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General guidance for crew training Tiers III/IV?


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OldFrog75 #21 Posted Mar 17 2017 - 02:43

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View PostCheesehead1964, on Mar 17 2017 - 02:35, said:

Most of the advice I've seen is to never start below 100 percent, but that may be for Tier V and above. If you own premiums you can use them as trainers for other tanks - I use the Churchill III to train my KV1 crew, my Matilda IV to train my T-34 crew, and my PzT25 to train my PzIV. That speeds things up for sure....

 

You are way ahead of me in understanding how that works.  I only have one premium tank but it's in the line I'm pursuing so that's good to know.  Is it "skill/perks" only that transfer or the combat training as well?

1mp0ster #22 Posted Mar 17 2017 - 03:07

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on Mar 16 2017 - 22:56, said:

 

Wait - you're moving one crew between multiple non-premium tanks and paying to retrain them more than once per day?  If I keep a tank it has a fixed crew that only gets moved to premiums. 

 

 

 

 

That is right. For example, I have a 5 skill Russian heavy crew. When I feel like playing my T-10, I retrain them to go onto that. When I feel like playing my KV-2, I retrain them there. As I said before, it only takes AT MOST 10 games to recoup that 10% on the major qualification in a non-premium tank (probably only 6-7 games in a premium tank). So instead of having 2 full crews with 80% on the 3rd skill, one on each tank, I have a single crew with 90% on the 5th skill. Same thing with Russian TDs (OBJ263, OBJ704, SU-152, and SU-76m all sharing same 4 skill crew), American heavies (T-32, T110E5 sharing 4 skill crew), etc.

Edited by 1mp0ster, Mar 17 2017 - 03:13.


Captain_Rownd #23 Posted Mar 17 2017 - 04:04

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OP was asking about Tier 3-4

 



dunniteowl #24 Posted Mar 17 2017 - 04:07

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From here:  Crew Management:

Specifically:

Choices for Training a New Recruit in His Major Qualification

  • Tank Academy - At the cost of 200 Gold, the player's selection of the Tank Academy option will cause the new recruit to immediately obtain a 100% Training Level in his Major Qualification, and thereby automatically unlock and make available the further selection of a first Skill or Perk.
  • Regimental School - At the cost of 20,000 credits, the player's selection of the Regimental School option will cause the new crew member to immediately obtain a 75% Training Level in his Major Qualification. In such case no Skill or Perk selection will become available until the crew member's Training Level in his Major Qualification reaches 100% through experience earned in battle.
  • Rapid Courses - For free, the player's selection of the Rapid Courses option will cause the new recruit to obtain the default of a 50% Training Level in his Major Qualification. In such case no Skill or Perk selection will become available until the crew member's Training Level in his Major Qualification reaches 100% through experience earned in battle.

 

  Before I print more, I would like to point out the highlighted text with colored backgrounds.  I obviously did it to make it stand out.  Reading it I hope the reason for such highlighting becomes apparent without struggle.  The real point is to keep them in mind for the next part.


 

And furthermore in this same vein to consider just a bit further...

Choices for Re-Training a Crew Member for Move to a Different Vehicle

  • Tank Academy - At the cost of 200 Gold, the player's selection of the Tank Academy option will cause the existing crew member to immediately obtain a 100% Training Level in his Major Qualification for the new vehicle. If the crew member has no existing Skills or Perks, then this option will automatically unlock and make available the further selection of a first Skill or Perk. If the crew member has already acquired any Skills or Perks, then each of them will carry over to the new vehicle and immediately become active without any reduction in the same percentage level earned prior to the move.
  • Regimental School - At the cost of 20,000 credits, the player's selection of the Regimental School option will cause the existing crew member toimmediately obtain a new Major Qualification Training Level equivalent to 75%,or to 90% of his former Training Level, whichever is greater; if he is retraining to a new vehicle of the same type. For example, moving from one TD to a different TD. If the move is from a vehicle of one type to another, a TD to SPG, then the Regimental School option retrains him to 75%, or 80% of his former level, whichever is greater. In either such case no new Skill or Perk selection will become available until the crew member's Training Level in his Major Qualification reaches 100% through experience earned in battle.
  • Rapid Courses - For free, the player's selection of the Rapid Courses option will cause the existing crew memberuit to immediately obtain the default Major Qualification Training Level equivalent to 50%, or to 80% of his former Training Level, whichever is greater; if he is retraining to a new vehicle of the same type. For example, moving from one TD to a different TD. If the move is from a vehicle of one type to another, a TD to SPG, then the Regimental School option retrains him to 50%, or 60% of his former level, whichever is greater. In either such case no new Skill or Perk selection will become available until the crew member's Training Level in his Major Qualification reaches 100% through experience earned in battle.
  • Effect on Pre-Existing Skills and Perks- If the crew member has already acquired any Skills or Perks prior to retraining by Rapid Courses or by Regimental School, then each of them will carry over to the new vehicle without any reduction in the same percentage level earned prior to the move. They will remain effective in the new vehicle at their current percentage levels. However, their icons will be greyed out and such Skills and Perks will not resume accumulating additional experience through battle and increasing in effectiveness until such time as the Training Level in the Major Qualification in the new vehicle reaches 100%. Thereafter, such Skills and Perks will all be restored to active, their icon will illuminate, and once again they will start accumulating additional experience through battle.

 

 

Hope any of that makes sense on first read through.  It's not exactly crystal clearly written.  That said, in terms of your training, you might consider keeping your crew and training them up for that 20K gold, even at lower levels, depending on how many battles you're willing to put into your tanks at those tiers.  Going from an LT to an LT from T1 to T3, say, bringing the crew up and re-training them will give your tank a more trained crew for 20K than recruiting a whole new and paying that same 20K per member to get a fresh crew at Regimental.


 

If you can afford to sling gold for retraining, by all means, go that route, but not this early.  If you played a T1 unit and your crew started at 75% and by the time you got a T2 unit and they were at, say 82%, they'd get trained to 75%, because it would be greater than 90% of 82% *(10% of 82% is 8.2.  82 - 8.2 = 73.8%) so the fresh crew would make sense.  If, however, you surpass 85%, then it starts becoming more feasible.  This mostly makes more sense from T2-3, then 4 and 5.  T2 is also when you start diverting tank classes and starting a crew fresh with a new class line is also not a bad idea, due to the increased reduction in skill by training to a new class (from LT, to whatever else becomes available in each line that isn't an LT.)


 

Just some things to consider along with the information to allow you to decide for yourselves which route you think you ought to go based on whatever other variables might affect your crew training and selection during your line grinds.


 

GL, HF & HSYBF!

 



OldFrog75 #25 Posted Mar 17 2017 - 04:14

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View Postdunniteowl, on Mar 17 2017 - 04:07, said:

From here:  Crew Management:

Specifically:

Choices for Training a New Recruit in His Major Qualification

  • Tank Academy - At the cost of 200 Gold, the player's selection of the Tank Academy option will cause the new recruit to immediately obtain a 100% Training Level in his Major Qualification, and thereby automatically unlock and make available the further selection of a first Skill or Perk.
  • Regimental School - At the cost of 20,000 credits, the player's selection of the Regimental School option will cause the new crew member to immediately obtain a 75% Training Level in his Major Qualification. In such case no Skill or Perk selection will become available until the crew member's Training Level in his Major Qualification reaches 100% through experience earned in battle.
  • Rapid Courses - For free, the player's selection of the Rapid Courses option will cause the new recruit to obtain the default of a 50% Training Level in his Major Qualification. In such case no Skill or Perk selection will become available until the crew member's Training Level in his Major Qualification reaches 100% through experience earned in battle.

 

  Before I print more, I would like to point out the highlighted text with colored backgrounds.  I obviously did it to make it stand out.  Reading it I hope the reason for such highlighting becomes apparent without struggle.  The real point is to keep them in mind for the next part.


 

And furthermore in this same vein to consider just a bit further...

Choices for Re-Training a Crew Member for Move to a Different Vehicle

  • Tank Academy - At the cost of 200 Gold, the player's selection of the Tank Academy option will cause the existing crew member to immediately obtain a 100% Training Level in his Major Qualification for the new vehicle. If the crew member has no existing Skills or Perks, then this option will automatically unlock and make available the further selection of a first Skill or Perk. If the crew member has already acquired any Skills or Perks, then each of them will carry over to the new vehicle and immediately become active without any reduction in the same percentage level earned prior to the move.
  • Regimental School - At the cost of 20,000 credits, the player's selection of the Regimental School option will cause the existing crew member toimmediately obtain a new Major Qualification Training Level equivalent to 75%,or to 90% of his former Training Level, whichever is greater; if he is retraining to a new vehicle of the same type. For example, moving from one TD to a different TD. If the move is from a vehicle of one type to another, a TD to SPG, then the Regimental School option retrains him to 75%, or 80% of his former level, whichever is greater. In either such case no new Skill or Perk selection will become available until the crew member's Training Level in his Major Qualification reaches 100% through experience earned in battle.
  • Rapid Courses - For free, the player's selection of the Rapid Courses option will cause the existing crew memberuit to immediately obtain the default Major Qualification Training Level equivalent to 50%, or to 80% of his former Training Level, whichever is greater; if he is retraining to a new vehicle of the same type. For example, moving from one TD to a different TD. If the move is from a vehicle of one type to another, a TD to SPG, then the Regimental School option retrains him to 50%, or 60% of his former level, whichever is greater. In either such case no new Skill or Perk selection will become available until the crew member's Training Level in his Major Qualification reaches 100% through experience earned in battle.
  • Effect on Pre-Existing Skills and Perks- If the crew member has already acquired any Skills or Perks prior to retraining by Rapid Courses or by Regimental School, then each of them will carry over to the new vehicle without any reduction in the same percentage level earned prior to the move. They will remain effective in the new vehicle at their current percentage levels. However, their icons will be greyed out and such Skills and Perks will not resume accumulating additional experience through battle and increasing in effectiveness until such time as the Training Level in the Major Qualification in the new vehicle reaches 100%. Thereafter, such Skills and Perks will all be restored to active, their icon will illuminate, and once again they will start accumulating additional experience through battle.

 

 

Hope any of that makes sense on first read through.  It's not exactly crystal clearly written.  That said, in terms of your training, you might consider keeping your crew and training them up for that 20K gold, even at lower levels, depending on how many battles you're willing to put into your tanks at those tiers.  Going from an LT to an LT from T1 to T3, say, bringing the crew up and re-training them will give your tank a more trained crew for 20K than recruiting a whole new and paying that same 20K per member to get a fresh crew at Regimental.


 

If you can afford to sling gold for retraining, by all means, go that route, but not this early.  If you played a T1 unit and your crew started at 75% and by the time you got a T2 unit and they were at, say 82%, they'd get trained to 75%, because it would be greater than 90% of 82% *(10% of 82% is 8.2.  82 - 8.2 = 73.8%) so the fresh crew would make sense.  If, however, you surpass 85%, then it starts becoming more feasible.  This mostly makes more sense from T2-3, then 4 and 5.  T2 is also when you start diverting tank classes and starting a crew fresh with a new class line is also not a bad idea, due to the increased reduction in skill by training to a new class (from LT, to whatever else becomes available in each line that isn't an LT.)


 

Just some things to consider along with the information to allow you to decide for yourselves which route you think you ought to go based on whatever other variables might affect your crew training and selection during your line grinds.


 

GL, HF & HSYBF!

 

 

Thanks for all of that...:)

Roggg2 #26 Posted Mar 17 2017 - 14:08

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For low-tier tanks, I sometimes run them with untrained crew.  I'm going to play so few games at tier 2 and 3, what do I care if they underperform a bit?  More accurately, what I have done a few times is use the 100% cerw from tier 1 without retraining in the tiers 2 and 3 of the same line to save some credits.  At tier 4 I'll use credits to retrain the tier 1 crew to the tier 4 tank.  Around tier 5 or 6 I start using gold on the commander and silver for the rest.  

 

But yeah, save the gold...it's a waste of grocery money at tiers 2-4.

 



Roggg2 #27 Posted Mar 17 2017 - 14:45

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View Post1mp0ster, on Mar 16 2017 - 21:07, said:

 

That is right. For example, I have a 5 skill Russian heavy crew. When I feel like playing my T-10, I retrain them to go onto that. When I feel like playing my KV-2, I retrain them there. As I said before, it only takes AT MOST 10 games to recoup that 10% on the major qualification in a non-premium tank (probably only 6-7 games in a premium tank). So instead of having 2 full crews with 80% on the 3rd skill, one on each tank, I have a single crew with 90% on the 5th skill. Same thing with Russian TDs (OBJ263, OBJ704, SU-152, and SU-76m all sharing same 4 skill crew), American heavies (T-32, T110E5 sharing 4 skill crew), etc.

 

Your math doesn't check out.  90% - 100% is about 39,000 XP.  To get that in 10 games you would need 3900 per game.  Your recent average from wotlabs is 600.  I'm assuming that's base amount..  Premium account makes it 900.  You need +300% PR to make it, and your mileage will vary.

 

OP averages 150 xp/battle.  Without premium or PR, that's 260 battles.  With premium account that's 173.  Playing only daily wins (with premium account) in the tank, it's 87 if you win every time, but more realistically it's 125 games.  Premium account and +300% reserve it becomes... 900xp/game, or 43 games.  That's the best case scenario for OP unless I missed something in my accounting.

 

But STILL, I dont think it's worth the gold.  Good players, or even average players will have little trouble covering that ten percent.  New players or... um.. less efficient players, may need dozens or hundreds of games to cover it.  What that time is worth, is a personal decision.  

 



NK_33 #28 Posted Mar 17 2017 - 14:49

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Don't forget that you can run your crews in tanks of the same type, as. 75% crew, and at reduced Xp awards, but the daily double makes up for it.  So you can retrain a T4 German medium crew, put them in your elited T3 medium as an ersatz premium.  Lets you grind faster than just running your tier 4 over and over again.

WangOnTheLoose #29 Posted Mar 17 2017 - 15:02

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View Post1mp0ster, on Mar 15 2017 - 23:03, said:

It has been sad a lot already, but do not waste gold on crews below tier 5. Those tiers go so fast that you will not get any significant amount of experience before needing to retrain to a new tank, which means using more credits to bring it back down below 75%. Because of this, just dismiss those crewmen when you sell the old tank and buy a new crew for the new tank. Tier 6 is where you want to start carrying crews along for the rest of the line.

 

That being said, NEVER EVER EVER EVER buy crews for gold, or retrain them to new tanks for gold. The only time you want to think about using gold on crews is if they have 3+ skills and you want to reset the skills on them.

 

I think that is a little ridiculous, its like $1 to retrain a crew and it saves you a lot of time, which to me is a lot more important than a couple of bucks a month.

Patonb #30 Posted Mar 17 2017 - 15:05

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View Post1mp0ster, on Mar 16 2017 - 00:27, said:

 

Because I keep my favorite tanks in a line, I have many tanks among them. I retrain crews between tanks multiple times per day. It would get very expensive very fast if I did it with gold.

 

Retraining crews with credits takes a 90% exp hit. That should AT MOST take 10 games to get back to 100%.

 

Explains a lot......... If they're your favorite tanks put dedicate crews in them.

You're not getting them back to 100% in 10 games.



1mp0ster #31 Posted Mar 17 2017 - 18:39

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View PostPatonb, on Mar 17 2017 - 15:05, said:

 

Explains a lot......... If they're your favorite tanks put dedicate crews in them.

You're not getting them back to 100% in 10 games.

 

What you choose to believe is your business. I would rather go by my playing experience. I also 100% stand by the way I use crews. It is stupid to have multiple crews of the same class and nation. Instead of having a 3 skill crew on two different tanks, why not just have a 5 skill crew that you move around whenever you want? Sure, it means that you cannot play the OBJ140 and T-62a back to back, but is it really that important to? Just play something else in the rotation instead.



WangOnTheLoose #32 Posted Mar 17 2017 - 18:59

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View Post1mp0ster, on Mar 17 2017 - 12:39, said:

 

What you choose to believe is your business. I would rather go by my playing experience. I also 100% stand by the way I use crews. It is stupid to have multiple crews of the same class and nation. Instead of having a 3 skill crew on two different tanks, why not just have a 5 skill crew that you move around whenever you want? Sure, it means that you cannot play the OBJ140 and T-62a back to back, but is it really that important to? Just play something else in the rotation instead.

 

How often do you switch them?

 

And your math is off if you think you are going from 90%-100% in ten battles.  You might be able to do that if you win every game you play and you are burning a 200% crew experience booster on a x2 crew experience weekend.

 

Besides, that 40k experience starts to add up and you could actually have 2 4 skill crews in place of your 5 skill crew depending on how often you do it and where you are in your fifth skill.


Edited by WangOnTheLoose, Mar 17 2017 - 19:02.


Patonb #33 Posted Mar 17 2017 - 19:09

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View PostWangOnTheLoose, on Mar 17 2017 - 12:59, said:

 

How often do you switch them?

 

And your math is off if you think you are going from 90%-100% in ten battles.  You might be able to do that if you win every game you play and you are burning a 200% crew experience booster on a x2 crew experience weekend.

 

Besides, that 40k experience starts to add up and you could actually have 2 4 skill crews in place of your 5 skill crew depending on how often you do it and where you are in your fifth skill.

 

Don't even bother reasoning. It's not possible since his feelings are more concrete then his math.

1mp0ster #34 Posted Mar 17 2017 - 20:05

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View PostRoggg2, on Mar 17 2017 - 14:45, said:

 

Your math doesn't check out.  90% - 100% is about 39,000 XP.  To get that in 10 games you would need 3900 per game.  Your recent average from wotlabs is 600.  I'm assuming that's base amount..  Premium account makes it 900.  You need +300% PR to make it, and your mileage will vary.

 

OP averages 150 xp/battle.  Without premium or PR, that's 260 battles.  With premium account that's 173.  Playing only daily wins (with premium account) in the tank, it's 87 if you win every time, but more realistically it's 125 games.  Premium account and +300% reserve it becomes... 900xp/game, or 43 games.  That's the best case scenario for OP unless I missed something in my accounting.

 

But STILL, I dont think it's worth the gold.  Good players, or even average players will have little trouble covering that ten percent.  New players or... um.. less efficient players, may need dozens or hundreds of games to cover it.  What that time is worth, is a personal decision.  

 

 

I am not sure what your math says. I just now retrained a crew and kept track. I retrained 5 crew members from my T28 Prot to my T30 with credits, bringing them all down to 90% major qualification. Notice that I am not using any personal reserves, I have a premium account, and the tank is Elited. Screenshots of the tank performance and the commander after each battle are below the summary.

Battle1: 1136 base exp received, 1704 with my premium account, 3408 total exp with x2 for first victory of the day brought the Commander and gunner to 98%, Driver and Radioman to 97, and Loader to 96 (6th crewman already training on T30 at 100%)

Battle2: We got rolfstompted and I made a noob mistake. 467 exp after 311 base was second best on team. Brought Commander to 99%, Gunner to 98, Driver and Radio to 97, loader to 96

Battle3: I lagged out after 1 shot. 779 exp brought Commander and Gunner to 99%, Drive to 98, Radio and Loader to 97.

Battle4:

 


Edited by 1mp0ster, Mar 17 2017 - 20:10.


Patonb #35 Posted Mar 17 2017 - 20:31

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So your last screen shows you're wrong. Plus you know it's a 3x crew xp weekend, correct?


 

You needed 4400xp for 99-100% and you only got a 550ave between your 2 games... That shows you need 8 plus games to do the last 1%. Yes the 98-99 is less, but total is well over 10 you proclaimed.



1mp0ster #36 Posted Mar 17 2017 - 20:46

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View PostPatonb, on Mar 17 2017 - 20:31, said:

So your last screen shows you're wrong. Plus you know it's a 3x crew xp weekend, correct?


 

You needed 4400xp for 99-100% and you only got a 550ave between your 2 games... That shows you need 8 plus games to do the last 1%. Yes the 98-99 is less, but total is well over 10 you proclaimed.

 

Screw it, I am not going to bother with people like you. Sorry that your feelings are more important than facts. Fact of the matter is that you are wrong. It takes around 10 battles to get from 90% to 100%, and this is in a non-premium tank. Had I been doing this with my Russian TD crew in my SU-122-44 they would have all been back to 100% after 3-4 battles. You wouldn't know this because you just have a dedicated crew for each one of your tanks. As someone who retrains crews across tanks daily, I think I know much better than you the exact experience of doing it.

Edited by 1mp0ster, Mar 17 2017 - 20:48.


WeSayNotToday #37 Posted Mar 19 2017 - 07:59

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View PostOldFrog75, on Mar 15 2017 - 19:28, said:

Is it better to pay up for 100% crew training or opt for 75% and slug it out for the other 25%?  I assume in the upper Tiers Combat XP accumulates much faster than in the lower Tiers where at my rate could take awhile judging by the slow grind to get the skills trained up to 100%.

 

The answer to this is to use your tier 1 crews without retraining in your tier 2 and tier 3 tanks, if they are the same class of tank.  Most are light tanks, choose camo, repair, smooth ride or snapshot for your various crew members.

 

In the same class of tank, your crew members lose 25% effectiveness in their major qualification [gunner, etc], but will still build the skill you have chosen [like camo], at half rate.  However, a 75% crew member is OK for play.  When you get to tier 4, yes, you can use gold to change to that tier 4 tank, because you should have built up some skills on any of your tier 1 tank guys.  These tier 1 guys are valuable.  You can also retrain them with silver at this point, because play is starting to get more serious, and the credit retraining to a tank for 90% in the major qualification, that will get better, is noticeably better than 75% that will not improve.  Credit retrained crew can still use the skills they have accumulated.

 

Specifically, your Russian MS1 tank commander and driver which you get at 100% for the MS1, will work at 75 % [which is pretty good] in the tier 2 and tier 3 Russian light tanks without retraining AT ALL.  They will also build the skills that you chose, but at a slower rate than someone trained for that tier 2 or tier 3 light tank.  In other words, they are as good  as 'credit-trained' crewmen but build their skills.  If you have chosen 'camo' as their skill, camo will slowly get better, but the 75% will remain.

 

Tier 2 and tier 3 tanks have reasonably easy play and the experience/ research time is short, so 75% guys are fine.


Edited by WeSayNotToday, Mar 19 2017 - 08:32.


WeSayNotToday #38 Posted Mar 19 2017 - 08:04

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View PostOldFrog75, on Mar 16 2017 - 03:00, said:

 

According to WoT, it takes 24,157 combat XP to move the crew from 75% to 100%.  Might not take that long in Tier V-X but in Tier III that would probably take somewhere between 50-100 battles (assuming you're relatively new and not one of the experts slumming it).  Since the crew at 75% is not performing optimally, are the tank characteristics (firepower, survivability, etc.) degraded by 25%?

 

Pretty sure it's 72,500 exp to go from 75% to 100%.

 

Yes, crew-related tank functions are penalized, but not terribly for tier 2 or 3.



WeSayNotToday #39 Posted Mar 19 2017 - 08:12

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View Post1mp0ster, on Mar 16 2017 - 06:27, said:

 

Because I keep my favorite tanks in a line, I have many tanks among them. I retrain crews between tanks multiple times per day. It would get very expensive very fast if I did it with gold.

 

Retraining crews with credits takes a 90% exp hit. That should AT MOST take 10 games to get back to 100%.

 

This is not accurate.  It takes about 40,000 exp to go from 90 to 100%.  Look at your average experience per battle to get an idea of how long this will take. WoT has weekend specials frequently that award more experience, and has experience boosters that can be purchased or earned, and your first win everyday gives a x2 bonus to exp, .  These all can help quite a bit.

 

"At most 10 games" is at expert level of play at higher tiers, and/or with expert use of WoT bonuses available, since it means a minimum of 4000 exp earned each and every battle.


Edited by WeSayNotToday, Mar 19 2017 - 08:22.


WeSayNotToday #40 Posted Mar 19 2017 - 08:22

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Spoiler

 

You are not showing everything.  For instance, you are not showing us a 90% commander with battle count.  Then, you are not showing the almost 30,000 exp it takes to get a crewman from 90 to 98%, with battle counts shown.

Edited by WeSayNotToday, Mar 19 2017 - 08:35.





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