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Cheesehead1964 #21 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 15:39

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Your stats are pretty good for your low game tally - makes me wish I'd have stayed in lower tiers a lot longer instead of jumping up to Tier V. I have a great win rate in my Pz II... But everyone tells me Tier V is where the real game starts so that's where I've been playing...

 

My last 100 games have been horrid. I was on a good roll recently where I was playing my KV1 a lot and my win rate, damage done and experience were all increasing steadily. In the last week I've had a win rate of 35%. Yeah I know I'm making noob mistakes and overplaying sometimes, but MM feels like it's been pretty unfair too.

 

How many times can I trot out to my usual heavy spots on the map only to see the other team go up 6 to 1 before I'm even in position?

 

It's pretty aggravating and discouraging. I was steadily on the path to getting to say, 45% win rate (my KV1 was over 50% WR) before being beaten back with regular sessions where I win 2 of 12.

 

I know I'm still a noob and shouldn't be too fixated on win rates at this point, but it honestly seams like the MM has shifted against me the last week. I also feel like I'm low tier most of the time.

 

I've honestly wondered if MM beats down pay to play players like me (I've dropped a fair amount on gold and premiums - too much - someone has to pay for those Super Bowl ads I guess)... If you start to play well, it will beat you down so you spend more.

 

I really enjoy the game, but after the last week I'm seriously considering giving it up.


Edited by Cheesehead1964, Mar 20 2017 - 15:41.


da_Rock002 #22 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 16:29

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If you have a good win rate in that PzII and WR matters to you, go run the tank.   It can be a great tool for YOUR judging the game. 


 

You are low tier most of the time, and that's not going to change anytime soon.   Apparently WoT shoveling out those skill-skewed matchups isn't going to change anytime soon either.  


 

You know the upper tier tanks you're facing often have multi-skill crews?   they often have better vision than you too, along with their guns and armor.   they're often faster, and their players know the maps.    etc etc etc    


 

Focusing on what's not good is wasting your time and you actually haven't found all of it yet.    Get over the WR.   You don't control it.   If you did, you'd be wrong about all those things that are 'ruining' your fun.   They really are happening and they appear to really be ruining your fun.    They are the game.   It apparently has been like this since 2011 or whenever..... 


 

A lot of people have gotten good at it.   They didn't have all the fun things that have been added since it started, the things that help those who have figured out how to get the help those things give.   They often laugh at newbs who cry about the problems.   And thank their stars there still are newbs bringing DMG filled tanks into their battles.    That really isn't going to change either.  


 

Stay or go is every newbs decision.    


 


 



PanzerGruppenstaffe #23 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 18:18

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View PostCheesehead1964, on Mar 20 2017 - 15:39, said:

Your stats are pretty good for your low game tally - makes me wish I'd have stayed in lower tiers a lot longer instead of jumping up to Tier V. I have a great win rate in my Pz II... But everyone tells me Tier V is where the real game starts so that's where I've been playing...

 

My last 100 games have been horrid. I was on a good roll recently where I was playing my KV1 a lot and my win rate, damage done and experience were all increasing steadily. In the last week I've had a win rate of 35%. Yeah I know I'm making noob mistakes and overplaying sometimes, but MM feels like it's been pretty unfair too.

 

How many times can I trot out to my usual heavy spots on the map only to see the other team go up 6 to 1 before I'm even in position?

 

It's pretty aggravating and discouraging. I was steadily on the path to getting to say, 45% win rate (my KV1 was over 50% WR) before being beaten back with regular sessions where I win 2 of 12.

 

I know I'm still a noob and shouldn't be too fixated on win rates at this point, but it honestly seams like the MM has shifted against me the last week. I also feel like I'm low tier most of the time.

 

I've honestly wondered if MM beats down pay to play players like me (I've dropped a fair amount on gold and premiums - too much - someone has to pay for those Super Bowl ads I guess)... If you start to play well, it will beat you down so you spend more.

 

I really enjoy the game, but after the last week I'm seriously considering giving it up.

 

 

Fact of the matter is the MM algorithm in current use is unknown but WG has patents on algorithms that give higher tier matches if you are successful and also gives you lower skilled teammates if you are successful.

 

The good news is that the game therefore is **never** not challenging due to what MM WG uses (despite the odd blow out in your favor, you will have to carry horrible teams too) and you will never be bored running around killing bots (though it may seem like it given some of the potatoes out there).

 

If you could win more than 60% of your games you would be in the top 0.1% of players...and WG makes sure that is very few of the player base to keep people spending on their game.

 

This grind is wearing, I must admit. The question for each player is how much they can stand. 


Edited by PanzerGruppenstaffe, Mar 20 2017 - 18:26.


Cheesehead1964 #24 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 18:41

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After playing my first 1,000 games I'm pretty convinced MM is rigged. In my case I think it pushes the my win rate even lower because I probably pay for play more than average. And if I'm losing, hey, it can only help to spend more gold right?

 

I thought this was an interesting read: http://lightquick.co...html?Itemid=252

 

It was exactly my experience with the KV1. Had a good run for several hundred games. Win rate, damage done, and experience all steadily improving. Hey I'm getting better! Great game!

 

The last few hundred games have been abysmal. My win rate as gone down a lot. But curiously my damage done and experience have increased slightly. Same trend as the article.

 

You can look at my stats and tell me I suck. Fine. But I was enjoying the game and felt like I was steadily improving.

 

But the MM gaming BS will probably drive me out of the game. I'm not whining. I'm just disappointed because I really liked the game...



da_Rock002 #25 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 18:50

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Cheese,

 If you really can't separate the stats from the game then there is a proven way to get around the problem.    Thousands appear to have done the same thing.


 

Play and learn your way to tier five, six, or so.    Do it on the cheap.   Don't buy Premiums or at least many of them.   You can't efficiently train low tier crews anyway.   When you've been in tier6 for awhile you will have seen almost all the maps enough times to have good working knowledge.    When you feel confident there do what so many do.     Reroll


 

The game pushes everyone that way anyway.   The lower tiers are death on stats and don't reward worth crap.   No credits to earn, no damage on the map to farm, and gangs of seal clubbers running around cutting the classroom sessions to half the usual time.       Seriously..... 



Cheesehead1964 #26 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 19:05

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View Postda_Rock002, on Mar 20 2017 - 18:50, said:

Cheese,

 If you really can't separate the stats from the game then there is a proven way to get around the problem.    Thousands appear to have done the same thing.


 

Play and learn your way to tier five, six, or so.    Do it on the cheap.   Don't buy Premiums or at least many of them.   You can't efficiently train low tier crews anyway.   When you've been in tier6 for awhile you will have seen almost all the maps enough times to have good working knowledge.    When you feel confident there do what so many do.     Reroll


 

The game pushes everyone that way anyway.   The lower tiers are death on stats and don't reward worth crap.   No credits to earn, no damage on the map to farm, and gangs of seal clubbers running around cutting the classroom sessions to half the usual time.       Seriously..... 

 

Good advice. I haven't been really trying to buy success in the game. I am more of an enthusiast who can't help himself. I haven't purchased anything over a Tier V premium and haven't played a game above Tier V. Of my 1000 battles, 800 are in Tier V. I suppose I could have played more games below Tier V, but everyone says to get there quickly. Tiers 1 and 2 are chaos and I felt pretty good in my PzII. Tiers III and IV ALWAYS felt low tier...

 

I've had most success in my KV1 - a non-premium. I was above 50 percent win rate before the blood bath (now it's around 47%). I do okay in my PzT25 and Churchill III. I also enjoy Matildas, though win rate is lower. Wanted to love the T34 but suck at it. I'm enjoying playing an SU85 TD.

 

I've been told to master the KV1, and I do play most of my games in it. That was okay until the recent bloodbath.

 

And I'm getting a decent working knowledge of the maps - at least for heavies.

 

I guess my goal has been try to finish top six in damage and/or experience if top tier and mid-pack if lower tier. That's probably the best advice I've gotten.

 



dunniteowl #27 Posted Mar 21 2017 - 04:25

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View PostCheesehead1964, on Mar 20 2017 - 15:39, said:

Your stats are pretty good for your low game tally - makes me wish I'd have stayed in lower tiers a lot longer instead of jumping up to Tier V. I have a great win rate in my Pz II... But everyone tells me Tier V is where the real game starts so that's where I've been playing...

 

My last 100 games have been horrid. I was on a good roll recently where I was playing my KV1 a lot and my win rate, damage done and experience were all increasing steadily. In the last week I've had a win rate of 35%. Yeah I know I'm making noob mistakes and overplaying sometimes, but MM feels like it's been pretty unfair too.

 

How many times can I trot out to my usual heavy spots on the map only to see the other team go up 6 to 1 before I'm even in position?

 

It's pretty aggravating and discouraging. I was steadily on the path to getting to say, 45% win rate (my KV1 was over 50% WR) before being beaten back with regular sessions where I win 2 of 12.

 

I know I'm still a noob and shouldn't be too fixated on win rates at this point, but it honestly seams like the MM has shifted against me the last week. I also feel like I'm low tier most of the time.

 

I've honestly wondered if MM beats down pay to play players like me (I've dropped a fair amount on gold and premiums - too much - someone has to pay for those Super Bowl ads I guess)... If you start to play well, it will beat you down so you spend more.

 

I really enjoy the game, but after the last week I'm seriously considering giving it up.

Not *everyone* told you that.  There was a certain owl out there who-who-whooo counseled learning down in the lower tiers before you ventured up too fast.


 

GL, HF & HSYBF



Ball_Turret #28 Posted Mar 21 2017 - 04:50

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View Postda_Rock002, on Mar 20 2017 - 02:06, said:

A brand new player with only 277 battles who has already won TWO Ace Tanker mastery awards suggests you will have no problem with the game.   In fact you're already shooting at almost a 60% hit rate, and a 1.4 Destruction Ratio suggests you're right at home in this game.

 

The game is what it is.   Newbies encountering Seal Bashers and re-rolls out to make new and better stats shouldn't be a problem for you.

 

 

 

Granted I only got those early due to practicing on Scrubland Blitz for awhile on how to angle, side scrape, some basic things and so far its paying off to an extent so far only +2 tanks are what seem to give me the most headaches but I have to deal with what I rolled in the mm.

Gothraul #29 Posted Mar 21 2017 - 05:45

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I don't blame anyone for feeling that mm is rigged and sometimes it is but not for what people think however no one knows what is in the sauce except that it doesn't balance for skill at all, tier distribution, and class distribution evenly so basically it throws poop at the wall for sake of making for faster ques. Hopefully they will have the template system in use and more so that maybe they will balance for classes at least.

 

As for personal win rate improving skill wise makes a big difference but also what time of day and tiers that you play has a big impact then there is phases with the meta/player base where things become complete cancer so people lose or win more than they would normally have.



Cheesehead1964 #30 Posted Mar 21 2017 - 12:53

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View Postdunniteowl, on Mar 21 2017 - 04:25, said:

 

 

 

Not *everyone* told you that.  There was a certain owl out there who-who-whooo counseled learning down in the lower tiers before you ventured up too fast.


 

GL, HF & HSYBF

 

View PostGothraul, on Mar 21 2017 - 05:45, said:

I don't blame anyone for feeling that mm is rigged and sometimes it is but not for what people think however no one knows what is in the sauce except that it doesn't balance for skill at all, tier distribution, and class distribution evenly so basically it throws poop at the wall for sake of making for faster ques. Hopefully they will have the template system in use and more so that maybe they will balance for classes at least.

 

As for personal win rate improving skill wise makes a big difference but also what time of day and tiers that you play has a big impact then there is phases with the meta/player base where things become complete cancer so people lose or win more than they would normally have.

 

Owl, I'm willing to give that a try - going back a few tiers. Is there a tank and tier you recommend? Tiers 1 and 2 seem a bit chaotic. Tiers 3 and 4 seem to land lower tier a lot and you end up fodder for better players.

 

Goth, you are right about improving skill helping and probably right about speeding the queues being the biggest thing driving MM - that makes perfect sense. When are good/bad times to play?

 

My frustration is seeing steady progression for a few 100 games and now I feel like I'm in free fall. Don't know if I should focus only on the KV1, drop back a few tiers, or mix it up and try to learn TDs or mediums. I honestly don't know.



Ball_Turret #31 Posted Mar 22 2017 - 06:19

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View PostGothraul, on Mar 21 2017 - 05:45, said:

I don't blame anyone for feeling that mm is rigged and sometimes it is but not for what people think however no one knows what is in the sauce except that it doesn't balance for skill at all, tier distribution, and class distribution evenly so basically it throws poop at the wall for sake of making for faster ques. Hopefully they will have the template system in use and more so that maybe they will balance for classes at least.

 

As for personal win rate improving skill wise makes a big difference but also what time of day and tiers that you play has a big impact then there is phases with the meta/player base where things become complete cancer so people lose or win more than they would normally have.

 

This kinda summarizes my feelings towards how the mm works and the player base tends to be well said Goth. Frankly I shouldn't care about my win rates all that much especially when I'm grinding on stock with 80% or lower trained crews with no perk skills. :confused:

dunniteowl #32 Posted Mar 22 2017 - 07:14

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Warning!  Not for the Faint of Heart! To those of more determined minds, I believe you will find this useful.

 

 

Honestly, I am playing an MS-1 (T1), AT-1, T-26, SU-18 (T2) and LTP (Prem T3) Russians, the Strv fm/21 (T1) and the L60 (Prem T2) Swedish units.  All of these are sucky to play, imo.  That said, I am determined to do my best and sucky or not, I gotta make them do what I want.

 

 

My experience is only really in terms of number of matches.  That said, I had a sort of 'epiphany' on my playing at around 6800 matches, where I was at about 48.23% Steady and Overall WR.  Since then, my Overall WR has steadily trended upwards and my general recents are usually around 56% or so lately.  I think the biggest change was that I decided I was going to focus on playing and not blame anyone else or anything else for my performance.

 

As I was going through that shift in perspective, I changed the way I play very markedly.  Suddenly I felt like, because I wasn't triggered into 'trying to get' something to occur before I started playing, I was calmer and more alert.  I wish I could have played like that when I first started this game.

 

So, in any case, I am basically a contrarian player suggesting new players take longer playing their sucky low tier units and get past the desire to rush up to tier 5 'where the game can be learned.'  The truth is all the mechanics work the same way at those tiers as they do at the top tiers.  As I am suggesting a contrary course of action, I know that my advice might be deemed 'unsound,' to put it politely.  I will please ask anyone to examine my stat history and see where I had my "sea change" of attitude and perception at I think it was 6685 matches or so.  You can check it out on VBAddict, WoTLabs in finer detail than here.

 

I don't claim magic status or 'great player' status, not by a long shot.  That said, if you look at the difference from then till now and see the trend, recognize that it is EXACTLY THIS CONTRARIAN VIEW that got me there.  I think that should speak clearly to any player that would prefer proof over my opinion.

 

 

So, if I were to advise beyond spend more time in lower tiers and longer on each unit, even well past 'useful' research points, it would be to look at tiers 1 through 5 as the Beginners to Intermediates on the 'slopes' of WoT.  For a while, learn to get the feel on the Green Circle Bunny Slopes, then move to the Blue Squares.  Once you can verify you can excel at those, then you move on to the Black Diamonds (Tiers 6-8) and then the Double Black Diamonds (tiers 9-10.  )

 

 

Crew Training is an overlooked function of time in a tank.  Not just for the crew, for you as well.  Crew training is important over time.  If you think you can do it, try a hundred matches in a single unit.  Then trade up.  A hundred matches should tell you that you know the tank well enough to know if you have it 'figured out' or 'mastered.'

 

It will also provide your crew enough training to make it worth bringing them along to the next tier if they can apply for the job.  20K retrains to 75% of the new tank OR 90% of the previous value, whichever is greater.  Once your crew hits about 83%, it's worth bringing them along as they are slightly more highly trained than a Regimental 75% crew.

 

A better crew is a better crew.  If it's the same cost, then what are you having to decide, right?  The first time you change classes (at T2, then again usually at T3 and T4 or T5 (depending on when your Nation Line gets its first heavy tank) you might probably want to just put in a new crew altogether, but again, if you CAN bring a more seasoned tanker up from a lower tier you will no longer play, why not?

 

 

Now, if you ARE going to remotely take my advice, don't think it will be easier.  I do believe, however, it will make you a much better player overall.

Focus on not rushing up a line -- instead focus on learning the mechanics of the game and applying them to the tank you are in right now.  If you apply them now, guess what?  They start working now.

 

Do damage, survive, cooperate and hopefully win.  All you do should be applied to those concepts.  Camo and Vision/Spotting; Angling Armor and Ammo Penetration; Cover and Terrain.  These things will begin to work for you immediately once you learn to apply them to your unit.  Period.

 

 

As again, this is a contrary point of view, allow me to relate a small true life tale of how this might work:

Spoiler


 

I play all units and am attempting to do at least 50% in all of them that I play.  So for me, it's a hundred matches at least or until I hit that mark of 50%.  Longer still if I find I like that particular unit.

 

I have to admit, I don't think I'm ever going to sell my AT2.  Might always keep my T1 Heavy.  I love the T67, but I don't know, there are way too many times I am rekt before I know what hit me in that, too.  I hate my T5 German Leopard more than my T4 DW2 Hvy and *that* tank made me stop hating the Churchill T5 British Hvy.  I really like my JgPzIV (my only T6) German TD, but I pretty much feel like I can't break that 50% marker at the moment.

 

Do you see the similarity to what I say at T5 and T6 compared to what you say and hear at tiers 1-4?  I'm telling you, that situation does not change.  You have to see the landscape truthfully and then, instead of wail and moan about it, know that you can adapt to the situation and overcome the obstacles to win -- and still have fun doing it.

 

That is what I did.  It is why I recommend staying longer in each tier and in each unit.  Treat it as WoT's version of Master Miyagi telling you, "Wax-eh on," [motioning with the right hand], "and wax-eh off!" [motioning with the left hand.]  You are in training and you have your white belts or whatever color it is for the first group. (for those that fail the movie reference, Karate Kid -- the original one.  )


 When you get to tier 5, you're going to find that there are still (apparently) Seal Clubbers, too high a tier match and you're "useless" in your Bottom Tier position.  There's still: gold ammo, RNG, crap teams, rofl stomps -- in short all the same crap you complain about now or hear others complain about now don't go away.


 

What are you going to do now?  They (the issues and complaints) just get more expensive and the salt gets more highly iodized.  It's not the tier, it's the player.

 

You focus on you playing well and stick with those lower, cheaper, sucky tiers until you do well enough to feel you do know your tanks (I would suggest a 1st Class or Ace Mastery, combined with a WR in the 48-52% range to act as something like a "regimental" certification) and that your crew is ready for more responsibility in upcoming matches -- and more challenge.

 

Sorry for the long response, this is stuff on my brain lately.  I plan on posting some guides soon, although before I do, I am thinking of asking for a few volunteers to vet my information, which is based primarily on my new way of playing and how it changes the nature of play in the first place.  It's nothing earth shaking, I promise, it's just not 'traditional' peer-gaming thinking when it comes to how to apply your self to the game.


 

Hope any of that was helpful, useful or remotely entertaining!


 

GL, HF & HSYBF!


Edited by dunniteowl, Mar 22 2017 - 07:21.


Cheesehead1964 #33 Posted Mar 22 2017 - 12:55

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View Postdunniteowl, on Mar 22 2017 - 07:14, said:

 

 

Warning!  Not for the Faint of Heart! To those of more determined minds, I believe you will find this useful.

 

 

Honestly, I am playing an MS-1 (T1), AT-1, T-26, SU-18 (T2) and LTP (Prem T3) Russians, the Strv fm/21 (T1) and the L60 (Prem T2) Swedish units.  All of these are sucky to play, imo.  That said, I am determined to do my best and sucky or not, I gotta make them do what I want.

 

 

My experience is only really in terms of number of matches.  That said, I had a sort of 'epiphany' on my playing at around 6800 matches, where I was at about 48.23% Steady and Overall WR.  Since then, my Overall WR has steadily trended upwards and my general recents are usually around 56% or so lately.  I think the biggest change was that I decided I was going to focus on playing and not blame anyone else or anything else for my performance.

 

As I was going through that shift in perspective, I changed the way I play very markedly.  Suddenly I felt like, because I wasn't triggered into 'trying to get' something to occur before I started playing, I was calmer and more alert.  I wish I could have played like that when I first started this game.

 

So, in any case, I am basically a contrarian player suggesting new players take longer playing their sucky low tier units and get past the desire to rush up to tier 5 'where the game can be learned.'  The truth is all the mechanics work the same way at those tiers as they do at the top tiers.  As I am suggesting a contrary course of action, I know that my advice might be deemed 'unsound,' to put it politely.  I will please ask anyone to examine my stat history and see where I had my "sea change" of attitude and perception at I think it was 6685 matches or so.  You can check it out on VBAddict, WoTLabs in finer detail than here.

 

I don't claim magic status or 'great player' status, not by a long shot.  That said, if you look at the difference from then till now and see the trend, recognize that it is EXACTLY THIS CONTRARIAN VIEW that got me there.  I think that should speak clearly to any player that would prefer proof over my opinion.

 

 

So, if I were to advise beyond spend more time in lower tiers and longer on each unit, even well past 'useful' research points, it would be to look at tiers 1 through 5 as the Beginners to Intermediates on the 'slopes' of WoT.  For a while, learn to get the feel on the Green Circle Bunny Slopes, then move to the Blue Squares.  Once you can verify you can excel at those, then you move on to the Black Diamonds (Tiers 6-8) and then the Double Black Diamonds (tiers 9-10.  )

 

 

Crew Training is an overlooked function of time in a tank.  Not just for the crew, for you as well.  Crew training is important over time.  If you think you can do it, try a hundred matches in a single unit.  Then trade up.  A hundred matches should tell you that you know the tank well enough to know if you have it 'figured out' or 'mastered.'

 

It will also provide your crew enough training to make it worth bringing them along to the next tier if they can apply for the job.  20K retrains to 75% of the new tank OR 90% of the previous value, whichever is greater.  Once your crew hits about 83%, it's worth bringing them along as they are slightly more highly trained than a Regimental 75% crew.

 

A better crew is a better crew.  If it's the same cost, then what are you having to decide, right?  The first time you change classes (at T2, then again usually at T3 and T4 or T5 (depending on when your Nation Line gets its first heavy tank) you might probably want to just put in a new crew altogether, but again, if you CAN bring a more seasoned tanker up from a lower tier you will no longer play, why not?

 

 

Now, if you ARE going to remotely take my advice, don't think it will be easier.  I do believe, however, it will make you a much better player overall.

Focus on not rushing up a line -- instead focus on learning the mechanics of the game and applying them to the tank you are in right now.  If you apply them now, guess what?  They start working now.

 

Do damage, survive, cooperate and hopefully win.  All you do should be applied to those concepts.  Camo and Vision/Spotting; Angling Armor and Ammo Penetration; Cover and Terrain.  These things will begin to work for you immediately once you learn to apply them to your unit.  Period.

 

 

As again, this is a contrary point of view, allow me to relate a small true life tale of how this might work:

Spoiler


 

I play all units and am attempting to do at least 50% in all of them that I play.  So for me, it's a hundred matches at least or until I hit that mark of 50%.  Longer still if I find I like that particular unit.

 

I have to admit, I don't think I'm ever going to sell my AT2.  Might always keep my T1 Heavy.  I love the T67, but I don't know, there are way too many times I am rekt before I know what hit me in that, too.  I hate my T5 German Leopard more than my T4 DW2 Hvy and *that* tank made me stop hating the Churchill T5 British Hvy.  I really like my JgPzIV (my only T6) German TD, but I pretty much feel like I can't break that 50% marker at the moment.

 

Do you see the similarity to what I say at T5 and T6 compared to what you say and hear at tiers 1-4?  I'm telling you, that situation does not change.  You have to see the landscape truthfully and then, instead of wail and moan about it, know that you can adapt to the situation and overcome the obstacles to win -- and still have fun doing it.

 

That is what I did.  It is why I recommend staying longer in each tier and in each unit.  Treat it as WoT's version of Master Miyagi telling you, "Wax-eh on," [motioning with the right hand], "and wax-eh off!" [motioning with the left hand.]  You are in training and you have your white belts or whatever color it is for the first group. (for those that fail the movie reference, Karate Kid -- the original one.  )


 When you get to tier 5, you're going to find that there are still (apparently) Seal Clubbers, too high a tier match and you're "useless" in your Bottom Tier position.  There's still: gold ammo, RNG, crap teams, rofl stomps -- in short all the same crap you complain about now or hear others complain about now don't go away.


 

What are you going to do now?  They (the issues and complaints) just get more expensive and the salt gets more highly iodized.  It's not the tier, it's the player.

 

You focus on you playing well and stick with those lower, cheaper, sucky tiers until you do well enough to feel you do know your tanks (I would suggest a 1st Class or Ace Mastery, combined with a WR in the 48-52% range to act as something like a "regimental" certification) and that your crew is ready for more responsibility in upcoming matches -- and more challenge.

 

Sorry for the long response, this is stuff on my brain lately.  I plan on posting some guides soon, although before I do, I am thinking of asking for a few volunteers to vet my information, which is based primarily on my new way of playing and how it changes the nature of play in the first place.  It's nothing earth shaking, I promise, it's just not 'traditional' peer-gaming thinking when it comes to how to apply your self to the game.


 

Hope any of that was helpful, useful or remotely entertaining!


 

GL, HF & HSYBF!

 

Absolutely brilliant post. I don't disagree with anything really

 

I think the 50 percent threshold after 100 battles is a fair idea but...

 

Here's my conundrum. I've fought 230 battles in my KV1.

 

At battle 153 I peaked at 51.27% win rate. All my stats were improving. WOT life was good. The noob was learning how to play.

 

The last 80 games my win rate in this tank has steadily declined to where it currently resides at 46.05% - or 5%.

 

For the same period my damage done and experience as increased for all tanks but my win rate for all tanks has similarly declined, from 43% to 41.5%.

 

So you can see my frustration - from "I'm getting better!" to "I really do suck!"

 

I don't have any problem going back to lower tiers and mastering tanks at that level. Just not sure where to start.

 

My highest win rate in a tank approaching 100 games is my Tier II Pz II - about 60%.

 

I haven't done too bad in my Tier III T-15. Maybe that's my starting point...

 

Appreciate your feedback. I'm going to start another post to get additional feedback...

 


Edited by Cheesehead1964, Mar 22 2017 - 12:57.


da_Rock002 #34 Posted Mar 22 2017 - 13:36

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View PostCheesehead1964, on Mar 22 2017 - 06:55, said:

 

Absolutely brilliant post. I don't disagree with anything really

 

I think the 50 percent threshold after 100 battles is a fair idea but...

 

Here's my conundrum. I've fought 230 battles in my KV1.

 

At battle 153 I peaked at 51.27% win rate. All my stats were improving. WOT life was good. The noob was learning how to play.

 

The last 80 games my win rate in this tank has steadily declined to where it currently resides at 46.05% - or 5%.

 

For the same period my damage done and experience as increased for all tanks but my win rate for all tanks has similarly declined, from 43% to 41.5%.

 

So you can see my frustration - from "I'm getting better!" to "I really do suck!"

 

I don't have any problem going back to lower tiers and mastering tanks at that level. Just not sure where to start.

 

My highest win rate in a tank approaching 100 games is my Tier II Pz II - about 60%.

 

I haven't done too bad in my Tier III T-15. Maybe that's my starting point...

 

Appreciate your feedback. I'm going to start another post to get additional feedback...

 

 

So when the WR was moving up you were 'learning how to play' and when it steadily declined you were not?     What part of 'you don't control WR' is hard to realize.   Your performance improved as shown by your damage done and experience increasing, yet WR didn't.    

 

 

When you don't control something it's a lousy measure of your performance.   When you don't really control WR with your performance, then WR is a lousy measure of your performance.

 

 

You just clearly described WRs failure to follow your improvement.   Did you not listen to what you said?   Your improvement didn't affect it at all.    


 

Do we influence our WR?    Yes, but as almost completely un-skilled players, usually in the weakest tanks in the battle, we won't influence it very much at all.    Do we control it with our performance.   Not even close.        


 

Starting another thread to get more help with your WR is going to waste your time.    Starting them to get help with game details and ways to improve your influence...   is a better idea.



Cheesehead1964 #35 Posted Mar 22 2017 - 13:56

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View Postda_Rock002, on Mar 22 2017 - 13:36, said:

 

So when the WR was moving up you were 'learning how to play' and when it steadily declined you were not?     What part of 'you don't control WR' is hard to realize.   Your performance improved as shown by your damage done and experience increasing, yet WR didn't.    

 

 

When you don't control something it's a lousy measure of your performance.   When you don't really control WR with your performance, then WR is a lousy measure of your performance.

 

 

You just clearly described WRs failure to follow your improvement.   Did you not listen to what you said?   Your improvement didn't affect it at all.    


 

Do we influence our WR?    Yes, but as almost completely un-skilled players, usually in the weakest tanks in the battle, we won't influence it very much at all.    Do we control it with our performance.   Not even close.        


 

Starting another thread to get more help with your WR is going to waste your time.    Starting them to get help with game details and ways to improve your influence...   is a better idea.

 

Yeah I get it. Owl's point was exactly that and yours. Ignore WR and focus on improving. But he does use WR as a measure of when to move up to the next tank. Perhaps a better one is consistently dealing 100 percent damage of your hit point rate to your opponent.

 

The point of my other thread is to decide whether to move down a few tiers, not to argue the merits of WR. But I get your point.



da_Rock002 #36 Posted Mar 22 2017 - 14:44

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View PostCheesehead1964, on Mar 22 2017 - 07:56, said:

 

Yeah I get it. Owl's point was exactly that and yours. Ignore WR and focus on improving. But he does use WR as a measure of when to move up to the next tank. Perhaps a better one is consistently dealing 100 percent damage of your hit point rate to your opponent.

 

The point of my other thread is to decide whether to move down a few tiers, not to argue the merits of WR. But I get your point.

 

Your point in this thread wasn't the merits of WR.  

 

Owl's points are always good.   His use of WR as any kind of measure must surely be a slip.    :sceptic:   :B


 

I spent a morning recently logging rollover after stomping.   The impact of those WoT creations is going to do what to what?   Skew my WR?   What else?   Should I now move back to lower tiers?   Those 7 blowouts covered 3 tiers.   Should I avoid tier6, tier5 and tier4 battles now? 


 

Play the tanks you enjoy playing and work on everything you've got time to read up on and view youtubes about.    When you do turn a corner you'll feel it.   The specs won't suddenly jump. 



Hopping_Jalapeno #37 Posted Mar 22 2017 - 17:49

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View PostCheesehead1964, on Mar 22 2017 - 12:56, said:

 

Yeah I get it. Owl's point was exactly that and yours. Ignore WR and focus on improving. But he does use WR as a measure of when to move up to the next tank. Perhaps a better one is consistently dealing 100 percent damage of your hit point rate to your opponent.

 

The point of my other thread is to decide whether to move down a few tiers, not to argue the merits of WR. But I get your point.

 

That's kind of odd ... I move on to a different tank when I don't like it or find I'm ineffective in it regardless of WR and I'll keep playing in a tank I enjoy regardless of WR.

 



Toejamit #38 Posted Mar 22 2017 - 18:49

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Ive been playing for a year and a half..ive come to realize they are all about $$$$..so much that they will make these morons lose till they buy better tanks..not to mention they put any class of tank in with a mix of newbie tanks as long as u buy..ive spent money on this game only to realize in the end they dont give tp shts about players..no chat...nothing added with the the money they make..did my reasearch and its run in the U.S...your right im not happy..not to mention again how ypu have to buy everything.

GeorgePreddy #39 Posted Mar 22 2017 - 19:01

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View Postdunniteowl, on Mar 22 2017 - 03:14, said:

I think the biggest change was that I decided I was going to focus on playing and not blame anyone else or anything else for my performance.

 

I enjoyed your whole post... but the above sentence is what it all boils down to.

 

Don't pay any attention to tin-foil hat ideas and conspiracy theories and take personal responsibility for your own performance.

 

Bravo and plus 1.



bockscar43 #40 Posted Mar 22 2017 - 19:42

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View PostBall_Turret, on Mar 19 2017 - 19:21, said:

Of the recent match loses that keep growing more and more I have to ask when will the game start giving matches I can have a some what higher chance in winning? I'm tired of the +2 tier spread where I'm ALWAYS the bottom tier tank constantly facing more tier 5s and 6s than I would like and worst of all I'm tired of getting worthless team mates who fail to dish enough damage or simply don't know how to use their tank properly especially if their the high tier tanks on my team. This game will never give a chance to improve and learn from my mistakes since I get lemmings and tomatoes as teammates who end up getting clubbed by the enemy it seems the mm always puts me on the losing team more frequently then a winning team depending on team and tank structure how far must I fall to actually start enjoy this so called balanced game?

 

Prepare your self, it can go down hill fast. The game revolves around stats, there are those who believe the game is working as intended, and those who disagree, well they fall into the tin foil helmet class. You will have to decide whether to financially support the game. If you find game enjoyable then go with it if not you will leave being disappointed. Personally we find the game lacking and promises to be fulfilled far to distant in time.....just sayn.




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