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The Death of Arty - is everyone happy now?


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hge_1 #321 Posted May 07 2017 - 20:28

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View PostGasai__Yuno, on Mar 16 2017 - 20:14, said:

 

What is the TRUTH is not an INSULT.

SEE the difference, my friend.

 

 

 

 

You know, if I wanted to kill myself, I think I would climb up your ego and jump down to your IQ level.

Wrath_Of_Conn #322 Posted May 08 2017 - 03:05

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View Posthge_1, on May 07 2017 - 13:28, said:

 

You know, if I wanted to kill myself, I think I would climb up your ego and jump down to your IQ level.

 

Try not stumble on your ignorance.  Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa................................

t42592 #323 Posted May 15 2017 - 08:02

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View PostWrath_Of_Conn, on Mar 16 2017 - 11:04, said:

Hello,

I have applied to the Sandbox as a tester. I am an all arty player and I am an above average player (WN8 1086, 20K games Recent WN8 of 1460). I want to be part of this development as it stands a very great probably to effect my entire gaming experience. I have watched the YouTube video that your developer's have commented on these reclassification of arty. I have clan members in the sandbox and received their feedback on the redevelopment of the arty functions. I am concerned that not enough arty players are in the sandbox. My concerns are in order of importance:

1) As arty I will no longer be able to defend myself at the end of games. When lights particularly arty hunt. With the reduction in alpha and this stun mechanism, arty will not be able to kill anything that is coming in on it. NOT a great gaming experience.

2) At tiers 8-10 arty currently does have a place in clan wars. With this redevelopment of our capabilities, there is no reason for a clan to bring a tank that already has smaill HP life when the tanks Alpha is reduced. I have talked a with top 100 clan (Triad) and many lowered ranked clans (my own clan is ranked 432), and strategically and tactically there is not any perceived benefit to bringing this "new" arty to clan wars. NOT a great gaming experience.

3) Counter battery is obsolete. There is not any point in stunning opposing arty. One of the key roles arty plays is counter battery. Removing enemy arty is one of my primary roles as it allows my team to be more offensive. The reduction of the alpha means I can not kill an arty with one shot (thinking of the T10 Bat Chat arty) and stunning is a moot point because my forces are too far away at the beginning of the game to take advange of the stun. NOT a great gaming experience.

4) I have spent approximately $2000.00 USD over the past two years for gold and premiuim accounts for my husband's account.(Green_Griffin WN8 1189 clan TRIAD) gifts to clan members for good performance, and my own account. I invest in this game.  I am being made ineffective by these changes and can not add any value to the games I enjoy, clan wars, advances, detach. These changes I believe are meant to pacify the public matches. Your developer's state that this is a means of having pub teams include arty more in their strategy and game play. You are not in touch with your game. Pub's do not form platoons very often. Most platoons come as platoons from the MM. Pub matches aren't very strategic. It is more a straight up tactical battle with tanks (hopefully) going to positions that best suit their particular tank. Again, this will NOT promote arty inclusion to public play. NOT a great gaming experience.

5) The arrogance of the developer's in your You Tube video was just staggering. Yes, they know how much arty is hated. Yes, they are going to deal with arty mechanics to pacify everyone. This may not be a direct quote but the staggering arrogance of a company to address a class many of us love and have invested in is appalling. So you understand, I can only one shot a full health heavy if they are at least one tier down from me, usually two tiers. I have to run a premium shell with splash to do it as well. These heavies are usually sitting still in the open, ie, they dont play their tank well. I do admit that on rare occassion I have one shot a light on the run, but, I truly believe that has more to do with 4 perks skills on my crew, good rng, and some level of skill on my part than as the single attribute of the tank class I am in.

6) I do not know if I will get the standard reply from you on this ticket (Thank you we will investigate) or if you will get me in the Sandbox where I can legitimately provide my feedback to your developers) I can not just sit and wait for my game mechanics (Arty) to so drastically change, without trying to be part of their development.

7) With these changes I can pretty much forget about getting a Top Gun, High Caliber, Bombardier, Radley Walters, or Kolobanov's medal every again. (Yes, I have all of them).

Sincerely

Wrath_of_Conn
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4/11/17 Note

We will no longer get to play with clan members.  This is insane.  It is a social game and now I will not be able to toon with my friends, clan members.  WG should have just taken arty out of the game.  This is just arty being sh!& on by wargaming. - Wrath

 

"No artillery in Platoons. You were vocal about mismatched scenarios, when a Platoon of three SPGs was placed at the top of the list and the team ended up with three long-range support fire vehicles as their main strength. The other frustrating issue was frequent cases of arty giving its all to support fellow Platoon-members and totally neglecting the rest of the team. To eliminate both problems, we decided to stop SPGs from forming and joining Dynamic and regular Platoons. Removing the option to play in Platoons should facilitate team cooperation and aid the matchmaker in creating balanced teams. Individual Battle Missions were updated accordingly. We removed Platoons from their conditions."

https://worldoftanks...nd_common_test/

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  •  

 

My initial comments echoed above.

 

IMO, this single decision by Wargaming will inevitably result in less arty players coming to Frontline, or any map for this matter.  Those of us (I'm a die-hard arty player since WoT birth and beta testing days) will again be discouraged from spending any time (or money) on improving our arty lines.

 

Nice move, Wargaming.



Wrath_Of_Conn #324 Posted May 29 2017 - 21:41

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Open Note to WarGaming:

We are now a couple of months into 9.18.  The net SPG results from my average player account are thus:

  • At mid tiers I can usually make WN8 damage in select tanks at any given tier.  Example: the Grille is the only T5 SPG that              can make its WN8 damage reliably.
  • 70 -80% of the remaining SPG at any tier can not make enough damage to keep the XTE or WN8 numbers.
  • The result is I can only play a very narrow line of SPG or play all  my SPG and watch the very average WN8 (1108)  I have          worked hard to get, evaporate.
  • I do Command a clan and not being about to platoon with my mates means I miss alot of what is going on in my clan.
  • Not being able to platoon also means I am spending less time in the game since I can not be with friends in game.
  • I just spent $9.99 in gold for the first time since 9.18 came out.  I used to spend up to 10 times that in a month.
  • The top 50 clan I Legionnaire with will not run arty at T8 nor T10 any longer as the damage is not enough to offset the low            hit point value of any T8 or T10 SPG.

 

My overall hope is this silly stun goes away and we get some pen back.  Example:  The T2 SU18 has a pen of 21. The T6 FV304 has a pen of 28 (4 tiers diffence and about the same pen, so yes I can say the FV304 has been bastardized).

 

Now my real question is your motivation.  I am beginning to realize that you did not have the backbone to take arty out of the game and this bastardizing of the class is your spineless way to drive SPG to other classes.  You did not realize that a good percentage would leave the game.  I am holding on for my clan, but this is so INCREDIBLY NOT FUN any longer.  Your pursuit of the Barney's has alienated the far larger fan base of average Joe's, Noobs and Virgins who are dropping like flies because this game IS NOT FUN anymore.  Is any one in your contributor community not a Barney or Blueberry?  Odds are NO! Please stop smoking whatever crack you have had access to and rebalance the game for all classes. not just the tanks the Barney's and Wallet Warriors want to make reality.

 

 

 


Edited by Wrath_Of_Conn, May 29 2017 - 21:57.


Sgt_Moriarty #325 Posted May 30 2017 - 00:54

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I like playing arty...but after 9.18 I sold all but one, my little M37. Still fun, and I don't take it too seriously.

 

Now...while we all hate getting one-shot by a 155mm round to our happy little cartoon tanks...blanket statements that artillery fire cannot kill a tank are simply not true, at least not in reality. It's been documented as far back as Kasserine Pass, and continues to draw the attention of actual, real-life, tank-driving, artillery shooting armies around the world...

 

Here's a link...take some time and read it... This is the NATO AEP-55, based off NATO STANAG 4569... this is the real stuff.
 

http://www.unops.org...e.aspx/aep-55(2)vol1.pdf?AttachmentID=d8cf9e42-0d67-4388-8da6-d8cf73697ba7

 

If don't have the time or intellect to absorb AEP-55, then a quote by Abe Gubler (a highly respected defense analyst) sums it up pretty well based on STANAG 4569 data...
 

Block Quote

On the effectiveness of artillery splinter against tanks there is no need for estimates. It is a NATO standard. In particular STANAG 4569:

155mm HE splinters (aka fragments) at 25m have the same penetration effectiveness as a 25mm APDS at 500m (Level 5) and a 155mm HE at 30m is the same as a 14.5mm AP at 200m (Level IV).

While the frontal armour of most tanks will withstand 155mm HE splinters from a blast within 20m the side and rear armour won’t. Artillery shells falling from indirect fire are more likely to hit tanks with splinters from the sides and rear than the front. If the concentration of fire is dense enough to ensure blasts within 20-30m of tanks then those tanks are going to suffer some significant internal damage and be knocked out.

It is also worth noting that STANAG 4569 is based on 152mm and 155mm HE shells with less energetic explosives and mild steel casings. There are HE shells with preformed fragments and high hardness steels and higher energy explosives that produce much more lethal splinters (smaller and faster) and fragments than those used in the STANAG testing. They will penetrate equivalent armour and much longer distances than the STANAG 4569 basis.

 

If you still don't believe me...here's a link to every arty-haters worst nightmare...a magazine on ARTY... in it, you'll find a very informative article on killing armor with dumb rounds...again...some very good reading... What's particularly interesting are the photos at the end of the article, especially the one showing a direct hit to what appears to be the remains of a M48 by an HE shell with Point Detonation Fuzing (boom on impact).

 

http://sill-www.army.mil/firesbulletin/archives/2002/NOV_DEC_2002/NOV_DEC_2002_FULL_EDITION.pdf

 

 



OrnmiIler #326 Posted May 30 2017 - 07:15

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Dear WoT:

The new 9.18 type dynamic should have been an additional mode, and/or different option with credit and statistical handicaps for the minority whiner/ranter in game play, not as a total replacement of 9.17’s traditional dynamic continuity (TRC) for majority player base.

The years leading up to 9.17 former pinnacle of TRC, players like myself took the position that monthly game support, through $ solidarity was a symbiotic function, thus appropriate, conscientious, and appreciated behavior from/toward $ dependent WoT employees in light of high quality thought behind continuous necessary in game technical maintenance and development.

There was some impression of a mutual feeling of commitment and/or indebtedness somewhat on both sides, in recognition that WoT and its player $ supports were in parallel toward the long term far off horizon.

That principle of player/supporter $ concern for WoT, employees, and their families unfortunately abruptly ended with the shock and awe 9.18 type WoT betrayal of 9.17 TRC versus majority of player base.



stalkervision #327 Posted May 30 2017 - 13:26

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View PostSgt_Moriarty, on May 29 2017 - 18:54, said:

I like playing arty...but after 9.18 I sold all but one, my little M37. Still fun, and I don't take it too seriously.

 

Now...while we all hate getting one-shot by a 155mm round to our happy little cartoon tanks...blanket statements that artillery fire cannot kill a tank are simply not true, at least not in reality. It's been documented as far back as Kasserine Pass, and continues to draw the attention of actual, real-life, tank-driving, artillery shooting armies around the world...

 

Here's a link...take some time and read it... This is the NATO AEP-55, based off NATO STANAG 4569... this is the real stuff.
 

http://www.unops.org...e.aspx/aep-55(2)vol1.pdf?AttachmentID=d8cf9e42-0d67-4388-8da6-d8cf73697ba7

 

If don't have the time or intellect to absorb AEP-55, then a quote by Abe Gubler (a highly respected defense analyst) sums it up pretty well based on STANAG 4569 data...
 

 

If you still don't believe me...here's a link to every arty-haters worst nightmare...a magazine on ARTY... in it, you'll find a very informative article on killing armor with dumb rounds...again...some very good reading... What's particularly interesting are the photos at the end of the article, especially the one showing a direct hit to what appears to be the remains of a M48 by an HE shell with Point Detonation Fuzing (boom on impact).

 

http://sill-www.army.mil/firesbulletin/archives/2002/NOV_DEC_2002/NOV_DEC_2002_FULL_EDITION.pdf

 

 

 

thanks for posting these tests. They show conclusively that even indirect hits can be lethal to tanks unlike what many people here keep repeating to justify their personal hatred on how far arty should be nerfed.

SmirkingGerbil #328 Posted May 30 2017 - 13:50

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View Poststalkervision, on May 30 2017 - 06:26, said:

 

thanks for posting these tests. They show conclusively that even indirect hits can be lethal to tanks unlike what many people here keep repeating to justify their personal hatred on how far arty should be nerfed.

 


Anyone with half a brain understands what real artillery can do, but this is not a simulator. In fact, it has veered so hard into the Arcade realm that arty has basically been rendered into a totally make believe stun spamming artifact. WoT really has ceased to have any similarities to a tank game. If is full on Arcade, make believe, CoD mode now.



Sturm_Pioniere #329 Posted May 30 2017 - 13:58

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A note for all the Arty-haters out there.

 

Replace the Word "Artillery" with "Auto-Loader".  Gee - ya think there's a reason all the unicums play auto-loaders, a LOT?

 

The auto-loader along side you, dumps his clip and then runs away to reload, leaving you alone and now meat for, "gasp" the enemy auto loader. So this argument can just as easily support a "Ruins the game" comment.  

Does this make me an auto-loader hater? (Gasp!!! - Blasphemy!!)  I deal with it by choosing to keep my distance from my friendly-team auto-loaders as I know they will not help me when it comes time for them to reload, and we all know what happens to isolated tanks. 

 

Arty won't go away and here's why,  WG/WoT doesn't dare delete over 100 vehicles in the game.  The loss of those vehicles alone will reduce gold usage for free XP tree research, crew training, crew moving, etc. = less $$ income for WG/WoT.    And this doesn't even count the loss of players that will dump the game when 10+ of their tanks disappear.  

 

That said, WG-WoT -- you are well on your way to that end as Arty has more issues now than before. (see the above EXCELLENT issues summary done by "Wrath of Conn".)  How much more motivation do some of us need to make that jump to another game?  (e.g. WT) - you are on your way to finding out.

 



stalkervision #330 Posted May 30 2017 - 14:40

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View PostSmirkingGerbil, on May 30 2017 - 07:50, said:

 


Anyone with half a brain understands what real artillery can do, but this is not a simulator. In fact, it has veered so hard into the Arcade realm that arty has basically been rendered into a totally make believe stun spamming artifact. WoT really has ceased to have any similarities to a tank game. If is full on Arcade, make believe, CoD mode now.

 

Strawman argument about it not being a simulator. Never said it ever was. What I was pointing out was that many people used flawed logic to justify arty nerfs. 

 

I agree whole heartily about the rest of your statement though. i myself would like to see a bit more realism in the game but this will probably never happen.



stalkervision #331 Posted May 30 2017 - 14:43

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View PostSturm_Pioniere, on May 30 2017 - 07:58, said:

A note for all the Arty-haters out there.

 

Replace the Word "Artillery" with "Auto-Loader".  Gee - ya think there's a reason all the unicums play auto-loaders, a LOT?

 

The auto-loader along side you, dumps his clip and then runs away to reload, leaving you alone and now meat for, "gasp" the enemy auto loader. So this argument can just as easily support a "Ruins the game" comment.  

Does this make me an auto-loader hater? (Gasp!!! - Blasphemy!!)  I deal with it by choosing to keep my distance from my friendly-team auto-loaders as I know they will not help me when it comes time for them to reload, and we all know what happens to isolated tanks. 

 

Arty won't go away and here's why,  WG/WoT doesn't dare delete over 100 vehicles in the game.  The loss of those vehicles alone will reduce gold usage for free XP tree research, crew training, crew moving, etc. = less $$ income for WG/WoT.    And this doesn't even count the loss of players that will dump the game when 10+ of their tanks disappear.  

 

That said, WG-WoT -- you are well on your way to that end as Arty has more issues now than before. (see the above EXCELLENT issues summary done by "Wrath of Conn".)  How much more motivation do some of us need to make that jump to another game?  (e.g. WT) - you are on your way to finding out.

 

 

excellent argument

_GeorgePreddy #332 Posted May 30 2017 - 15:27

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View PostWrath_Of_Conn, on May 29 2017 - 21:41, said:

Open Note to WarGaming:

We are now a couple of months into 9.18.  The net SPG results from my average player account are thus:

  • At mid tiers I can usually make WN8 damage in select tanks at any given tier.  Example: the Grille is the only T5 SPG that              can make its WN8 damage reliably.
  • 70 -80% of the remaining SPG at any tier can not make enough damage to keep the XTE or WN8 numbers.
  • The result is I can only play a very narrow line of SPG or play all  my SPG and watch the very average WN8 (1108)  I have          worked hard to get, evaporate.
  • I do Command a clan and not being about to platoon with my mates means I miss alot of what is going on in my clan.
  • Not being able to platoon also means I am spending less time in the game since I can not be with friends in game.
  • I just spent $9.99 in gold for the first time since 9.18 came out.  I used to spend up to 10 times that in a month.
  • The top 50 clan I Legionnaire with will not run arty at T8 nor T10 any longer as the damage is not enough to offset the low            hit point value of any T8 or T10 SPG.

 

My overall hope is this silly stun goes away and we get some pen back.  Example:  The T2 SU18 has a pen of 21. The T6 FV304 has a pen of 28 (4 tiers diffence and about the same pen, so yes I can say the FV304 has been bastardized).

 

Now my real question is your motivation.  I am beginning to realize that you did not have the backbone to take arty out of the game and this bastardizing of the class is your spineless way to drive SPG to other classes.  You did not realize that a good percentage would leave the game.  I am holding on for my clan, but this is so INCREDIBLY NOT FUN any longer.  Your pursuit of the Barney's has alienated the far larger fan base of average Joe's, Noobs and Virgins who are dropping like flies because this game IS NOT FUN anymore.  Is any one in your contributor community not a Barney or Blueberry?  Odds are NO! Please stop smoking whatever crack you have had access to and rebalance the game for all classes. not just the tanks the Barney's and Wallet Warriors want to make reality.

 

 

 

 

I really enjoyed reading these comments.

 

It appears that the result WG was trying to achieve has actually happened, playing arty is "less comfortable", therefore players will play more real tanks and less arty... or, will leave.

 

Either way, gameplay will improve for the majority. Awesome.



stalkervision #333 Posted May 30 2017 - 15:52

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View Post_GeorgePreddy, on May 30 2017 - 09:27, said:

 

I really enjoyed reading these comments.

 

It appears that the result WG was trying to achieve has actually happened, playing arty is "less comfortable", therefore players will play more real tanks and less arty... or, will leave.

 

Either way, gameplay will improve for the majority. Awesome.

 

No doubt this will happen to other classes of vehicles in the game once arty can't be used as a excuse for poor play anymore. Grand.

stalkervision #334 Posted May 30 2017 - 15:58

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ANOTHER MYTH ABOUT ARTY. ARTY IS THE ONLY CLASS OF VEHICLE THAT HAS A OVERHEAD GOD'S EYE VIEW.

 

ACTUALLY MANY TOTALLY LEGAL MOODS CAN GIVE ONE THE SAME THING.
 



CanOfTomatoes #335 Posted May 30 2017 - 17:46

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What Mr Conn doesn't understand because its beyond his ability is that the planned removal of arty was underway with the patch...make it less effective. in damage...make it less easy to play in terms of solo stats...make it a team support piece...we all know the entitled mass of players in this game do not give a damn about the team and it will slowly play its way out of the game...I said that multiple times back when i was in Sand Box...its not a great mystery as to what is happening. It also solves the problem for WG by not having to compensate any of the time players spend grinding out arty like an outright removal would...simple easy way of ridding the game of it and getting it off their plate of things to deal with. Deal with it its happening. So far as platooning goes hold your buddies hand more its SO much more a bonding method...

Edited by CanOfTomatoes, May 30 2017 - 17:49.


stalkervision #336 Posted May 30 2017 - 20:10

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Actually your personal opinion is just that.  The nerfing of arty was a compromise solution for both parties.,not any hidden trick. Arty will eventually be adjusted to give arty players more damage imo. The substantial buffing of many heavy tanks beyond all reason makes this imperative. 

 



Wrath_Of_Conn #337 Posted May 30 2017 - 23:09

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View Post_GeorgePreddy, on May 30 2017 - 08:27, said:

 

I really enjoyed reading these comments.

 

It appears that the result WG was trying to achieve has actually happened, playing arty is "less comfortable", therefore players will play more real tanks and less arty... or, will leave.

 

Either way, gameplay will improve for the majority. Awesome.

 

Mmmm..... 20 games played... You MUST be the authority here....

Wrath_Of_Conn #338 Posted May 30 2017 - 23:19

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View PostCanOfTomatoes, on May 30 2017 - 10:46, said:

What Mr Conn doesn't understand because its beyond his ability is that the planned removal of arty was underway with the patch...make it less effective. in damage...make it less easy to play in terms of solo stats...make it a team support piece...we all know the entitled mass of players in this game do not give a damn about the team and it will slowly play its way out of the game...I said that multiple times back when i was in Sand Box...its not a great mystery as to what is happening. It also solves the problem for WG by not having to compensate any of the time players spend grinding out arty like an outright removal would...simple easy way of ridding the game of it and getting it off their plate of things to deal with. Deal with it its happening. So far as platooning goes hold your buddies hand more its SO much more a bonding method...

 

Its Ms. Conn.  I don't hold hand or sing Kumbaya..  I direct a team of men in battle in this silly game.  My points are posted to keep this in front of WG.  It is bad development and I will continue to update these posts as long as I can stomach this game.  If no one fights for the beliefs they know are right, we are all lost.  Now, that being said.... this is only a game and at some point I have to do what is right by my clan.  The point with not being able to platoon is a leadership issue and I will have to pass that leadership on soon.  WG has made the tanks I have ground out useless and taken the ability to effectively Command away.  So, in your own metaphor, I have been bonded, sentenced, jailed.... and looking for the bail.

Edited by Wrath_Of_Conn, May 30 2017 - 23:34.


Wrath_Of_Conn #339 Posted May 30 2017 - 23:24

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View Poststalkervision, on May 30 2017 - 13:10, said:

Actually your personal opinion is just that.  The nerfing of arty was a compromise solution for both parties.,not any hidden trick. Arty will eventually be adjusted to give arty players more damage imo. The substantial buffing of many heavy tanks beyond all reason makes this imperative. 

 

 

I can only hope your are right.  SPG is just about the only reliable class to deal with a Maus, Type 5 etc.  I am beginning to believe that WG will not wake up from this  stupor they have achieved.  More and more, I am waking up to development that placates the Barney's and the toxic attitude's that many Barney's spread throughout the game.  When I leave it will be irrelevant (as it should be), as WG's current development path leaves the Average Joe, Noob and Virgin in the dust.

Wrath_Of_Conn #340 Posted May 30 2017 - 23:27

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View PostSturm_Pioniere, on May 30 2017 - 06:58, said:

A note for all the Arty-haters out there.

 

Replace the Word "Artillery" with "Auto-Loader".  Gee - ya think there's a reason all the unicums play auto-loaders, a LOT?

 

The auto-loader along side you, dumps his clip and then runs away to reload, leaving you alone and now meat for, "gasp" the enemy auto loader. So this argument can just as easily support a "Ruins the game" comment.  

Does this make me an auto-loader hater? (Gasp!!! - Blasphemy!!)  I deal with it by choosing to keep my distance from my friendly-team auto-loaders as I know they will not help me when it comes time for them to reload, and we all know what happens to isolated tanks. 

 

Arty won't go away and here's why,  WG/WoT doesn't dare delete over 100 vehicles in the game.  The loss of those vehicles alone will reduce gold usage for free XP tree research, crew training, crew moving, etc. = less $$ income for WG/WoT.    And this doesn't even count the loss of players that will dump the game when 10+ of their tanks disappear.  

 

That said, WG-WoT -- you are well on your way to that end as Arty has more issues now than before. (see the above EXCELLENT issues summary done by "Wrath of Conn".)  How much more motivation do some of us need to make that jump to another game?  (e.g. WT) - you are on your way to finding out.

 

 

Thank You for the support....




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