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Science question for smart people


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Oo_RNGesus_oO #41 Posted Mar 24 2017 - 21:18

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99.999% is a liability thing.

 

Scenario: Your at the grocery store and get a shopping cart. There is feces on the cart (how, you ask, you don't want to know)

You purchase your chips and dip for the WOT Arty grind your about to embark on. Then you need some hamburger. Grab the 

package and it's sticky. Grab the cart handle and you see where this is going.  Finally with the bio lab visit over you reach into

your wallet and pull out your germ and bacteria infested money (semen and more feces and some coke:ohmy:). Pay the nice cashier and go on your way.

 

On the way home you scratch your eye with your feces, semen & E coli hands.

 

Well your very diligent about being clean so you come in to your home and use your hand wipes.

 

You end up with your stomach wanting to jump out of your mouth and water running out your [edited].

 

The wipes just missed that .001% so you vomit and crapfor three days and can't sue

 

 



Oo_RNGesus_oO #42 Posted Mar 24 2017 - 21:37

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View PostCanadianGuitar, on Mar 22 2017 - 23:47, said:

 

I'm not really back. Just not doing so great IRL right now, decided to play some tanks to keep myself busy

 

Hope everything works out :honoring:

mattwong #43 Posted Mar 24 2017 - 22:52

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View PostKlaatu_Nicto, on Mar 24 2017 - 13:12, said:

The first time you tried this tactic I posted a picture of my college text books one of which was for the year long course in physics which, as you know, covers thermodynamics. And, you also know I used to work with scientists and engineers at Weyerhaeuser's R&D facility in Federal Way, Washington State.

 

You Mike are a fraud.

 

(sigh) Thermodynamics is an entire course unto itself.  You're claiming that you learned thermodynamics because you took a one year course that covered it in passing.  And you have certainly never demonstrated the slightest capacity to discuss the science of it.  Whenever I try to engage you on the actual physics of the theory, you start talking about the weather.


PS. Anybody who's ever had a job knows that when someone says he "worked with scientists and engineers", it means "I am not a scientist or an engineer".  Resume inflation: any adult knows how to recognize it.



mattwong #44 Posted Mar 24 2017 - 22:53

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The Internet: where ignorant people try to argue with an actual licensed engineer by saying "I worked with engineers, so I know better than you".

Oo_RNGesus_oO #45 Posted Mar 24 2017 - 23:53

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My Dad's a PH. D in Chemical Engineering. He says I suck at this game :justwait::honoring:

Markd73 #46 Posted May 24 2017 - 22:08

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View PostKlaatu_Nicto, on Mar 24 2017 - 18:12, said:

 

The first time you tried this tactic I posted a picture of my college text books one of which was for the year long course in physics which, as you know, covers thermodynamics. And, you also know I used to work with scientists and engineers at Weyerhaeuser's R&D facility in Federal Way, Washington State.

 

You Mike are a fraud.

 

 

 

 

Argument from Authority fallacy.

Nonamanadus #47 Posted May 24 2017 - 22:18

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Even though bacteria multiply quickly they have issues with addition and division. Apply the correct countermeasures.

riff_ #48 Posted May 24 2017 - 23:11

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View PostMad_Dog_Seabee, on Mar 22 2017 - 23:14, said:

What they don't let you know is that it is killing ALL GERMS, not just the bad ones. It is literally destroying even the good germs where you use the chemical. But then it's much like why NASA tends to keep secrets about random stuff orbiting the planet, because letting it be known will cause hysteria and panic, maybe not nearly as much as finding out we've had a satelite potetially foereign to Earth orbiting use since the 50s, but you get the jist.

 

All we need to do is build a whall around that foereign object.

Spoiler

 


Edited by riff_, May 24 2017 - 23:17.


Worland #49 Posted May 24 2017 - 23:48

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It's pretty easy. The original patent holder had certified labs determine which of the millions of known germs the chemical kills. Some germs will inevitably be impervious to the chemical.  That's where the percentage comes from.

Most end item manufacturers will just cite the original lab tests. But some of the major manufacturers will often carry out their own tests to ensure their product does meet the claim.

Klaatu_Nicto #50 Posted May 24 2017 - 23:52

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View Postriff_, on May 24 2017 - 14:11, said:

 

All we need to do is build a whall around that foereign object.

Spoiler

 

 

Did someone say wall?

 

Spoiler

 


Edited by Klaatu_Nicto, May 24 2017 - 23:58.


Khaleesi_2019 #51 Posted May 25 2017 - 01:04

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View Postbuttknuckle, on Mar 23 2017 - 02:57, said:

Well they probably start by hiring people to do the test that are smart enough to know that 99.999% means they killed all but 0.001%.

 

OMG I was going to post this exact same fact, but then i saw you beat me to it.  funny stuff :P

nuclearguy931 #52 Posted May 25 2017 - 01:16

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View PostMudman24, on Mar 22 2017 - 21:41, said:

How do you even do a test and find that you killed all the germs but .111% of them? The near mathematical impossibility of this makes my head hurt. Over 99.999%?

Spoiler

 

 

 

lol



riff_ #53 Posted May 25 2017 - 01:38

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View PostKlaatu_Nicto, on May 24 2017 - 17:52, said:

 

Did someone say wall?

 

Spoiler

 

 

Wall you say or I said, anyhoo.

 

 


Edited by riff_, May 25 2017 - 01:41.


nuclearguy931 #54 Posted May 25 2017 - 02:19

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View PostBigMeatHammer, on Mar 24 2017 - 15:18, said:

99.999% is a liability thing.

 

Scenario: Your at the grocery store and get a shopping cart. There is feces on the cart (how, you ask, you don't want to know)

You purchase your chips and dip for the WOT Arty grind your about to embark on. Then you need some hamburger. Grab the

package and it's sticky. Grab the cart handle and you see where this is going.  Finally with the bio lab visit over you reach into

your wallet and pull out your germ and bacteria infested money (semen and more feces and some coke:ohmy:). Pay the nice cashier and go on your way.

 

On the way home you scratch your eye with your feces, semen & E coli hands.

 

Well your very diligent about being clean so you come in to your home and use your hand wipes.

 

You end up with your stomach wanting to jump out of your mouth and water running out your [edited].

 

The wipes just missed that .001% so you vomit and crapfor three days and can't sue

 

 

 

 

Very well put my good man.....lol.



totensburntcorpse #55 Posted May 25 2017 - 02:46

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Ok

when u kill 99.999% of the germs that only leaves 0.001% alive not 0.111% else then you have the little critters giving 100.11% coach !!!

Also

it can be a liability thing because some say they ALSO kill virus's

 

Since these guys ONLY kill germs then its entirely possible that the telephone sanitizers get all the phones in the world but then everyone is wiped out by a particularly virulent form of ear virus that kills off the babel fish in your ear then proceeds to eat your brains to reproduce.  In my case if I was patient zero the thing would be avoided as the poor little suckers would starve to death. 

 

 



ExplodedChicken #56 Posted May 25 2017 - 20:52

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View PostDa_Vinci, on Mar 23 2017 - 04:06, said:

First of all, you didn't add correctly.

Secondly, what we scientists do is conduct experiments under controlled conditions. Make a procedure to test what you want.

 

To start:

1. Make a t0, this will be your control vial with all of the bacteria living.

2. Put your sanitizer into the vial with the bacteria.

3. Let the reaction of killing the bacteria run for a certain amount of time.

4. Run your sample in a machine. Something like an HPLC will do fine for organic material. Measure the amount of difference between the protein produced by the bacteria in your t0 and your new vial with the sanitizer.

5. Divide the concentration of protein in your test vial over the concentration of protein in your t0 (control vial).

 

That is how you find if it's 99.999% effective.

Companies like to exaggerate their figures, however, and back it up with only 1 or 2 trials out of maybe 50 (made up that number).

 

Hope that helps.

 

you are close.  I'm a chemist who has worked with biologists and has had a med lab tech as an ex.  I believe that the trick is to sample the surface, and then do a culture counting 'colony forming units' on a plate.  the agar plate acts as a magnifier of sorts, so if you know how fast the bacteria will grow in ideal conditions, (Such as replicating every 20 minutes), So, if you know the original surface had a density of 1,000,000 bacteria per mm2 (microscope or similar method), then treat the surface, then swab the surface and count colony forming units) then you can get this number.  If you swab the surface, and get 10 colony forming units, then the 'left alive' rate is 0.001%,and the kill rate is 99.999%.

 

If there's any practicing microbiologist browsing around, I'm sure they can take it the rest of the way to a perfect explanation.



Klaatu_Nicto #57 Posted May 25 2017 - 21:22

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View PostMarkd73, on May 24 2017 - 13:08, said:

 

Argument from Authority fallacy.

 

In case you missed it a couple of years ago, Mike, AKA Mattwong, stated he is the only person on this forum who has the background and intelligence necessary to understand science related issues.

Red_Ensign #58 Posted May 25 2017 - 21:40

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View PostMudman24, on Mar 22 2017 - 20:41, said:

How do you even do a test and find that you killed all the germs but .111% of them?

 

.001

Red_Ensign #59 Posted May 25 2017 - 21:41

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View PostBigMeatHammer, on Mar 24 2017 - 14:18, said:

 

On the way home you scratch your eye with your feces, semen & E coli hands.

 

jesus, where are you coming home from?

Klaatu_Nicto #60 Posted May 25 2017 - 21:47

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The most germ laden items in your home.

 

Spoiler

 






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