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A brief opinion on the current Sandbox iteration

Sandbox Iteration 3 Arty Light Tanks

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ExdeathYourJudge #1 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 17:02

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Oh boy... where do I even BEGIN with another Sandbox iteration...

Arty Changes:
Again, in my opinion, Arty is fine outside of a few rare exceptions (Looking at you FV304) in the base game. Changing it to this degree is still a bad idea. I still don't mind Arty having that "One-Shot wonder" effect from time to time as it does now, and see no reason to change it completely.
Stun: Still overall annoying. As I have stated before, would be a semi-decent concept on Derp Guns or High-Caliber HE, but it has too much lasting effect as-is.
AP/HEAT removed: Eh? With Arty still being super inaccurate overall, this seems rather irrelevant, so my opinion is neutral.

Overall: Arty still boring to play, and the usual "old habits die hard" of Arty continues on. Arty will still focus the wrong tanks, or ruin the days of every Maus/Type 5 player ever.

Reusable Consumables:
Ok.... I am at least pleased to see a cooldown... but this is ridiculous. This just gives people more of a reason to run away and stall out combat until their Kits have recharged, and THEN go in and fight. I don't think this should be implemented at all. Period.

Tier 10 Lights:
And here is the root of my problem... First off, I only got to drive one Light tank ONCE on the server, and it went how I thought it would go: Either long-range full-camo snipe fest, or two+ Light Tanks rushing down a Heavy tank. I was running the Sheridan, and hit/penned 75% of my shots from the new 105mm, including most of my on-the-move full-speed shots. Whether I was just lucky or whether the on-the-move accuracy is ridiculous, I don't know, but I felt bad for the enemy Type 5 Heavy. At an overall glace, because I couldn't actually drive the rest, the other Tier 10 Lights are more of the same: High Speed, Spotting, and Camo with good guns. Oh, and a question, why the heck does the German Tier 10 have TWO Loaders? Any particular reason behind this? Cause I couldn't find one. Overall, these SCOUTS should be SCOUTS and not Medium Tanks 2.0, like the current server problems.

Final Words (for now): I realize this is the Sandbox, and the odds of most of this going (as is) into the Standard World of Tanks is slim... but, to do date, none of the actual problems to the game have been fixed. I mean.... Arty hasn't really been changed on the actual server yet, and the WG and the Sandbox can't seem to fix it. Why are we even touching consumables? Their is no need to here. And the new Lights 100% need a nice bit of balancing/nerfing before WG should even consider tossing them into the wilds of the Standard Server. At the very least, the new over-match mechanics are (hopefully) being looked at. I'll probably continue giving feedback the more I play with the sandbox.



ExdeathYourJudge #2 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 17:07

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Oh, by the way, to explain the only one-match in the Light Tank: The reason I was only able to play one match is because the Sandbox Server only allowed ONE match. I wanted to try the German Light next, but it refused to let me play. Then, after writing my initial reaction, the server went down. So... Yay, I guess.

rogar712 #3 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 19:00

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At first I didn't like the change idea of arty, but I am getting used to it the more I play it.  I have been averageing 2 kills per battle overall. So it wouldn't bother me so much as an arty player. Now saying that, this will piss off all the other players. Arty in the SB reloads half the time that it does in the actual game and is more accurate. Yes, it really can't one shot you, at least in most cases, but I am finding that the tanks that get hit by arty get devistated and destroyed instantly. So instead of getting one shotted by arty, the friendly tanks are taking the enemy tanks out just as fast. I especially like being able to stun a group of tanks at once, the lights and mediums especially. 

 

As an arty player, you will have to work with the team more so, otherwise when you damage/stun a tank, he will just repair and move on if no one is there to put additional shots into, so this will have to be a team effort more so than how its played in game now. 

 

Still, I think the stun effect idea is not going to be good for WOT, too many players, especially the ones that hate arty now are not going to like the stun effect. This is going to create alot of hate in the game. 



ExdeathYourJudge #4 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 19:10

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View Postrogar712, on Feb 27 2017 - 18:00, said:

At first I didn't like the change idea of arty, but I am getting used to it the more I play it.  I have been averageing 2 kills per battle overall. So it wouldn't bother me so much as an arty player. Now saying that, this will piss off all the other players. Arty in the SB reloads half the time that it does in the actual game and is more accurate. Yes, it really can't one shot you, at least in most cases, but I am finding that the tanks that get hit by arty get devistated and destroyed instantly. So instead of getting one shotted by arty, the friendly tanks are taking the enemy tanks out just as fast. I especially like being able to stun a group of tanks at once, the lights and mediums especially. 

 

As an arty player, you will have to work with the team more so, otherwise when you damage/stun a tank, he will just repair and move on if no one is there to put additional shots into, so this will have to be a team effort more so than how its played in game now. 

 

Still, I think the stun effect idea is not going to be good for WOT, too many players, especially the ones that hate arty now are not going to like the stun effect. This is going to create alot of hate in the game. 

If the stun wasn't averaging 20-30 seconds and didn't completely screw tanks over, then maybe.
Now, while I agree that this makes tanks have to work with Arty, the standard WoT player tends to be rather un-team like, hence why "Lemming Trains" and the likes exist. Implementing an overall frustrating concept that requires Teamwork is most definitely going to have a negative result.



ExdeathYourJudge #5 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 19:34

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Well... after a few games I can give some individual tank comments and concerns:

XM551 Sheridan: A bit surprised with this one, as I'd assumed I'd play this just like the current T49. Instead, I dropped the 152 for the 105 mm which, frankly, never seems to miss. Overall, the Speed and Maneuverability is not far off what I expected, but I do find little-to-incentive to use the 152mm. Flat sides and rear armor, for those who love HE and can hit it. View Range is on the lower end of the Tier 10 Light spectrum.

RHM Panzerwagen: This things is fast (current 75 km/h) with maneuverability to keep it at those high speeds as well as the highest View Range (440m) . All around good 105mm gun with 10 degrees gun depression. Little to no armour, with the same flat sides as the Sheridan. Overall, I feel this thing will get a speed/maneuverability, and I am concerned for the high View Range, I'll explain in a second,

WZ-132-1: Overallm this feels more like a fast Medium Tank. Its 105mm isn't fast firing, but gets the job done. Turret armor is pretty good, it's your typical Russian Dome design, though the hull is bad (but angled). View Range is the middle-ground for the Lights.

 

Overall: These tanks, while fun to play, are a headache to fight against. The Light's inherent "Full Camo while moving" coupled with a minimum of 420m View Range make them hard to find, harder still to hit, and they can hurt things on the move easily enough. My biggest concern is not the Mobile Lights, but instead the Camping Lights. With that high View Range, I have seen Passive Scouts (presumably with Nets and Binos) quite a bit more, as well as ones that play the "Strike and Fade" style of hiding, firing a shot, and backing off, making for an infuriating game of hide-and-seek for Heavies, and some Mediums. The only time I've seen this not work out, is in the case of Arty shells splashing the Lights.

 

Arty and Lights: Oh this one particularly infuriated me. Why Artillery would ever shoot an on-the-move Light Tank and not, say, any other stationary target that is actually causing trouble, is beyond me. But it still happens. Thanks to the larger splash radius, Arty can actually hit Light Tanks EASIER than before and severely cripple them. In addition, with the bigger splash, I've been stunned by my own teammates indiscriminately firing at an enemy while I, or another friendly, are well within the splash radius. Yes, I realize Arty Shells take a few moments to come in, but when two tanks have been fighting for a good thirty seconds, then a shell lands between them and stuns them both, it's a bit ridiculous. Even more so with friendly Light Tanks circling heavier targets.

 

Oh, also, for those wondering, it seems that you can play a Light Tank every 5ish matches of any other tank, so eventually you'll get the chance to play them all.


Edited by ExdeathYourJudge, Feb 27 2017 - 19:36.


ExdeathYourJudge #6 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 19:48

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So a change to my comment about Arty not having HEAT or AP: If WG plans to remove these, then they need to fix a few of the Perks, like Deadeye or Intuition so they are at least semi-useful to Artillery. Intuition just helps when swapping to Premium shells right now, and Deadeye is completely useless.
Also, may want to place that "You can only play X-Tank Type after doing 5ish battles" on Artillery, would clear out the massive amounts of Arty players in the Sandbox Queue.


Edited by ExdeathYourJudge, Feb 27 2017 - 19:53.


AndresJavier #7 Posted Feb 27 2017 - 21:17

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Totally agree!!!

Rummon #8 Posted Mar 21 2017 - 01:31

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I have played arty for some time ( I know I know, heard it all before) i do not have the ridiculously fast reaction times that real tankers have but they did not come with my pension cheque.  :)

I have recently had a chance to play in the new sandbox and I was excited to see what changes that they have proposed.  Although I enjoy watching a tank blow up in cloud of smoke and fire I feel that there has to be more types of play options to explore.

I am not the world's greatest player but these are my opinions

Pros - the new aiming mechanics make a dramatic change in my play style as I can actually get an bead on my opponent rather than doing all the calculations of terrain etc etc..then hope I got the hill grades correct.  The improved Aoe effect is a boon, at least to the fact that you have a chance to snare a guy that is hiding behind a rock or other cover.  In a real the world, as it exists now trying to hit a tank dead on is difficult to say the least, for me anyways the loss of HEAT and AP is not a great loss.

 

Negs. - WOT tells the public that the arty gets a share of the damage dealt when a tank is stunned.  I have found these cases to be few and far between.  Any tanker worth their salt will immediately heal themselves and mitigate the stun effect thus eliminating the stun points the arty gets.  The cool down of the heal is incredibly fast when you compare it against the load and aim time of the arty.  The math is not difficult to figure out.  Wot is enticing arty to become more involved in the game play.  As most arty scream along at 7 KPH the game play that they are trying to helpn has already moved to the other side of the map.  Zero camo becomes a big issue during this trek across the world also which is a reason that arty generally pick a good spot and hope and pray that they do not get spotted.  The stun effect is a wonderful tool when some scout finds you and you stun his [edited]and race away at your top speed of 7KPH, really!  If WOT wants to be realistic in their wish for arty to join the fray then they must give the Arty the tools to do so. IE: speed and camo

 

I was personally hoping that arty will once again earn the experience points for assisted damage done.  A regular tank gets damage points for being in the area when your tank happens to have aimed at an opponent recently or when a tank pops up somewhere on your screen and is deemed "spotted".  A perk that continues after death.  I wish that is true across the board for all players.

When you subtract all those assist points, the question begs to be asked " how much have you really contributed to your team's efforts?"  It is always the top few players that is holding  the game the rest are just reaping the benefits of their hard work.  When I play a "regular tank" I generally follow along on the coattails of the real players, so I am just as guilty.  If WOT was true to their word then they would eliminate these points so the real players can get the experience points that they have truly earned.

 

That is my whine and snivel, and I have more, but what is the point of rehashing old news.  For those of you who are wishing for the death knell for the arty you may soon see it on the horizon.  With the lack of progression in comparison to "regular" tanks.  I feel that the changes will tend to dissuade noobs and old folks like me from getting into that particular line.  If WOT, who is bowing to the pressure of it's paying players, (which I am BTW) to do "something" about Arty and the players themselves who wish it gone completely you may get what wish for.  Beware tho I have heard the same sort of complaints about TD's will it follow Arty soon?

 



Rummon #9 Posted Mar 21 2017 - 01:42

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I have played arty for some time ( I know I know, heard it all before) i do not have the ridiculously fast reaction times that real tankers have but they did not come with my pension cheque.  :)

I have recently had a chance to play in the new sandbox and I was excited to see what changes that they have proposed.  Although I enjoy watching a tank blow up in cloud of smoke and fire I feel that there has to be more types of play options to explore.

I am not the world's greatest player but these are my opinions

Pros - the new aiming mechanics make a dramatic change in my play style as I can actually get an bead on my opponent rather than doing all the calculations of terrain etc etc..then hope I got the hill grades correct.  The improved Aoe effect is a boon, at least to the fact that you have a chance to snare a guy that is hiding behind a rock or other cover.  In a real the world, as it exists now trying to hit a tank dead on is difficult to say the least, for me anyways the loss of HEAT and AP is not a great loss.

 

Negs. - WOT tells the public that the arty gets a share of the damage dealt when a tank is stunned.  I have found these cases to be few and far between.  Any tanker worth their salt will immediately heal themselves and mitigate the stun effect thus eliminating the stun points the arty gets.  The cool down of the heal is incredibly fast when you compare it against the load and aim time of the arty.  The math is not difficult to figure out.  Wot is enticing arty to become more involved in the game play.  As most arty scream along at 7 KPH the game play that they are trying to helpn has already moved to the other side of the map.  Zero camo becomes a big issue during this trek across the world also which is a reason that arty generally pick a good spot and hope and pray that they do not get spotted.  The stun effect is a wonderful tool when some scout finds you and you stun his [edited]and race away at your top speed of 7KPH, really!  If WOT wants to be realistic in their wish for arty to join the fray then they must give the Arty the tools to do so. IE: speed and camo

 

I was personally hoping that arty will once again earn the experience points for assisted damage done.  A regular tank gets damage points for being in the area when your tank happens to have aimed at an opponent recently or when a tank pops up somewhere on your screen and is deemed "spotted".  A perk that continues after death.  I wish that is true across the board for all players.

When you subtract all those assist points, the question begs to be asked " how much have you really contributed to your team's efforts?"  It is always the top few players that is holding  the game the rest are just reaping the benefits of their hard work.  When I play a "regular tank" I generally follow along on the coattails of the real players, so I am just as guilty.  If WOT was true to their word then they would eliminate these points so the real players can get the experience points that they have truly earned.

 

That is my whine and snivel, and I have more, but what is the point of rehashing old news.  For those of you who are wishing for the death knell for the arty you may soon see it on the horizon.  With the lack of progression in comparison to "regular" tanks.  I feel that the changes will tend to dissuade noobs and old folks like me from getting into that particular line.  If WOT, who is bowing to the pressure of it's paying players, (which I am BTW) to do "something" about Arty and the players themselves who wish it gone completely you may get what wish for.  Beware tho I have heard the same sort of complaints about TD's will it follow Arty soon?



Kenshin2kx #10 Posted Mar 21 2017 - 01:55

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View Postrogar712, on Feb 27 2017 - 08:00, said:

At first I didn't like the change idea of arty, but I am getting used to it the more I play it.  I have been averageing 2 kills per battle overall. So it wouldn't bother me so much as an arty player. Now saying that, this will piss off all the other players. Arty in the SB reloads half the time that it does in the actual game and is more accurate. Yes, it really can't one shot you, at least in most cases, but I am finding that the tanks that get hit by arty get devistated and destroyed instantly. So instead of getting one shotted by arty, the friendly tanks are taking the enemy tanks out just as fast. I especially like being able to stun a group of tanks at once, the lights and mediums especially. 

 

As an arty player, you will have to work with the team more so, otherwise when you damage/stun a tank, he will just repair and move on if no one is there to put additional shots into, so this will have to be a team effort more so than how its played in game now. 

 

Still, I think the stun effect idea is not going to be good for WOT, too many players, especially the ones that hate arty now are not going to like the stun effect. This is going to create alot of hate in the game. 

 

If it creates more hate and division in the game, I'd be surprised.  Hatfields and McCoys, Montagues and Capulets ... Tanks and Arties  ... 



addiboy5207 #11 Posted Mar 21 2017 - 03:13

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View PostExdeathYourJudge, on Feb 27 2017 - 18:34, said:

Well... after a few games I can give some individual tank comments and concerns:

XM551 Sheridan: A bit surprised with this one, as I'd assumed I'd play this just like the current T49. Instead, I dropped the 152 for the 105 mm which, frankly, never seems to miss. Overall, the Speed and Maneuverability is not far off what I expected, but I do find little-to-incentive to use the 152mm. Flat sides and rear armor, for those who love HE and can hit it. View Range is on the lower end of the Tier 10 Light spectrum.

RHM Panzerwagen: This things is fast (current 75 km/h) with maneuverability to keep it at those high speeds as well as the highest View Range (440m) . All around good 105mm gun with 10 degrees gun depression. Little to no armour, with the same flat sides as the Sheridan. Overall, I feel this thing will get a speed/maneuverability, and I am concerned for the high View Range, I'll explain in a second,

WZ-132-1: Overallm this feels more like a fast Medium Tank. Its 105mm isn't fast firing, but gets the job done. Turret armor is pretty good, it's your typical Russian Dome design, though the hull is bad (but angled). View Range is the middle-ground for the Lights.

 

Overall: These tanks, while fun to play, are a headache to fight against. The Light's inherent "Full Camo while moving" coupled with a minimum of 420m View Range make them hard to find, harder still to hit, and they can hurt things on the move easily enough. My biggest concern is not the Mobile Lights, but instead the Camping Lights. With that high View Range, I have seen Passive Scouts (presumably with Nets and Binos) quite a bit more, as well as ones that play the "Strike and Fade" style of hiding, firing a shot, and backing off, making for an infuriating game of hide-and-seek for Heavies, and some Mediums. The only time I've seen this not work out, is in the case of Arty shells splashing the Lights.

 

Arty and Lights: Oh this one particularly infuriated me. Why Artillery would ever shoot an on-the-move Light Tank and not, say, any other stationary target that is actually causing trouble, is beyond me. But it still happens. Thanks to the larger splash radius, Arty can actually hit Light Tanks EASIER than before and severely cripple them. In addition, with the bigger splash, I've been stunned by my own teammates indiscriminately firing at an enemy while I, or another friendly, are well within the splash radius. Yes, I realize Arty Shells take a few moments to come in, but when two tanks have been fighting for a good thirty seconds, then a shell lands between them and stuns them both, it's a bit ridiculous. Even more so with friendly Light Tanks circling heavier targets.

 

Oh, also, for those wondering, it seems that you can play a Light Tank every 5ish matches of any other tank, so eventually you'll get the chance to play them all.

 

I thought the Sheridan had the 2nd best view range?

Edited by addiboy5207, Mar 21 2017 - 03:14.


GeorgePreddy #12 Posted Mar 21 2017 - 18:27

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View PostExdeathYourJudge, on Feb 27 2017 - 15:34, said:

Well... after a few games I can give some individual tank comments and concerns:

 

Arty and Lights:   ...with the bigger splash, I've been stunned by my own teammates indiscriminately firing at an enemy while I, or another friendly, are well within the splash radius. Yes, I realize Arty Shells take a few moments to come in, but when two tanks have been fighting for a good thirty seconds, then a shell lands between them and stuns them both, it's a bit ridiculous. Even more so with friendly Light Tanks circling heavier targets.

 

 

 

I foresee arty being TK'd at the beginning of battle far more frequently due to the above.

 

Mind you, I didn't propose or condone it...    ;)



Kenshin2kx #13 Posted Mar 22 2017 - 21:40

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View PostGeorgePreddy, on Mar 21 2017 - 07:27, said:

 

I foresee arty being TK'd at the beginning of battle far more frequently due to the above.

 

Mind you, I didn't propose or condone it...    ;)

 

... hmmmmm, possible ... now add to this ... I foresee people doing what they will do, thus causing WG to do what they have the authority to do ... usually making those who started it all to regret their actions ... but oh well, there is always a new finger itching to get burned.

Mikosah #14 Posted Mar 22 2017 - 23:19

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As for the arty situation, the fact remains that in a game that revolves around line-of-sight, positioning, and cover use, an indirect weapon like arty was always impossible to balance using any of the same rules that apply to any of the other classes. If arty was ever reliable or consistent, then getting to heave shells right over cover and outside of render range might as well be cheating. And in the current situation where arty is unreliable and random, then it becomes a lose-lose for everyone. Given the choice, I like the idea of an indirect-fire support/assist unit more than the idea of an indirect-fire damage dealer. But indirect is still a big problem either way. 

 

Re-usable consumables on the other hand are a pure joy. Using your repair kit and then getting a damaged engine, ammo rack, gun, et cetera is a needless pain that's finally getting a cure. I wouldn't be concerned that players will now suddenly become more passive. And the reason why is because for every player who waits 60 or 90 seconds for a cooldown to end, there's going to be several more who stay in the fight because their tank isn't crippled by module damage.

 

And the new light tanks, this step was inevitable. Finally light tanks can be balanced in reference to their own tier. And in any case, they'd still be less useful than mediums in the corridor map meta. I wouldn't be afraid of them if I were you. 



addiboy5207 #15 Posted Mar 26 2017 - 23:05

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Tier 10 Lights:
And here is the root of my problem... First off, I only got to drive one Light tank ONCE on the server, and it went how I thought it would go: Either long-range full-camo snipe fest, or two+ Light Tanks rushing down a Heavy tank. I was running the Sheridan, and hit/penned 75% of my shots from the new 105mm, including most of my on-the-move full-speed shots. Whether I was just lucky or whether the on-the-move accuracy is ridiculous, I don't know, but I felt bad for the enemy Type 5 Heavy. At an overall glace, because I couldn't actually drive the rest, the other Tier 10 Lights are more of the same: High Speed, Spotting, and Camo with good guns. Oh, and a question, why the heck does the German Tier 10 have TWO Loaders? Any particular reason behind this? Cause I couldn't find one. Overall, these SCOUTS should be SCOUTS and not Medium Tanks 2.0, like the current server problems.

 

I'd like to point out that scouts will still be scouts. T8 scouts are easily out-scouted and out-played by the t9 and t10 mediums. The t10 LIGHT tanks will have worse gun handling/damage, less armor, and less hp than mediums.

 






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