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Since we are carrying on about the Defender...


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WhatsThisBoxFor #1 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 22:10

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...and it's oh so ridiculous alpha of 440, and WG want to get rid of pref MM prems, I have a great idea. For a new premium, take the tier 8 WZ-111 chassis, keep all of its stats the same, then give it the WZ-1-4s 130mm gun with slight gun handling and RoF nerfs. Then there will actually be a tier 9 at tier 8 :izmena:

 

In all seriousness this time though, perhaps for a non pref Chinese heavy premium, a half upgraded WZ-111-1-4 essentially. The stats of the WZ-111 tier 8 hull, but the IS-3 turret like the stock tier 9 WZ has, and the 110s 320 alpha gun, with similar RoF and handling.


Edited by WhatsThisBoxFor, Mar 20 2017 - 22:13.


_Tsavo #2 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 22:13

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I find the defender decidedly "meh" based on fighting it in pubs.  En masse it's a bit of a burden, but a close range brawl is it's death (dem cupolas) and the sides are EZPZ pen.  It's only been a real bastard of a tank when I'm taking it on in tier 6 and 7 tanks.

 

Is it strong?  Oh yes.  Indefatigable?  I think not.



WhatsThisBoxFor #3 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 22:14

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View Post_Tsavo, on Mar 20 2017 - 22:13, said:

I find the defender decidedly "meh" based on fighting it in pubs.  En masse it's a bit of a burden, but a close range brawl is it's death (dem cupolas) and the sides are EZPZ pen.

 

Is it strong?  Oh yes.  Indefatigable?  I think not.

Exactly



Maltfourti #4 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 22:15

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I seem to always meet them "en masse" tho... Seem to be the next-gen Type 59 situation.

Edited by Maltfourti, Mar 20 2017 - 22:16.


NiteDog #5 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 22:17

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View Post_Tsavo, on Mar 20 2017 - 13:13, said:

I find the defender decidedly "meh" based on fighting it in pubs.  En masse it's a bit of a burden, but a close range brawl is it's death (dem cupolas) and the sides are EZPZ pen.  It's only been a real bastard of a tank when I'm taking it on in tier 6 and 7 tanks.

 

Is it strong?  Oh yes.  Indefatigable?  I think not.

 

This!

CanOfTomatoes #6 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 22:18

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Time for an Abrams for all the old guys in the game...restricted to anyone over 55...with preferred MM

Scorpiany #7 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 22:18

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View Post_Tsavo, on Mar 20 2017 - 14:13, said:

I find the defender decidedly "meh" based on fighting it in pubs.  En masse it's a bit of a burden, but a close range brawl is it's death (dem cupolas) and the sides are EZPZ pen.  It's only been a real bastard of a tank when I'm taking it on in tier 6 and 7 tanks.

 

Is it strong?  Oh yes.  Indefatigable?  I think not.

 

Those cupolas can only be hit when you're face-hugging the vehicle. It's ridiculously difficult to hit them otherwise.

 

And the armor is stupidly hard for even Tier 10's to penetrate - If you angle the hull even slightly downwards, the entire front of the Defender, both upper plate and lower plate, become 280mm effective... Meaning even most Tier 10's will significantly struggle to penetrate it anywhere reliably with just the slightest downward angle if they shoot standard... And even if they load Premium ammunition, they're not guaranteed to pen anywhere.

 

It's game design which is absolutely, ridiculously bad.


Edited by Scorpiany, Mar 20 2017 - 23:03.


CanOfTomatoes #8 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 22:20

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View PostScorpiany, on Mar 20 2017 - 15:18, said:

 

Those cupolas can only be hit when you're face-hugging the vehicle. It's ridiculously difficult to hit them otherwise.

 

And the armor is stupidly hard for even Tier 10's to penetrate - If you angle the hull even slightly downwards, the entire front of the Defender, both upper plate and lower plate, become 280mm effective... Meaning not even Tier 10's can penetrate it anywhere frontally with just the slightlest downward angle.

 

It's game design which is absolutely, ridiculously bad.

 

Its a BIG hit on the RU server...that's all that matters it is not going to change...caused the RU boys to leave the old favorite the IS-3 for the new girl on the block.

_Tsavo #9 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 22:21

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View PostScorpiany, on Mar 20 2017 - 16:18, said:

 

Those cupolas can only be hit when you're face-hugging the vehicle. It's ridiculously difficult to hit them otherwise.

 

And the armor is stupidly hard for even Tier 10's to penetrate - If you angle the hull even slightly downwards, the entire front of the Defender, both upper plate and lower plate, become 280mm effective... Meaning not even Tier 10's can penetrate it anywhere frontally with just the slightlest downward angle.

 

It's game design which is absolutely, ridiculously bad.

 

I do my level best to engage them when it is an advantage to me and avoid them if they are in a strong position.

 

It is a strong vehicle, even OP in situations such as you presented no doubt.



Gothraul #10 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 22:24

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I wouldn't mind a 130mm on my IS-6 :popcorn:

Can I have a 15cm on my JT88?



WhatsThisBoxFor #11 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 22:25

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View PostGothraul, on Mar 20 2017 - 22:24, said:

I wouldn't mind a 130mm on my IS-6 :popcorn:

Can I have a 15cm on my JT88?

Well the JagdTiger H is getting the 490 alpha 128mm and it's coming "soon" so you can get an approximation.



WorldConqueror #12 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 22:26

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View PostScorpiany, on Mar 20 2017 - 22:18, said:

 

Those cupolas can only be hit when you're face-hugging the vehicle. It's ridiculously difficult to hit them otherwise.

 

And the armor is stupidly hard for even Tier 10's to penetrate - If you angle the hull even slightly downwards, the entire front of the Defender, both upper plate and lower plate, become 280mm effective... Meaning not even Tier 10's can penetrate it anywhere frontally with just the slightlest downward angle.

 

It's game design which is absolutely, ridiculously bad.

 

I..Is the 62A not a tier 10 any more??

 

Let's not get too hyperbolic.



ogermax #13 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 22:31

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The T34 has higher pen and only 40 less alpha,hull down its every bit as strong as the defender, folks dont complain about it. I do agree pointing the nose down does wonders but on the flip side it exposes the capolas.

CorradoG60 #14 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 22:32

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It's just the Type 59 syndrome. Once it's in game for a while it won't be so OP.

WorldConqueror #15 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 22:36

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View PostWhatsThisBoxFor, on Mar 20 2017 - 22:10, said:

In all seriousness this time though, perhaps for a non pref Chinese heavy premium, a half upgraded WZ-111-1-4 essentially. The stats of the WZ-111 tier 8 hull, but the IS-3 turret like the stock tier 9 WZ has, and the 110s 320 alpha gun, with similar RoF and handling.

 

Now you just need a flashy name and flashier paintjob Kappa.

spud_tuber #16 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 22:42

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View Postogermax, on Mar 20 2017 - 15:31, said:

The T34 has higher pen and only 40 less alpha,hull down its every bit as strong as the defender, folks dont complain about it. I do agree pointing the nose down does wonders but on the flip side it exposes the capolas.

T34 has worse gun handling, worse dpm, larger cupola, and an overmatchable roof.  In particular, its turret bloom is so bad that you have to stop wiggling it to aim much earlier than the 252, making its weak points even easier to hit.



Scorpiany #17 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 22:47

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View PostWorldConqueror, on Mar 20 2017 - 14:26, said:

 

Fake News Alert

 

 

280mm of armor is well above the average penetration of a T-62A.

 

You have a 30% chance of penning that plate... At best.

 

You set HEAT as the standard there for your "comparison". HEAT... On a Tier 10 tank... Aiming down at a Tier 8's pike nose... Only has a 75% chance to pen... The highest penetration shell available on a Tier 10 vehicle already known for having high penetration only has a "chance" to penetrate.

 

You must work for CNN or the Wall Street Journal with that amazing "research" and "factual presentation" of yours.


Edited by Scorpiany, Mar 20 2017 - 22:56.


Gothraul #18 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 22:54

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View Postogermax, on Mar 20 2017 - 22:31, said:

The T34 has higher pen and only 40 less alpha,hull down its every bit as strong as the defender, folks dont complain about it. I do agree pointing the nose down does wonders but on the flip side it exposes the capolas.

 

T34 is a relic and a struggle heavy that is in dire need of some buffs, also it doesn't have a B$ tier 9/10 quality hull.

HowitzerBlitzer #19 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 22:56

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View PostWorldConqueror, on Mar 20 2017 - 17:26, said:

 

I..Is the 62A not a tier 10 any more??

 

Spoiler

Let's not get too hyperbolic.

80% chance of a pen when the effective armor is about 15mm greater than the standard penetration value??

 



WorldConqueror #20 Posted Mar 20 2017 - 22:57

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View PostScorpiany, on Mar 20 2017 - 22:47, said:

 

280mm of armor is well above the average penetration of a T-62A.

 

You have a 30% chance of penning that plate.

 

You set HEAT as the standard there for your "comparison". HEAT... On a Tier 10 tank... Aiming down at a Tier 8's pike nose... Only has a 75% chance to pen... The highest penetration on a Tier 10 vehicle already known for high penetration already only has a "chance" to penetrate.

 

You must work for CNN or the Wall Street Journal with that amazing "research" and "factual presentation" of yours.

 

Did you specify standard ammo? No? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

Look dude maybe you should think before you post. In case you haven't noticed tomatoes love to latch on to anyone with half decent stats that somewhat agrees with whatever is their current flavour of the month gripe. So you coming in and saying 'angle it down and no tier 10 can pen it' is very quickly going to become the received wisdom around here if someone doesn't point it out. (BTW that pic was also for illustration that only at that absurb angle does the whole thing approach 280 effective). But "hey", maybe throw in "more" random bold and "quotemarks" to try and save your critical omission.


Edited by WorldConqueror, Mar 20 2017 - 23:00.





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