarx1) would help in this regard rather than being mum ensuring such information can be exploited by a select few.



_Jdawgg #9 Posted Feb 12 2017 - 22:00

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View PostRayBus, on Feb 12 2017 - 13:43, said:

 

1. Thank you for the clarification of the placings ... much appreciated.

2. T1 ... you are definitely not at fault for anything. Not only do you follow the rules, but you do one better by posting Eclipse's line-up to twitter. Not all teams are as forthcoming; thank you for that. You are a saint and a good Samaritan.

3. If there is fault ... it ultimately lies with me and those that picked Vetro. But ... to suggest that 70% of the participants in Saturday's fantasy league were too lazy to check Eclipse's Twitter feed to see who was playing ... that's ... a very unique point of view. Clearly the vast majority (i.e. at least 70%) of fantasy league participants are unaware of the resources available to them to help in their selection, including Eclipse's twitter page. While I and other fantasy players should accept responsibility in seeking out those resources, it would be helpful if Wargaming (e.g. Rockstarx1) would help in this regard rather than being mum ensuring such information can be exploited by a select few.

 

This goes to your third point there, by saying people like Rockstar need to tell everyone where they can find this information. By that account, you are basically trying to be lazy and not do any work to actually find the information that is posted publicly.

 

While some of the teams don't use social media, that isn't the case for every team in Gold League. If you REALLY want to win that Type 59 at the end of the season, then you would put the work in yourself instead of expecting someone to come out and say "Look, I found information about the following night of Gold League." There are probably people out there playing fantasy, that actually take the couple minutes per team, look for their social media accounts and GET the information about the nights matches. Asking for it to just be handed to you on a silver platter, likely wouldn't give you the satisfaction of actually working for something and earning it yourself.



RayBus #10 Posted Feb 12 2017 - 22:45

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View PostRockstarx1, on Feb 12 2017 - 20:39, said:

Hopefully this is helpful. I'm more than happy to answer any other questions. 

 

Thank you Rockstarx1. I feel much better about the Fantasy League now. I will be sure to check out your pregame show. 

 

A suggestion if I may. Rather than expressing amazement at the symmetry of tank line-ups in the broadcast (note: that was so funny), perhaps Ruukil can talk briefly (30 seconds to 1 minute) about the resources he uses (e.g. your pregame show) to help him select his fantasy team and what you will learn from it. Maybe it's a small promo each broadcast for your pre-game show. Clearly, the vast majority of Fantasy League participants (i.e. the 70% that chose Vetro) are unaware of these resources. Fantasy players benefit from being better informed and you benefit by increasing your internet following; it's a win-win.

 

A lot of talk has been made on this post about prizes. It's not all about the prizes. If there were no prizes, I would still play fantasy league; it makes watching the streams more interesting and much of my enjoyment comes from competing against you, Rukiil and the remainder of the WGLNA. However, if the average player has no prospect of being competitive because they are unaware of valuable information available ... it's a bit discouraging.

 

Finally, I recognize I am making a mountain out of a molehill :) WGLNA "as-is" is amazing! Also thank you Rockstarx for all you do on WGLNA broadcast. Your commentary is excellent and very much appreciated. Keep up the great work.

 



RayBus #11 Posted Feb 12 2017 - 23:07

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View Post_Jdawgg, on Feb 12 2017 - 21:00, said:

 

This goes to your third point there, by saying people like Rockstar need to tell everyone where they can find this information. By that account, you are basically trying to be lazy and not do any work to actually find the information that is posted publicly.

 

While some of the teams don't use social media, that isn't the case for every team in Gold League. If you REALLY want to win that Type 59 at the end of the season, then you would put the work in yourself instead of expecting someone to come out and say "Look, I found information about the following night of Gold League." There are probably people out there playing fantasy, that actually take the couple minutes per team, look for their social media accounts and GET the information about the nights matches. Asking for it to just be handed to you on a silver platter, likely wouldn't give you the satisfaction of actually working for something and earning it yourself.

 

1. What is all this commentary of prizes. It's not about the prizes. A lot of the enjoyment comes from competing against you, Rockstarx, Rukiil and other WGLNA players. It would be nice to do so on a level playing field.

2. I am all for doing the work. You are aware of all these resources (e.g. forums, twitter), but I can assure they vast majority of the fantasy players are unaware of these resources and at least one of them isn't lazy. There is no point search for something you don't know exists. Now that I am aware ... I will gladly do the work.

3. Actually, as a commentator, by definition it is Rockstarx job to comment on, promote and provide relevant news on the WGLNA and the fantasy league. 


Edited by RayBus, Feb 12 2017 - 23:09.


blakyce #12 Posted Feb 13 2017 - 01:13

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I think your suggestion of having one pick dropped every week is a great idea. My friends and I follow NinjaGumby in the forum, try to catch the Facebook show and have a twitter list just for following line-ups. Still with real life being busy at 5:00 PST and players losing their internet during matches (thanks Bailes) you are always just one unfortunate event from dropping out of the prizes. I think everyone involved does a great job of running the fantasy and all of WGLNA, however if this tweak was possible I think it would be great.

_Jdawgg #13 Posted Feb 13 2017 - 02:15

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View PostRayBus, on Feb 12 2017 - 15:07, said:

 

1. What is all this commentary of prizes. It's not about the prizes. A lot of the enjoyment comes from competing against you, Rockstarx, Rukiil and other WGLNA players. It would be nice to do so on a level playing field.

2. I am all for doing the work. You are aware of all these resources (e.g. forums, twitter), but I can assure they vast majority of the fantasy players are unaware of these resources and at least one of them isn't lazy. There is no point search for something you don't know exists. Now that I am aware ... I will gladly do the work.

3. Actually, as a commentator, by definition it is Rockstarx job to comment on, promote and provide relevant news on the WGLNA and the fantasy league. 

 

Majority of people I know, always want prizes over everything else. If you say that is just a bonus for, I will take that at face value and believe you. There are however numerous people who that would be something they focus on. Also, you did happen to mention in your first post about how the WG/ESL Staff, WGLNA players are some of the top people, and that was a comment directed towards prizes. That is the last I will say about that for the time being.

 

I don't know all of the teams twitter or facebook pages, but in this day and age it shouldn't be too difficult for someone who wants to do well in fantasy to try to find any source of information so they could get themselves an edge. eSports is very tough to compare to things like NHL, MLB, NFL, etc. but, even in those it is still up to the person making their own picks, if they are serious about it, to actually look for the information sources. (I am Canadian, so if you don't know these stations, they are the big ones for anything sports here.) TSN, Sportsnet, and TheScore are places where a lot people look to get their information on potential injuries, illnesses to big name players, and whatever else if they do fantasy for sports leagues. They also will look at the teams websites. Now, as we already said, eSports cannot be straight compared, and while some other games have much bigger eSport leagues, WoT is trying to build into something substantial. Some teams currently right now may choose to focus on their scrims, watching replays, watching previous broadcasts of upcoming opponents to try to find their own edge in a match, rather then focusing on social media. The teams that do, it is more on the general public to do their own due diligence and actually look for these pages. They are not very difficult to find.

 

Rockstar is a commentator, and it is part of his job to relay relevant news on the WGLNA, but not fantasy. WG at one point (I don't recall exactly) I think planned to totally stop doing fantasy, and it was kept around by some of the players in GL making their own website to do it.



mereelskirata #14 Posted Feb 13 2017 - 03:00

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View Post_Jdawgg, on Feb 12 2017 - 17:15, said:

 

Rockstar is a commentator, and it is part of his job to relay relevant news on the WGLNA, but not fantasy. WG at one point (I don't recall exactly) I think planned to totally stop doing fantasy, and it was kept around by some of the players in GL making their own website to do it.

 

Also I do believe on multiple occasions Rockstar and Ruukil have talked about the WGLNA twitter and how teams post their expected lineups. (however it is subject to change last minute due to internet or computer problems)



Rockstarx1 #15 Posted Feb 13 2017 - 03:49

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View PostRayBus, on Feb 12 2017 - 13:45, said:

 

Thank you Rockstarx1. I feel much better about the Fantasy League now. I will be sure to check out your pregame show. 

 

A suggestion if I may. Rather than expressing amazement at the symmetry of tank line-ups in the broadcast (note: that was so funny), perhaps Ruukil can talk briefly (30 seconds to 1 minute) about the resources he uses (e.g. your pregame show) to help him select his fantasy team and what you will learn from it. Maybe it's a small promo each broadcast for your pre-game show. Clearly, the vast majority of Fantasy League participants (i.e. the 70% that chose Vetro) are unaware of these resources. Fantasy players benefit from being better informed and you benefit by increasing your internet following; it's a win-win.

 

A lot of talk has been made on this post about prizes. It's not all about the prizes. If there were no prizes, I would still play fantasy league; it makes watching the streams more interesting and much of my enjoyment comes from competing against you, Rukiil and the remainder of the WGLNA. However, if the average player has no prospect of being competitive because they are unaware of valuable information available ... it's a bit discouraging.

 

Finally, I recognize I am making a mountain out of a molehill :) WGLNA "as-is" is amazing! Also thank you Rockstarx for all you do on WGLNA broadcast. Your commentary is excellent and very much appreciated. Keep up the great work.

 

 

Thanks man. We can certainly work on things to help make improvements for everyone. We are having our Social Media guy (NinjaGumby) put together a Social Media Hub on the forums to create visibility from all the teams (or at least the ones that use social media consistently). This should hopefully take out some of the work people have to do when it comes to hunting down match day lines ups and team news. Just remember that is up to the teams to decided if/ when/ and how to share things, so it won't solve things %100. 

 

Thanks man! Glad to know people enjoy it. We are always working hard on improving. 

 

 

 

View Postmereelskirata, on Feb 12 2017 - 18:00, said:

 

Also I do believe on multiple occasions Rockstar and Ruukil have talked about the WGLNA twitter and how teams post their expected lineups. (however it is subject to change last minute due to internet or computer problems)

 

View Post_Jdawgg, on Feb 12 2017 - 17:15, said:

Rockstar is a commentator, and it is part of his job to relay relevant news on the WGLNA, but not fantasy. WG at one point (I don't recall exactly) I think planned to totally stop doing fantasy, and it was kept around by some of the players in GL making their own website to do it.

 

To be fair, relevant WGLNA news, is almost always fantasy news. There isn't a player whos are "Top Fantasy player" and not a "Top Player" in the league. If Vetro isn't starting for eClipse, thats WGLNA news, not just for Fantasy but for the team and league as a whole as it could impact results etc. 

 

We are all for trying to improve things that will benefit fans of our league! 

 



ninjagumby #16 Posted Feb 13 2017 - 07:47

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View PostT1_Diabetic, on Feb 12 2017 - 13:09, said:

First Option 1 I don't get because most teams do post lineups on twitter and the teams that don't you can look at the fantasy website and just pick the people who've played 100% of the battles to be safe. Also you can look at this for fantasy picks http://forum.worldof...pdated-for-211/

 

That thread is pretty great can confirm

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View PostRockstarx1, on Feb 13 2017 - 02:49, said:

 

Thanks man. We can certainly work on things to help make improvements for everyone. We are having our Social Media guy (NinjaGumby) put together a Social Media Hub on the forums to create visibility from all the teams (or at least the ones that use social media consistently). This should hopefully take out some of the work people have to do when it comes to hunting down match day lines ups and team news. Just remember that is up to the teams to decided if/ when/ and how to share things, so it won't solve things %100. 

 

Thanks man! Glad to know people enjoy it. We are always working hard on improving. 

 

Noticed you took this thread into consideration for tonight's matches, good on you for being a part of the community. Sometimes they have a valuable point and its nice to have input from you guys. Keep it up!



Rockstarx1 #18 Posted Feb 16 2017 - 03:26

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Here is the page NinjaGumby put together. Includes all of the social media relevant to the WGLNA. I would recommend checking the social media profiles 30-60 minutes before the match night starts to confirm your players are starting! 

 

http://forum.worldof...7#entry10764057







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