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252y, or u.


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Dirizon #1 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 02:16

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ln all honesty,  are their people that do not think the 252y is overpowered?

l mean, l can watch all the big names on youtube or stream,  and some say yes..some no..

 

As much complaining as there can be,  about the Maus, and granted Maus is very strong now - it isn't overpowered. Because it just gets hammered by artillery, it cannot function as a conventional heavy crossing open ground, can't work well with team mates around corners, Etc. 

 

But this 252y, it is so laughable. Who in the right mind decided on conjuring this up, and who in the right mind are invested as supertesters to okay this?  laul? Looking at it:

 

- lt has greater than lS4 upper side hull armour.  185 eff vs 176.

- The lower side hull, is lS7 level protection, a cool 1OOmm T8. 

- Middle side hull autobounces <14cm guns because of the increase to 45mm, and is sheathed by 3Omm ontop to predetonate HE

- lt has essentially,  lS7 upper front hull, in a more compact frame. Angling it improperly, reduces it to 24O-26Omm, still ludicrous for T8.

- lt lower glacis '  'weakness'  ' is respectively as strong as E1OO or lS7 lower glacis....The lower glacis,  is stronger than Tiger ll upper front armour..... 

- Turret cupolas are rather small, and still rather thick. Turret roof 55mm for autobounces. 

- Relatively thick rear armour & angled,  immune to random 1O.5 - 12.2cm howitzer HEAT shot, will bounce stuff like 59-16 / MT25 AP. 

- Not handicapped by lS3A or 112 poor horsepower. 7OO horses ready to go, with passable heavy tank terrain resistances. 

- Not handicapped by Lowe, T34 level of DPM. Not handicapped by T34 drop dead soft gun stats. High alpha damage coupled with APCR, not HEAT.

- Excellent in-fighting ability and resistance to scouts, as the tracks traverse very quickly for a heavy (2nd best T8)

- -6 gun depression isn't as crippling as -4 or -5, which you'd expect. 

 

The tank has excellent Pen, excellent alpha damage, the DPM isn't the low you'd expect, weakspots aren't very weak and/or are small, and the tank has an idiot proof forgiving frame. The tank is the size of a cool and compact lS3, covers ground quite swiftly, gun depression isn't all too bad. 

l think the tipping of the scale, was giving the tank the increase from 3O-to-45mm sides, which removed the REAL weakness. But hey,  who thought and decided putting in the incarnate of lS7 into T8 would be great.  And for the people who think, ' ' well it sees T8, it is bad there' '  This just in,  T8 tanks see T1O....And of them, 252y does it among the best. lt still trades really well, isn't cursed with unreliable hEAT, is reasonably mobile and compact, still has an excellent turret, and autobounce upper front armour....

Balance, is the word to watch. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



WhatsThisBoxFor #2 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 02:21

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It's not OP if you are competent at the game.

UntamedAssassin #3 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 02:26

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I dont think its OP..... however it is really good tier for tier and competes very well with other t8 hvys

Lord_Hiney #4 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 02:44

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You failed to mention the trash gun handling, which is a weakness. And it makes the already marginal dpm worse in effect.

It's decent, but not OP.

It is too powerful for a premium tank though, IMO.

play4funz #5 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 02:54

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I have one... I don't pay much attention to players who complain that a tank is OP when they don't even know it's designator.

 

It is a good tank, but definitely not OP.



CanOfTomatoes #6 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 02:54

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I will refer to someone with a ton more validity and knowledge than this OP or any of the posters crying about the tank.  Pro feedback: This is a pretty standard Soviet “medium-heavy” tank, akin to the IS-7 line. If you have a preferred loadout for tanks of that style, I would recommend sticking to it. Personally, I would go for increasing the DPM, reducing dispersion, and increasing mobility.  

 

Distance is both ally and enemy to the Object 252U. At close range, its accuracy is not a significant hindrance; however, the enemy can more easily hit those weak points in return. When brawling, the tank’s low DPM means most enemies of equal or higher tier can deal more damage in the same amount of time.

But, if you force the enemy to trade shot for shot, you can negate some of the DPM disadvantage, and potentially gain the upper hand. The best way to do this is to use cover while reloading. When doing so, it’s also important to keep some distance (50m to 100m), or to have enough teammates nearby to dissuade the enemy from simply flanking your cover.

 

  • Poor accuracy, long aim times and mediocre DPM hampers damage output
  • Low view range
  • Several small weak spots pepper along the frontal armor

Nothing speaks about over powered in fact the Pro recommends a buff...nuff said...

 



Gunadie #7 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 03:37

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View PostWhatsThisBoxFor, on Mar 17 2017 - 17:21, said:

It's not OP if you are competent at the game.

 

Nice alt account

Now lets see your actual game account so we can see the 252 you have in your garage!!



Gunadie #8 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 03:41

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View PostUntamedAssassin, on Mar 17 2017 - 17:26, said:

I dont think its OP..... however it is really good tier for tier and competes very well with other t8 hvys

 

​How do you manage a 25% win rate in a WZ111?

Are you throwing games on purpose?



Dirizon #9 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 04:46

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View PostCanOfTomatoes, on Mar 18 2017 - 02:54, said:

I will refer to someone with a ton more validity and knowledge than this OP or any of the posters crying about the tank.  Pro feedback: This is a pretty standard Soviet “medium-heavy” tank, akin to the IS-7 line. If you have a preferred loadout for tanks of that style, I would recommend sticking to it. Personally, I would go for increasing the DPM, reducing dispersion, and increasing mobility.  

 

Distance is both ally and enemy to the Object 252U. At close range, its accuracy is not a significant hindrance; however, the enemy can more easily hit those weak points in return. When brawling, the tank’s low DPM means most enemies of equal or higher tier can deal more damage in the same amount of time.

But, if you force the enemy to trade shot for shot, you can negate some of the DPM disadvantage, and potentially gain the upper hand. The best way to do this is to use cover while reloading. When doing so, it’s also important to keep some distance (50m to 100m), or to have enough teammates nearby to dissuade the enemy from simply flanking your cover.

 

  • Poor accuracy, long aim times and mediocre DPM hampers damage output
  • Low view range
  • Several small weak spots pepper along the frontal armor

Nothing speaks about over powered in fact the Pro recommends a buff...nuff said...

 

 

So aces think the tank is all-powerful.  Some aces think it is not. Most of the aces that think it is middle to good,  are T X med enthusiasts that can't bother playing any other tank that has lesser terrain soft stats,  and gun handling. Most aces that agree that the tank is too powerful,  are generalists who will play any tank great. Game wide speaking, l'm inclined to believe the latter more,  as they aren't fundamentally poisoned by overbearing medium tanks like the other aces, basing everything else they drive on these medium tanks. 

 

The game favours alpha damage,  strong frontal armour with angles,  APCR shells instead of HEAT, and mobility. 252y does all those. All of the maps are city maps, to which 252y dominates, and maps that are open and bushy,  other heavy tanks don't do too well in anyway. 

The weaknesses you just listed,  are few and far especially for other heavy tanks to exploit by Tier. Every heavy tanks will bounce off 252y upper front armour, and most even risk 5O-5O bounce with AP on lower armour. The thin drivers rebar above his hatch is flat of course, but is simply too small to aim at,  and is 25Omm anyways so still needs a gold round. The drivers hatch is 6O' and autobounce. The lS6 styled top cupolas are small targets. The roof is 55mm,  so unable to overmatch. 

 

When you look at other T 8 tanks, there is nothing really to see or compare to, other than lS3, AMX M4 49, or T32/Patriot. All others are fodder for it. 

 

 

 



WhatsThisBoxFor #10 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 05:12

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View PostGunadie, on Mar 18 2017 - 03:37, said:

 

Nice alt account

Now lets see your actual game account so we can see the 252 you have in your garage!!

I do. And the 2400 DPG/59% wins I manage in it matches pretty well with the 2100 DPG/60% wins I manage in the 112. Yet the 112 is fun and the Defender is annoying because it's so trash in almost all aspects except against autoaming pubbies and trading 1 for 1 with utter sh*tlords. 



WhatsThisBoxFor #11 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 05:15

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View PostGunadie, on Mar 18 2017 - 03:41, said:

 

​How do you manage a 25% win rate in a WZ111?

Are you throwing games on purpose?

How do YOU manage a 46% winrate and 1697 average damage at tier 10? Are you throwing games on purpose? I hope so for your sake...



Dirizon #12 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 06:11

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View PostWhatsThisBoxFor, on Mar 18 2017 - 05:12, said:

I do. And the 2400 DPG/59% wins I manage in it matches pretty well with the 2100 DPG/60% wins I manage in the 112. Yet the 112 is fun and the Defender is annoying because it's so trash in almost all aspects except against autoaming pubbies and trading 1 for 1 with utter sh*tlords. 

 

Talk is cheap.  Alt accounts are cheap.  Your opinion is O% valid, because it is a lie.  lf you were telling the truth,  than you would have nothing to Alt for.

112 isn't a defender either. 112 is a reduced MM tank. People earn higher WN8 on these tanks than normal T 8. Your opinion absolutely nil.

People like Quickybaby or LemmingRush, or Anfield say it isn't overpowered.  But people like SirFoch, circon, Dez, Sahm,  Valachio say it is. Take your pick

At any rate,  ALL of these replays show clear things,  252y doing what 0THER T8 heavies do not commonly do, and if they did accomplish it, it was lS3 doing it. 252y simply trades lS3 for better protection, better alpha damage,   for the costs of slightly less speed and better gun stats.

l value the opinions of these,  transparent, vivid people - not your meaningless empty statements.

 

 



ryan062 #13 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 06:39

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Personally I do think it's op,  but I'll wait for the unbiased game stats to say for sure.  Whether you and I can personally handle the defender is not truly the issue here.  I here so many people say "well all you have to do is ...." What matters is when you're on the other end of the map, and a defender backed up by 1 or 2 low tiers trashes half your team.  If the average, mediocre has a far harder time dealing with a defender than an IS3 or a tiger 2 or whatever, than it is outpacing it's tiers.  That is the definition of op, not how good you personally cnnot deal with them.  Too many people either own them and don't want them nerfed, or are in desperaterms need of an ego boost.

 

As a side note, and this is likely just random chance, but I believe the only times a defender has nailed me were long range shots while they were unspoiled. 



Dirizon #14 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 07:19

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There are ways to make 252y bearable, acceptable.  

They can start by giving it lS3A 52O Horsepower engine. They can continue with reducing the side armour slot back to 3Omm. They can give it -5 gun depression it should have. 

They can also give it,  deservingly,  opposite increased MM.  lt is treated like a T8 scout,  and only sees T9  & 1O.

 



seaeagle #15 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 17:21

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Of course it is OP. In saying that it will not make a bad player good. I dont take them on 1 on 1 when close in Lowe and I spam gold at them. Works well enough for me. 

I may co sider getting one if available at years end, unless WG nerf it.



F0R_M07H3R_RU5514 #16 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 17:26

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View PostGunadie, on Mar 17 2017 - 21:37, said:

 

Nice alt account

Now lets see your actual game account so we can see the 252 you have in your garage!!

 

 

I'm not apologist, but an alt account in the forums, could be due to a forum RO on a main account.



RingZero #17 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 18:15

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I've fought against them over the last week and my overall impression of them is somewhat underwhelming.

MinkeWhale #18 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 19:45

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It's just powercreep. Like the swedish stuff. Or the Patriot, skorpion g, etc.

Gunadie #19 Posted Mar 19 2017 - 11:07

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View PostWhatsThisBoxFor, on Mar 17 2017 - 20:15, said:

How do YOU manage a 46% winrate and 1697 average damage at tier 10? Are you throwing games on purpose? I hope so for your sake...

 

No, I'm one of those shtlords that you don't like

But I don't hide either.

Lets see you actual game account so we can critique your stats!

But I guess your just "fake news" as no one can tell otherwise.



Gunadie #20 Posted Mar 19 2017 - 11:16

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View PostDirizon, on Mar 17 2017 - 21:11, said:

 

Talk is cheap.  Alt accounts are cheap.  Your opinion is O% valid, because it is a lie.  lf you were telling the truth,  than you would have nothing to Alt for.

112 isn't a defender either. 112 is a reduced MM tank. People earn higher WN8 on these tanks than normal T 8. Your opinion absolutely nil.

People like Quickybaby or LemmingRush, or Anfield say it isn't overpowered.  But people like SirFoch, circon, Dez, Sahm,  Valachio say it is. Take your pick

At any rate,  ALL of these replays show clear things,  252y doing what 0THER T8 heavies do not commonly do, and if they did accomplish it, it was lS3 doing it. 252y simply trades lS3 for better protection, better alpha damage,   for the costs of slightly less speed and better gun stats.

l value the opinions of these,  transparent, vivid people - not your meaningless empty statements.

 

 

 

​The UNKNOWNONE referred to OP as in ones perspective or definition of what's OP

I disagree, I believe the ONLY way tanks are balanced is within their tier and not across more that.

Because once you get to tier 10 you will always be top dog and all lower tiers will be balancing up to you as well as being

balanced down -2 as this is their battle range

I have always thought that this is the biggest reason that this game lacks proper balance

But then again I guess proper balance is also  ones perspective or definition of what's balance is actually defined as.

It used to be from my understanding between Armor, mobility and fire power as hard stats and then micro balanced with soft stats.

But that doesn't seem to be any actual hard and fast rule that War Gaming utilizes as we have seen for the past couple of years.






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