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KV-2 Gun


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moogleslam #1 Posted Feb 20 2017 - 18:49

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Before anyone comes in here outraged, and asking why this should even be a conversation, I get it; the 152mm derp gun is what makes the KV-2 special; what makes it fun.  I learned that in my first battle in it when I shot a full HP enemy KV-2 in the side of the turret and killed him in one shot :)

 

But is it actually the best?

 

Yes, the T-150 with the 107mm is a better tank than the KV-2 with the 107mm.  

 

However, isn't the KV-2 with the 107mm a better tank than the KV-2 with the 152mm?

 

Besides the obvious alpha potential and splash/module damage of the 152mm, the 107mm is superior in every way; DPM, penetration, aim time, accuracy, reload/rate of fire, dispersion after firing, elevation, shell velocity.

 

I've heard the argument that if you want to use the 107mm, you should just use the T-150 instead.  I've done that.  Now I'm playing the KV-2, and I want to have the most possible success with it; not necessarily the most fun.  Let's pretend I don't like fun :P



Faster_Blaster #2 Posted Feb 20 2017 - 18:55

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Not quite. As top tier it may work well with Zis gun, but I think is more desirable to use the derp gun as bottom tier. With HE you make damage no matter what (with a few exceptions, solid rock turrets). Also if you immobilize the enemy you can get assisted damage as well.

And, if you one shot tanks, same level or above, you'll get a huge smile on your face :)



Cpt_Zapp_Brannigan #3 Posted Feb 20 2017 - 18:56

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you go down the KV-2 line FOR the 152mm. It does not matter what is best. The only benefit of playing the 107mm (apart from the the better gun stats, which is negated by the fact that you should play the T-150 if you wan the 107mm) is that you can trick people into thinking you have the 152mm and be reloaded and ready to fire when they think you still have 10 secs to go.

Kamahl1234 #4 Posted Feb 20 2017 - 19:37

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I do believe that realistically, the 107mm is much more consistent and is a better gun to run. But the fun factor of the derp is generally considered to be more valuable to players. 

 

I ground my KV-2, to get the S-51 unlocked with the 107mm, then switched to the 152mm for fun. 



Spanktankk #5 Posted Feb 20 2017 - 19:54

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M6 Heavy > Any other T6 heavy, including KVwhatever with 107 :)

moogleslam #6 Posted Feb 20 2017 - 20:00

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View PostSpanktankk, on Feb 20 2017 - 13:54, said:

M6 Heavy > Any other T6 heavy, including KVwhatever with 107 :)

 

Yeah.... I don't think you're having the same conversation as everyone else.

Spanktankk #7 Posted Feb 20 2017 - 20:05

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View Postmoogleslam, on Feb 20 2017 - 14:00, said:

 

Yeah.... I don't think you're having the same conversation as everyone else.

 

I like pie.

 

I agree that the KV-2 was MADE for the derp.  If you want the 107, run it on the T-150.  Better mobility, armor, and dispersion stats all around...and losing only a tiny bit in the DPM department

http://tanks.gg/wot/compare#t:kv-2.c:t-150

My orig statement?

 

Just call me the "Gasai of the M6"  (purple color already trademarked)


Edited by Spanktankk, Feb 20 2017 - 20:17.


moogleslam #8 Posted Feb 22 2017 - 15:49

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View PostFaster_Blaster, on Feb 20 2017 - 12:55, said:

Not quite. As top tier it may work well with Zis gun, but I think is more desirable to use the derp gun as bottom tier. With HE you make damage no matter what (with a few exceptions, solid rock turrets). Also if you immobilize the enemy you can get assisted damage as well.

And, if you one shot tanks, same level or above, you'll get a huge smile on your face :)

 

This is true.  Connecting shots in the derp gun will generally yield more desirable results.  However, with the incredibly long reload and awful gun accuracy/aim time, landing shots isn't all that common.  You're landing a lot more shots in the 107mm, and it's actually got decent penetration, and with premium shells, even vs Tier 8.

 

View PostCpt_Zapp_Brannigan, on Feb 20 2017 - 12:56, said:

you go down the KV-2 line FOR the 152mm. It does not matter what is best. The only benefit of playing the 107mm (apart from the the better gun stats, which is negated by the fact that you should play the T-150 if you wan the 107mm) is that you can trick people into thinking you have the 152mm and be reloaded and ready to fire when they think you still have 10 secs to go.

 

In this case, it does matter what is best because that's specifically what I was asking.  I already covered best vs fun, and the whole T-150 argument above.  And yes, the element of surprise is nice.

 

View PostKamahl1234, on Feb 20 2017 - 13:37, said:

I do believe that realistically, the 107mm is much more consistent and is a better gun to run. But the fun factor of the derp is generally considered to be more valuable to players. 

 

I ground my KV-2, to get the S-51 unlocked with the 107mm, then switched to the 152mm for fun. 

 

Thanks for responding to my question.  Interesting that others recognize the 107mm as the best gun.

 

View PostSpanktankk, on Feb 20 2017 - 14:05, said:

 

I like pie.

 

I agree that the KV-2 was MADE for the derp.  If you want the 107, run it on the T-150.  Better mobility, armor, and dispersion stats all around...and losing only a tiny bit in the DPM department

http://tanks.gg/wot/compare#t:kv-2.c:t-150

My orig statement?

 

Just call me the "Gasai of the M6"  (purple color already trademarked)

 

I have the T-150, and I have the 107mm.  The KV-2 may very well be "made" for the derp, but will it give you more success than the 107mm?  I suspect not.



DeadmeatTSM #9 Posted Feb 23 2017 - 00:20

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You can't 1 shot 3 enemy Leo's on the red team with 3 shots using the 107. 

moogleslam #10 Posted Feb 23 2017 - 17:10

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View PostDeadmeatTSM, on Feb 22 2017 - 18:20, said:

You can't 1 shot 3 enemy Leo's on the red team with 3 shots using the 107. 

 

Okay, let's bite on this fictional scenario....

 

A Leo has 1100 HP, and the KV-2's 152mm HE shells do a damage range of 682 - 1138, so not only do you have to penetrate 3 times to do that, but you have to get incredibly high rolls.

 

Using an average damage roll, and with a standard layout of BIA, Vents, Rammer, the reload is 19.82 seconds, or for simplicity's sake, you'll fire 3 times in a minute for a total of 2755 damage.  Not enough to kill 3 Leo's (3300).  You'll need 1 more shot for that, so ~1 minute and 20 seconds (yes, I think I'm simplifying this because I'm not accounting for the time it takes to complete the firing motion)

 

With the same layout and the 107mm, you need ~ 1 minute 30 seconds to do the same 3300+ damage to kill 3 Leo's, so the KV-2 wins in this regard.

 

But as we know, things aren't that simple.  Again, the KV-2 has to penetrate, and while 86mm of penetration with HE shells is enough to even get through the Leo's abysmal 70mm of listed frontal armor, a shot on the mantlet, or some angling by the Leo means you won't penetrate or consequently get the full damage.  Not to mention that the KV-2's horrifically bad accuracy means there's a good chance you won't land the shell where you intend it to go, with the potential for a miss all together.  We haven't even touched on the painfully long reload, and the likelihood, or lack thereof, that the Leo will still be waiting to be shot by the time you are fully aimed.

 

Meanwhile, the 107mm's aim time and accuracy are far superior, and it's penetration is good enough to go through the most thickly armor parts of the Leo.

 

Sure, you can argue that you only need to land 4 average damage shots with the 152mm vs 11 with the 107mm.  We can get into exposure time, but again, the aim time of the 152mm leaves you more exposed than with the 107mm.  You'd have to be the luckiest guy alive to be landing multiple snap shots with the 152mm, but it's not out of the question with the 107mm; regardless, the 107mm aim time is significantly less.

 

You're right, you can't "1 shot 3 enemy Leo's on the red team with 3 shots using the 107", but as I think I've explained, your chance of killing them with the 107mm before you can do so with the 152mm is far greater. 



Waphlez #11 Posted Feb 23 2017 - 23:15

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152mm all the way. Using only the 152mm, I apparently have better average damage than 99.99% of players. It's good in every possible matchup you can get. The 107 is only better against tier 4s. A lot of people underestimate the premium AP rounds in it as well.



SargeanTravis #12 Posted Feb 06 2019 - 22:51

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View PostSpanktankk, on Feb 20 2017 - 19:54, said:

M6 Heavy > Any other T6 heavy, including KVwhatever with 107 :)

 

KV - 2

SargeanTravis #13 Posted Feb 06 2019 - 22:57

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View PostCpt_Zapp_Brannigan, on Feb 20 2017 - 18:56, said:

you go down the KV-2 line FOR the 152mm. It does not matter what is best. The only benefit of playing the 107mm (apart from the the better gun stats, which is negated by the fact that you should play the T-150 if you wan the 107mm) is that you can trick people into thinking you have the 152mm and be reloaded and ready to fire when they think you still have 10 secs to go.

 

Not really, speaking as the 107 is a MILE long

Meanwhile, the 152 is short and fat, even when looking down the barrel

So it's easy for you to figure out what's gonna kill you

 

Youre probably toast either way






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