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pay to win... fallacy


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frumpylumps #141 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 19:10

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View Postdiesel__1, on Mar 20 2017 - 17:26, said:

 

That's called pay to advance........

 

You still need skill to win games.  I'm a prime example.  I've spent money , have a couple of premiums......doesn't help my win rate. 

 

Poor diesel.  Feeling lonely, are we?  Is it time to try to get attention by saying silly things and redefining the world as only diesel_1 knows it? :rolleyes:

 

Nobody is saying the game doesn't require some knowledge to play, kid.  You aren't saying anything when you say the game requires skill to play.   You just prove that you can't grasp simple concepts.   The obvious point you are missing that money does indeed buy you advantages that will allow you to perform better on the battlefield.  Never having to use inferior ammo and starting crews off at 100% as well as free xp past stock modules and starting crews off with perks are huge advantages that contribute to more wins.  The paying player wins more because of the advantages they have paid for.  That is called pay2win, not pay to advance.  The game has both pay2win elements AND elements that allow you to advance faster than non paying players.  Its not the black and white, either or scenario that you somehow imagine.

 

The concept is so simple that someone would probably think you were trolling when you pretend you still don't get what "pay2win" means, but after you spammed me with friend invites for a month in a hilariously desperate attempt to annoy me, I can believe that you STILL can't grasp it   :D

You must fall victim to a lot of scams.  It must suck. :B


Edited by frumpylumps, Mar 20 2017 - 20:06.


diesel__1 #142 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 19:19

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View Postfrumpylumps, on Mar 20 2017 - 11:10, said:

 

 The paying player wins more because of the advantages they have paid for. 

 

Prove it.

__Pure__ #143 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 19:48

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View Postawildseaking, on Mar 20 2017 - 14:12, said:

You do know that invoking fallacies as an argument is a fallacy, right? One argument being flawed does not make another argument strong.

 

Gold, equipment, premium consumables, and stock grinds are P2W because new players can't afford them while subsequently advancing through trees. You call us lazy, but in reality we have to play thousands of matches to catch up to everyone else. You don't need to grind to use gold when you have already played 40,000 matches. You do when you just got your first T7 because they're so expensive that you're researching them faster than you can buy them. It's called power creep.

 

​so basically what your trying to say is that every new player should be given x-amount of gold, sliver,and premium items to make it fair because since new players don't have theses things and everyone with x-amounts of battles dose its p2w.



silic0nes0ul #144 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 20:28

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View PostI_poltroon_I, on Mar 17 2017 - 12:30, said:

Worse and more pointedly premium tanks are available for free, further eroding an already ridiculous argument. Free does not equal easy, nobody said it would.

 

 

On that note I would like to see a clear distinction made by WG.

If a tank can be purchased with $ it should be available for purchase with Gold. (I can buy it or earn it in tournaments. That would be my choice.)

Rare and special premiums should be only achieved in tournaments and missions given equally to everybody.

Ex: I Cannot get a 'Defender' unless i spend cash on it.



SpitYoYoMafia #145 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 21:06

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View Postdiesel__1, on Mar 20 2017 - 08:22, said:

 

Did you win that game?  

 

Yea look at my T6 premium swede medium tank and be the judge. I only fired AP at T5 snd T4 tanks. Did the same in my T69, AMX 50 100, T54E4, etc.

SpitYoYoMafia #146 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 21:17

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View Postpure_invader, on Mar 20 2017 - 10:48, said:

 

​so basically what your trying to say is that every new player should be given x-amount of gold, sliver,and premium items to make it fair because since new players don't have theses things and everyone with x-amounts of battles dose its p2w.

 

Even tho I hate League of Legends with a passion even they realized that something needs to be done with a gap that takes years upon years to fill and did things for the newest players of their gdme. That raises player retention rates which is replacing the droves of players that they have lost and are still currently losing.

_FaTaL #147 Posted Mar 21 2017 - 00:05

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View Postfrumpylumps, on Mar 20 2017 - 12:10, said:

 

Poor diesel.  Feeling lonely, are we?  Is it time to try to get attention by saying silly things and redefining the world as only diesel_1 knows it? :rolleyes:

 

Nobody is saying the game doesn't require some knowledge to play, kid.  You aren't saying anything when you say the game requires skill to play.   You just prove that you can't grasp simple concepts.   The obvious point you are missing that money does indeed buy you advantages that will allow you to perform better on the battlefield.  Never having to use inferior ammo and starting crews off at 100% as well as free xp past stock modules and starting crews off with perks are huge advantages that contribute to more wins.  The paying player wins more because of the advantages they have paid for.  That is called pay2win, not pay to advance.  The game has both pay2win elements AND elements that allow you to advance faster than non paying players.  Its not the black and white, either or scenario that you somehow imagine.

 

The concept is so simple that someone would probably think you were trolling when you pretend you still don't get what "pay2win" means, but after you spammed me with friend invites for a month in a hilariously desperate attempt to annoy me, I can believe that you STILL can't grasp it   :D

You must fall victim to a lot of scams.  It must suck. :B

 

Listen here, the original term of pay2win came from farmville from facebook some years ago you actually had to pay real money to advance any further than a certain point, hence the term pay2win.  This game is not pay2win whatsoever, it is pay to advance quicker or pay to have advantages, nothing you pay for guaratees wins at all.  The term pay2win these days in the not so literal terms is something you pay for that gives advantages over someone else that does not.  So the modern term of pay2win is nothing more than just a slang term used by a lot of people in video games that has some sort of payment system for goods.  So in a way both myself and Frumpy are correct except that Frumpy and others are using it as a slang not a literal meaning.

Edited by _FaTaL, Mar 21 2017 - 00:10.


__Pure__ #148 Posted Mar 21 2017 - 03:15

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View PostSpitYoYoMafia, on Mar 20 2017 - 21:17, said:

 

Even tho I hate League of Legends with a passion even they realized that something needs to be done with a gap that takes years upon years to fill and did things for the newest players of their gdme. That raises player retention rates which is replacing the droves of players that they have lost and are still currently losing.

 

What takes years to fill? The only thing might be skill which most players already lack so there are no worries there and not to mention WG has made it stupied easy to get stuff already I'm guessing you would like everything free then. 

frumpylumps #149 Posted Mar 21 2017 - 03:37

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View Post_FaTaL, on Mar 21 2017 - 00:05, said:

 

Listen here, the original term of pay2win came from farmville from facebook...........  This game is not pay2win whatsoever,

 

Everyone laughed in your face when you said this before.  Sorry, but you don't get to re-define pay2win on your terms.  Nobody can possibly take you seriously when you are clearly so delusional.  The rest of the world already understands pay2win is paying for in-game advantages that will contribute to winning at something, such as having better stats, and there are lots of different types of pay2win games.  You talking about some old facebook game being the only case of pay2win is pure nonsense.  Even if you were guaranteed wins by paying, it would cease to be a game.  I'm sure you are just confused though and don't even know what you are talking about.   Pull your head out.

Edited by frumpylumps, Mar 21 2017 - 03:49.


diesel__1 #150 Posted Mar 21 2017 - 03:54

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View Postfrumpylumps, on Mar 20 2017 - 19:37, said:

 

  The rest of the world already understands pay2win is paying for in-game advantages that will contribute to winning at something, such as having better stats,

 

No they don't........................

BigMeatHammer #151 Posted Mar 21 2017 - 03:55

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Searched Premium Shop for the 'Git Gud' package. Said user unable to purchase :ohmy:

diesel__1 #152 Posted Mar 21 2017 - 03:56

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View Postfrumpylumps, on Mar 20 2017 - 19:37, said:

 

  Even if you were guaranteed wins by paying, it would cease to be a game. out.

 

Then there ISN'T any pay to win games then, are there?

SpitYoYoMafia #153 Posted Mar 21 2017 - 04:17

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View Postpure_invader, on Mar 20 2017 - 18:15, said:

 

What takes years to fill? The only thing might be skill which most players already lack so there are no worries there and not to mention WG has made it stupied easy to get stuff already I'm guessing you would like everything free then. 

 

Uh, it takes a lot of effort to unlock higher tiers as credits are a major issue. On top of that they don't have the credits or free xp to not stock grind or spam premium. 

 

If you think it's easy then try making a brand new account and play on it for a week. I did. It's not worth the effort when I've already made millions upon millions of creds and own a lot of stuff. There's a reason why botting exists and why people actually have lives and do things other than gaming.

 

It usually takes me over a week to unlock a T10 after getting the T9 so that's quite a bit of time and that's playing around 3 hours a day.


Edited by SpitYoYoMafia, Mar 21 2017 - 04:17.


_FaTaL #154 Posted Mar 21 2017 - 04:24

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View Postfrumpylumps, on Mar 20 2017 - 20:37, said:

 

Everyone laughed in your face when you said this before.  Sorry, but you don't get to re-define pay2win on your terms.  Nobody can possibly take you seriously when you are clearly so delusional.  The rest of the world already understands pay2win is paying for in-game advantages that will contribute to winning at something, such as having better stats, and there are lots of different types of pay2win games.  You talking about some old facebook game being the only case of pay2win is pure nonsense.  Even if you were guaranteed wins by paying, it would cease to be a game.  I'm sure you are just confused though and don't even know what you are talking about.   Pull your head out.

 

See and there you are denying the truth one more time cause you have such a big head that you can never admit when you are wrong.  I am not re defining anything, and as I said before "the original pay2win game" not the only like once again you are trying to skew peoples words to fit your agenda and make it to seem like you are never wrong.  I am done with you, there is never getting through to someone that has such a big ego that you can never admit wrong doing.  Yes the current meaning, the slang meaning of pay2win is what you are saying, but the original meaning, the literal meaning is exactly what I said above.  Oh and what is even funnier is that my point on you never admitting fault, is when you tried to tk me the other day, and not once here have you said anything about it.  Case and point.

frumpylumps #155 Posted Mar 21 2017 - 04:28

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View Post_FaTaL, on Mar 21 2017 - 04:24, said:

 

See and there you are denying the truth

 

HAH!  Nobody would ever come to someone as clueless as you for the truth.. Only ridiculous pay2win-deniers would ever think that "pay2win" can only mean paying for guaranteed wins, of which no games even exist.

 

Good luck convincing the rest of the world of your delusions and silly personal definitions. :rolleyes:


Edited by frumpylumps, Mar 21 2017 - 04:33.


diesel__1 #156 Posted Mar 21 2017 - 04:37

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View Postfrumpylumps, on Mar 20 2017 - 20:28, said:

 

HAH!  Nobody would ever come to someone as clueless as you for the truth.. Only ridiculous pay2win-deniers would ever think that "pay2win" can only mean paying for guaranteed wins, of which no games even exist.

 

Good luck convincing the rest of the world of your delusions and silly personal definitions. :rolleyes:

 

You're credibility is nullified by the fact that you team kill when you see someone you don't like or you "think" someone is a wallet warrior.  You're just a lowlife troll that is a lot of fun to yank around.  Please stay with us here on the forums........you're comic relieve.  Only thing I can think of positively about you.

 



omgtankswtfbbq #157 Posted Mar 21 2017 - 05:13

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You didn't disprove anything at all. Valiant effort, though.

Still, using real money has more options to accelerate your progress, skill your crews more quickly, fire premium ammo 100% of the time, and allow you access to a larger pool of tanks that are considered "OP" with less risk of serious nerfs (Leafblower, E25, SkorpG, etc etc etc).

All you did was make a counter-argument suggesting P2W players don't have as huge of an advantage as some people think. To this end, i agree. The bigger advantage comes to those who have 12 hours a day, every day, to play.

diesel__1 #158 Posted Mar 21 2017 - 05:26

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View Postomgtankswtfbbq, on Mar 20 2017 - 21:13, said:

The bigger advantage comes to those who have 12 hours a day, every day, to play.

 

This!!!!  Practice becoming skill!

__Pure__ #159 Posted Mar 21 2017 - 07:24

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View PostSpitYoYoMafia, on Mar 21 2017 - 04:17, said:

 

Uh, it takes a lot of effort to unlock higher tiers as credits are a major issue. On top of that they don't have the credits or free xp to not stock grind or spam premium. 

 

If you think it's easy then try making a brand new account and play on it for a week. I did. It's not worth the effort when I've already made millions upon millions of creds and own a lot of stuff. There's a reason why botting exists and why people actually have lives and do things other than gaming.

 

It usually takes me over a week to unlock a T10 after getting the T9 so that's quite a bit of time and that's playing around 3 hours a day.

 

​since I know what I am doing new account easy buy sliver and gold pack buy a premium tank play said premium tank with crew and xp boosters and boom would you look at that a new t8 tank in what maybe 100battles now I can go from there. This game has made it so easy to grind tanks like what more do you want

Edited by pure_invader, Mar 21 2017 - 07:24.





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