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Pz lll E cant pen matilda with APCR?


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Ball_Turret #1 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 05:33

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My panzer has the 5cm gun with a few apcr rounds in case I run across thick armored tanks like the matilda but when I try to shoot even at the sides and rear both the hull and turret some of my rounds if not all of them cant pen its 75/70 mm of armor with a gun pen value of 96 with the apcr how is it possible that I still fail to pen its armor? Is the panzer's gun too small to make any difference? Or is it something else like firing at the tank like on a hilly slope?

ogHaKo #2 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 05:43

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as far as I remember German 5cm guns have terrible APCR pen drop over distance, at 500m its literally 1/2 of what it originally is.

 

Maybe thats the reason?


Edited by ogHaKo, Mar 18 2017 - 05:43.


HyP3rN0va #3 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 05:44

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http://tanks.gg/tank/matilda/model?cl=41212b&cs=pz-iii-e&vm=live

Looking here, and taking account of gold rounds, you should have a strong chance to pen the Matilda, except at the really weird angles at the front. I've even checked the collision model with different distances, and the III E still had about a 90% chance to pen the sides.. 

(Side note; the distance set on the second link is 300 meters for the hitscan model)


Edited by HyP3rN0va, Mar 18 2017 - 05:47.


ryan062 #4 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 05:45

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You have to take into account the angle the tank was positioned at when you fired.  And whether the table know was above or below you.  And exactly where RNG decided to place the round that you had aimed.  And the +/- 25% penetration parameters.  And which tank is more russian (kidding, but with the release of the defender, I'm not so sure any more).

 

Edit: The site the guy above me mentioned is a really valuable tool, you should take a look.



da_Rock002 #5 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 12:29

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The Pz IIIE is a decent tier3 tank.   It's got great speed yet is easier to drive than a lot of fast movers.   That gun you're using is first class for the tier.   Pen for the regular shells beats what most other tier3s have.   And the gold shells have half again the pen, something that isn't always the case.    What you have talked about is what your life is going to be filled with for quite some time. 

 

 

You're going to see a lot of battles where you are bottom tier.   The game is what it is. 

The Matilda is a tier5 medium and you're a tier3 light.   The  Matilda's armor is thick enough your std rounds won't penetrate anywhere except the rear of the hull.  Gold will but not if it hits at an angle.     Sound bad to you?      It's not as bad as this comparison sounds.


 

Your std can actually penetrate lots of other imposing tanks, even tier5s.   For example, say a heavy T14 happens to be what pops up when your enemy comes into view early in the battle.    His hull is 50mm all the way round.   Shoot there.   Most tier5 mediums have the same thickness or less.   Tier3 was where I discovered it's usually better to hit 'em in the hull and that some turret shots are better NOT taken at all.


 

this is not a simple game     



Asiaticus #6 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 13:19

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View Postda_Rock002, on Mar 18 2017 - 06:29, said:

The Matilda is a tier5 medium.

 

Er, tier 4 last time I checked.



da_Rock002 #7 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 15:56

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View PostAsiaticus, on Mar 18 2017 - 07:19, said:

 

Er, tier 4 last time I checked.

 

I bought mine off the Tech Tree and my version of the game has it and the Matilda Black Prince on tier5.    what can I say

 

.....  Oh wait...   there is a tree matilda.    I can't remember seeing one in battle but it surely is my mistake.   And YUP, mine is a MatildaIV.

 

 

So the tree Matilda he was facing was basically a tier5 on tier4.    You do realize don't you they all have the same hull armor, while the turrets are equal from the front and only the BP turret sides and back are slightly less.   Glad the tier4 one isn't very popular.


Edited by da_Rock002, Mar 18 2017 - 18:05.


HyP3rN0va #8 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 20:07

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View Postda_Rock002, on Mar 18 2017 - 09:56, said:

 

  Glad the tier4 one isn't very popular.
 Even though the tree Matilda is a tier lower than the BP and Russian version, and has more armor than the heavies of its tier and the most annoying gun to date. Glad it's slow, statpadders would have murdered tier 4 if it was any faster.

Edited by HyP3rN0va, Mar 18 2017 - 20:10.


TsarCidron #9 Posted Mar 18 2017 - 20:10

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Short version - learn the weak spots.  Both those unique to the tank as well as the universal ones (cupola, gun ports, access hatches, vision ports) .   And, 'tillie is slow enough that getting around to the sides, and rear should be do'able.  Those locations have weaker armor.   Taking on a tank head on, face to face, isnt always a smart thing.

Horrorfiend #10 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 06:39

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Historically, a Panzer Mk. III of any type was no match for a Matilda II since it's main gun could not pierce the armor of the British tank, for that matter, neither could the 75 mm of the Panzer Mk. IV D or Mk. IV F.1. Until 1941-42, the only cannon the German's had in their inventory that could pierce the armor of a Matilda II was the Flak18/36 88mm anti aircraft cannon which the Germans used in desperation against French and British armor during the Battle of Arras, 1940. The German's ran into the same problem again against the Soviet KV-1's. So in this little example, the game is fairly accurate. The Matilda II's strength was it's heavy armor protection which was pretty much impervious against the firepower of most of it's contemporaries of the period, however, it's very slow speed and the fact it could not mount anything beyond it's 2lb cannon were it's major liabilities. It was called an "Infantry Tank" as it was designed to provide support for infantry against other tanks. I suppose one should be grateful the powers that be have forsaken accuracy to an extant. 

muddybruin #11 Posted Mar 23 2017 - 19:36

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Matilda is one of the best armored Tier 4s even from the side. A lot of times people see side armor and think Easy Peasy and get sloppy about the angle. You want to ensure the shot hits as close to perfectly flat as possible. 70 mm is less than 95 but at a 45 degree angle it will exceed it and be 70*sqrt(2) = 70*1.4 = 98-ish effective. Also penetration has RNG rolls so sometimes you just get unlucky




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