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The Object 252U Defender's Cashgrab,, until being nerfed in a month


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_Shiro_Chan #21 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 05:19

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And here we have another noob, crying about Armor, 12k battles and still dont know, the differences between shell penetration? and what about weak spots? every match that i go obj 252 are the firsts to get recket, you know why? because ppl already know the obj weak spots, but looks like you dont...so please stop whining about armor and learn where to aim, and weak spots.. obj is easy to kill. (if you know what to do)



WhatsThisBoxFor #22 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 05:19

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View PostBavor, on Feb 27 2017 - 05:17, said:

 

Wow!  You think its OP?  Really?  Have you tried aiming when shooting it?  It has 5 or 6 frontal weak spots that you need 150mm-250mm of pen to go through it.  And the sides aren't that strong.  I killed on in a brawl with my IS-6 today.  And everyone was saying the 252 makes the IS-6 obsolete.

 

Instead of calling the tank OP, how about you learn about its weak spots and weaknesses?

But being hopelessly incompetent is so much easier than learning to play...



jack52096 #23 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 05:19

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View PostBavor, on Feb 26 2017 - 22:17, said:

 

Wow!  You think its OP?  Really?  Have you tried aiming when shooting it?  It has 5 or 6 frontal weak spots that you need 150mm-250mm of pen to go through it.  And the sides aren't that strong.  I killed on in a brawl with my IS-6 today.  And everyone was saying the 252 makes the IS-6 obsolete.

 

Instead of calling the tank OP, how about you learn about its weak spots and weaknesses?

Thank you 



BucephalusRider #24 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 05:24

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View PostDallen9, on Feb 27 2017 - 04:06, said:

To those replying "learn to play against it", "exploit it's weaknesses" that is irrelevant. This is not a discussion of how to destroy the tank, but whether it is over-performing compared to its peers.

 

It's only going to over-perform because nobody knows how to kill it. I understand what you're saying, and I'm not denying that it might be a bit too powerful, but new tank meta is just that.

The gun and the armor are complete opposites. The armor wants to sit at mid/long ranges, but the gun is too derpy to do anything except close to midish ranges.



MountainLion1 #25 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 05:24

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It dont need to be nerfed, nor will it be.

VooDooKobra #26 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 05:26

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the 252 is very close to the IS3 imo even though it is a little sloer, lower rate of fire the armor is very close especially the turret front  where the difference between the is3 and the 252 is 1mm


Dallen9 #27 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 05:28

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View PostWhatsThisBoxFor, on Feb 26 2017 - 22:03, said:

Mobile? That's a nice joke you did there. 

Similar DPM compared to other tier 8s? Yea similar to some of the worst tanks for DPM in the tier. And did you forget the god awful handling and accuracy which further lower the DPM, especially when you miss, because with higher alpha comes higher DOM loss when you crap handling let's you down on a key clutch shot on an enemy that made a mistake. 

Did you miss the fact that the Defenders lower plate takes up the vast majority of the vertical space of the hull, and is therefore very difficult to effectively hide?

Also the Defender, unlike the IS-7 has an easily damaged turret because the cupolas are very easily hit at the ranges this tank is designed for. 

IS-7 one of the most heavily armored tier 10s? Not by a significant margin.

 

I'll give you an A for effort though.

 

 

 

Block Quote

 Yea similar to some of the worst tanks for DPM in the tier. And did you forget the god awful handling and accuracy which further lower the DPM, especially when you miss, because with higher alpha comes higher DOM loss when you crap handling let's you down on a key clutch shot on an enemy that made a mistake. 

 

Worst tanks per DPM? of all tier 8 heavies it places at 25/37, ahead of tanks like the lowe, t34 and AMX M4 MLE.

It has the same DPM as the IS-3 which is considered one of the strongest tier 8 tanks. PLUS it has 440 alpha, compared to the IS-3's 390.

 

god awful handling? It has 6% better aim time than the IS-3, and 10% worse accuracy (5% better than the is-6). This is pretty much the only place it falls below the IS-3, but for tier 10 armor, i'd gladly have 30% worse accuracy.

 

Block Quote

 Did you miss the fact that the Defenders lower plate takes up the vast majority of the vertical space of the hull, and is therefore very difficult to effectively hide?

 

The lower plate of the defender when angled is stronger than the strongest point of the is-3 and is-6 when angled hull armors. The LFP "weakness" on this tank is stronger then the strongest point on the other tanks. Look at my initial post to see for yourself.

 

Block Quote

 

Also the Defender, unlike the IS-7 has an easily damaged turret because the cupolas are very easily hit at the ranges this tank is designed for. 

IS-7 one of the most heavily armored tier 10s? Not by a significant margin.

 At tier 8 the defender's turret is extremely strong, requiring enemies to be up close and have accurate guns. The turret is actually one of the few balanced things about the tank, having a weak-point pretty much the same as the IS-6's cupolas and the IS-3's over matched turret roof/

 

 

 

Anyways, If you reply to this, I would prefer if you actually include facts instead of phrases like "god awful handling and accuracy" and "similar to some of the worst tanks for DPM in the tier".

 

Also try posting on your account with more than 8 games played.

 

This tank is overpowered.

 

 

 



_Shiro_Chan #28 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 05:28

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Im pretty sure that WG will not nerf it, if do a lot of ppl will stop playing with, and even worst, some ppl will ask the money back.


Edited by _Shiro_Chan, Feb 27 2017 - 05:30.


Dhizi #29 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 05:29

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I remember when I didn't know how to aim.

Karl__Childers #30 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 05:29

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View PostHarkonen_siegetank, on Feb 26 2017 - 22:54, said:

 

And yet it sees tier 6-7 like normal. This is where the problem lies, it just rolfstomp them like nothing. The same exact iasue back then Type 59 went out, WG never learn.

 

Except that a tier 8 premium is going to see 9's and 10's WAY more than it's ever going to be top tier...

orangeandblue #31 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 05:31

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I have the "new tank smell" temptation to buy it but I'm kind of trying to hold off because I feel like World of Tanks has too many other issues that need to be addressed, like maps, MM and figuring out how to improve that regardless of their refusal to introduce any type of skilled match-making into the system, it needs to be based on number of games played or something at least to (help) prevent the utter steam rolls. I've just been spending most of my time over at World of Warships, it just seems to be a much more superior game even though it's still a Wargaming product. It seems like World of Tanks and World of Warships are from two different worlds, though.

Edited by orangeandblue, Feb 27 2017 - 05:32.


_Shiro_Chan #32 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 05:31

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Also a lot of ppl are DUMB enough to wanna face to face the obj, knowing that is a heavy, and get raped cuz is a noob. and then blame the tank...tipical...



Dallen9 #33 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 05:35

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View Postjack52096, on Feb 26 2017 - 22:13, said:

Why are people [edited]it about it being OP? Do you own one? If not then be quiet. I love mine but it's not even close to OP with that giant lower plate that can easily be penned. Just shut up already 

 

The WEAKEST point on the Defender's lower hull when angled is stronger than the IS-3's STRONGEST upper hull armor. This is a discussion of whether the tank is unbalanced not "Its not OP because my tank gets damaged in LFP"

 

View Post_Shiro_Chan, on Feb 26 2017 - 22:19, said:

And here we have another noob, crying about Armor, 12k battles and still dont know, the differences between shell penetration? and what about weak spots? every match that i go obj 252 are the firsts to get recket, you know why? because ppl already know the obj weak spots, but looks like you dont...so please stop whining about armor and learn where to aim, and weak spots.. obj is easy to kill. (if you know what to do)

 

Yet again i will state

 

View PostDallen9, on Feb 27 2017 - 05:06, said:

To those replying "learn to play against it", "exploit it's weaknesses" that is irrelevant. This is not a discussion of how to destroy the tank, but whether it is over-performing compared to its peers.



_Gungrave_ #34 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 05:39

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View PostWhatsThisBoxFor, on Feb 27 2017 - 05:13, said:

What is a tier 6 ELC?

 

You'd be surprised how often people confuse the ELC as being a tier 6...even I've made that mistake.

_Shiro_Chan #35 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 05:39

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View PostDallen9, on Feb 27 2017 - 13:35, said:

 

The WEAKEST point on the Defender's lower hull when angled is stronger than the IS-3's STRONGEST upper hull armor. This is a discussion of whether the tank is unbalanced not "Its not OP because my tank gets damaged in LFP"

 

 

Yet again i will state

 

 

Why so shy mr.12k battles~~ ?? OBJ is a strong tank for ppl that is dumb enough to not know weak spots, also if the obj angle just aim the commanders hatch. Use your Brain. (if you have one) instead cry about a tank that you dont have it to say if is (OP as you say) we are tired of players like you, that only knows cry about everything in this game.



Dallen9 #36 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 05:43

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Seeing as some posters are focusing on "the player's skill in fighting against the tank" and not "the tank in comparison to it's peers (whether it is balanced)". It is a waste of my time to use facts in a discussion which is off-topic and based on opinion and bias.

 

Anyways i will leave this video as further discussion to the balance of the defender. Goodnight all



BaD_cOmPaNy_37 #37 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 05:52

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I thought the ELC was 6.  Last time I played one I think it was 2014....  :)

 



TheAngelOfRoses #38 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 06:03

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View PostDallen9, on Feb 26 2017 - 23:43, said:

Seeing as some posters are focusing on "the player's skill in fighting against the tank" and not "the tank in comparison to it's peers (whether it is balanced)". It is a waste of my time to use facts in a discussion which is off-topic and based on opinion and bias.

 

Anyways i will leave this video as further discussion to the balance of the defender. Goodnight all

 

Are you just gonna keep throwing videos to hide behind at these people? All just because like what? 2 or 3 youtubers think this thing is going to be Overpowered means it is?

Have you ever tried to flank one of these things? Have you ever just considered aiming at their weakspots? Dabbing 2 and clicking the LFP?

#10/10NightFam

VooDooKobra #39 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 06:03

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sorry please no nerf I am tired of being in the age where every premium the game puts out has to come with that hashtage #POS #donotbuy #wasteofmoney #cashgrab

 

the forums were fuille with complaining when the tanks were bad and had pref MM, there was complaining them the tanks were the same pref MM tans but no pref MM and now it seems some of the playerbase was happier when every premium was crap.  do you really think people would keep buying non competitive tanks?  at some point WG had to start making premiums good.

 



Bavor #40 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 06:31

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View PostDallen9, on Feb 26 2017 - 23:28, said:

It has the same DPM as the IS-3 which is considered one of the strongest tier 8 tanks. PLUS it has 440 alpha, compared to the IS-3's 390.

 

Yet the IS-3 is on the low end of DPM for tier 8 heavies.  The IS-3's strengths come form its mobility, reverse side scraping ability,  and gun handling.  When the 252 tries to side scrape the upper plate is a lot easier to pen and you only need 225-250mm of penetration to go right through.  When the 252 reverse side scrapes its got a giant weak spot in the rear that gets exposed.  The 252's gun handling is a lot worse than the IS-3.

 

Block Quote

god awful handling? It has 6% better aim time than the IS-3, and 10% worse accuracy (5% better than the is-6). This is pretty much the only place it falls below the IS-3, but for tier 10 armor, i'd gladly have 30% worse accuracy.

 

You really need to look up the gun handling stats of the IS-3 and 252.  The 252 does have much worse gun handling than the IS-3.  The IS-3's dispersion on turret traverse is the same as the M46 KR, M48 Patton and its better than the M60 Jesus.  There is a lot more to gun handling than accuracy and aim time.  The 252 has much worse dispersion.  The 252's gun handling is worse than the IS-6, 112, and WZ-111.

 

Try to compare the gun handling here:

http://tanks.gg/wot/compare#t:obj-252u.c:is-3.c:is-6.c:wz-111.c:110.c:112

 

Block Quote

At tier 8 the defender's turret is extremely strong, requiring enemies to be up close and have accurate guns. The turret is actually one of the few balanced things about the tank, having a weak-point pretty much the same as the IS-6's cupolas and the IS-3's over matched turret roof/

 

In addition to the cupolas, the turret has two frontal weak spots that many tier 8 heavies can pen.  If you bother to look around at the 3d armor model you can easily find them.  I posted them in another reply to someone like you that thinks the tank is OP and has no weak spots.  Try looking to the left and right of the gun.

 

Block Quote

 Anyways, If you reply to this, I would prefer if you actually include facts instead of phrases like "god awful handling and accuracy" and "similar to some of the worst tanks for DPM in the tier".

 

You seem to either ignore facts or just don't understand them when it comes to tank stats.

 

Block Quote

 This tank is overpowered.

 

Nope, that is not a fact.  Its a good tier 8 heavy, but there are many tier 8 tanks that are just as good for other reasons and many tier 8 tanks that can easily destroy a 252/Defender.  The new VK 100.01P is just as strong yet there aren't 30 posts a day on the forum calling it OP.

 

The 252 doesn't have almost the same mobility as the IS-3.  The 252 has a lower power to weight ratio and worse terrain resistance on all types of terrain.  Its actually closer to the IS-6 in mobility than the IS-3 if you look up the HP/ton and and terrain resistance values.  The IS-5 also has better mobility than the 252 and the IS-5 isn't as mobile as the IS-3.  The WZ-111 even has better mobility than the 252.  When you get to a hill, the IS-3 and IS-5 are faster uphill.

 

I won the 252, IS-3, IS-5, IS-6, and WZ-111 and know how fast each of them are.  Even with my 5 skill soviet heavy crew in my 252, my friends are faster in their IS-3s especially uphill.

 

Block Quote

 To those replying "learn to play against it", "exploit it's weaknesses" that is irrelevant. This is not a discussion of how to destroy the tank, but whether it is over-performing compared to its peers.

 

That's the thing it doesn't over perform compared to its peers.  There are many players who don't do well in it because they don't know how to play it.  The only reason some players are doing well in it now is pubbies heard its OP and are afraid of it and haven't learned its weak spots and how to defeat one.  The same thing was said of the AMX M4 49 and T26E5.  Yet every below average players I see playing a 252/Defender doesn't do well in them.  I had a battle tonight where I farmed the hit points of a 252 in my panther 8.8 from close range.  Why could I farm a 252 so easily?  Because I knew where to shoot it and when to shoot it and how to maneuver around it.  I love seeing "average" and "below average" players in a 252/Defender because I know I can farm them for their HP.

 

Also, the 252 doesn't seem to do as well in tier 10 battles as many other tier 8 heavies when I see them in tier 10 battles.  The 252 is a one trick pony that only can use that trick well in tier 8 battles where its not against higher tier tanks with better mobility and gun handling.

 

 

 






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