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The BC 12T is worse than a tier 7 LT?! AND ITS AT TIER 8!


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Crabybaby #1 Posted Mar 31 2017 - 01:38

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Got on the test server to look at the stats of the LT's to see if the French LT's were buffed since the sandbox... sadly, especially in the case of the BC 12T, they were not.  In fact, as I was looking over the BC 12T's gun stats, I noticed that its 75mm auto-loader was oddly similar to that on another tank which I had previously played... the T71.  While both tanks have 20 second reloads for their magazines and 2 seconds between each shot, there is one, very dramatic difference: the BC 12T has two less shells.  TWO WHOLE SHELLS.  I get that the BC has better penetration and 0.01 better accuracy, but having only 2/3 of the clip of a tank that is one tier lower while retaining the same reload is just a HORRIBLE decision.  Not only that, but you are going to have to play this tank a TON if you want to get all of the high tier French lights and mediums, which I doubt many will do if it stays like this.  I wont go into too much detail about the other French LT's, but they suffer very similarly to the BC (20+sec reloads for abysmally less damage output than tanks of the same and lower tiers).

 

On another note, will we be compensated for modules we researched that are being removed from light tanks?  For example, the 100mm gun the WZ131 used to have was (understandably) removed, but despite the fact that I already had it researched on the WZ131, it wasn't researched on the WZ132, although it could just be a bug



Gothraul #2 Posted Mar 31 2017 - 01:45

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I like it a lot more than I do the new turd that got slotted in at tier 8 in the German tree, for the BC 12T I have found that like the current 13 90 one is better off apcr spamming because of all the usual things.

jimbiss #3 Posted Apr 01 2017 - 20:11

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BC12t does need buffed

Rakkedyman #4 Posted Apr 01 2017 - 22:43

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It feels really weak, yeah. And a twenty-second reload for four shots is painful.

8bit_Gamer #5 Posted Apr 01 2017 - 22:48

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View PostRakkedyman, on Apr 01 2017 - 21:43, said:

It feels really weak, yeah. And a twenty-second reload for four shots is painful.

 

Isn't that the same as the T69, tier 8 American medium? That only has 4 shells per clip.



HyP3rN0va #6 Posted Apr 02 2017 - 07:31

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View Post8bit_Gamer, on Apr 01 2017 - 16:48, said:

 

Isn't that the same as the T69, tier 8 American medium? That only has 4 shells per clip.

 

The t69 has a 90mm, better pen, and better DPM than the BC-12 t, so its not as bad.

Quigley66 #7 Posted Apr 26 2017 - 15:08

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Its a light tank, and has the best camo on tier 8 while on the move, as good as most of the tier 9's. Its designed to scout, not be a medium damage doer. This is the direction WGamings   made in all light tanks, be scouts, not meds. Its a good tank its not a previous 1390 by design. Still the best patch in a long time. 

stalkervision #8 Posted Apr 26 2017 - 16:04

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Just a question on the luch's. I never used the autoloader but tried it post patch. Did they decrease the ammo in the clip? :unsure:

Mikosah #9 Posted Apr 26 2017 - 19:16

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The more I think about it, the more I think that the entire set of tier 8 lights are very unlucky in the meta. They'll be expected to scout in tier 9-10 games, but will have inferior view range to most other tanks in those matchups. When top-tier, they may be able to out-spot some tanks in some circumstances, but being top-tier they'll be expected to pull their weight in combat and even at this task their relevance is questionable. Imagine for instance getting yolo-rushed by a Cromwell. He'll basically have as much DPM as you do and enough speed to keep up with you. If he decides that he's going to trade all his health for yours, what could you do to stop him? 

 

As for the BC12t in particular, the same basic logic applies. Having a burst of 4x170 damage isn't bad in itself, but 20 seconds to reload is excessive. Having 380 meters of view range doesn't cut the mustard when tiers below you can match it, and tiers above you flat out beat it. For a medium, that would be acceptable. Not for a light. Camo advantage alone is not enough to be worth the risk of forward spotting positions. Given the current situation, I'd play the BC12t as a flanking medium whenever possible. If WG wants me to play it like a light tank, they ought to consider giving it the vision it needs.



Rakkedyman #10 Posted Apr 27 2017 - 04:11

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View Poststalkervision, on Apr 26 2017 - 10:04, said:

Just a question on the luch's. I never used the autoloader but tried it post patch. Did they decrease the ammo in the clip? :unsure:

 

No, it's still 8 with the stock turret and 10 with the top turret. The only change was that it can no longer see Tier VIIs.



Macras #11 Posted Apr 30 2017 - 03:28

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IDK about the stats.  I do fairly well in the French lights, although I do play them more conservatively, because they are more fragile than others I play. ( I don't have great crews or spam gold all day, so no unhelpful comments on my stats)


 

I believe people need to re think what the light tanks are and do now, they are no longer just straight scouts. Scouting is part of it, and although I see plenty of them camping the back line till late game I don't think that's the best way to play them either.

Surviving is important, but you still need to be active all game. spot a flank, track a tank or two as they try and push, finish of low HP tanks so they are out of the game all viable. Try and hold middle ground for the full game and expect the TD's and arty to keep you alive, neh.


 

Certainly some of them need some rebalancing, and ATM I think some mediums and even heavies are getting screwed over by some of the new lights. But I would also not like to see all the tanks in the game have the same stats and attributes!


 

Variety, different tanks in different teams and try and find a way of making it work.


 

The new MM system may not be perfect, but at least its a change, we have had some different match up since its release and I think that is good.


 

More variety, not less is my vote.



Tahllol #12 Posted Apr 30 2017 - 05:43

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View PostCrabybaby, on Mar 31 2017 - 01:38, said:

Got on the test server to look at the stats of the LT's to see if the French LT's were buffed since the sandbox... sadly, especially in the case of the BC 12T, they were not.  In fact, as I was looking over the BC 12T's gun stats, I noticed that its 75mm auto-loader was oddly similar to that on another tank which I had previously played... the T71.  While both tanks have 20 second reloads for their magazines and 2 seconds between each shot, there is one, very dramatic difference: the BC 12T has two less shells.  TWO WHOLE SHELLS.  I get that the BC has better penetration and 0.01 better accuracy, but having only 2/3 of the clip of a tank that is one tier lower while retaining the same reload is just a HORRIBLE decision.  Not only that, but you are going to have to play this tank a TON if you want to get all of the high tier French lights and mediums, which I doubt many will do if it stays like this.  I wont go into too much detail about the other French LT's, but they suffer very similarly to the BC (20+sec reloads for abysmally less damage output than tanks of the same and lower tiers).

 

On another note, will we be compensated for modules we researched that are being removed from light tanks?  For example, the 100mm gun the WZ131 used to have was (understandably) removed, but despite the fact that I already had it researched on the WZ131, it wasn't researched on the WZ132, although it could just be a bug

 

So what you are saying is nerf all the Lights down a bit. Got it please WG make it so. Cut their pen and damage output by 50% so they are not out damaging every other tank in their respective tiers.

Edited by Tahllol, Apr 30 2017 - 05:43.


Schozzbot #13 Posted Jul 01 2017 - 00:06

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I am now 0-10 in this new and improved 12 t.

 

I want my old reliable one back!



Sam_Sanister #14 Posted Jul 01 2017 - 00:30

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I haven't played many random battles in the Batchat 12 T, but I do like its mobility.
Since it's an autoloader, the gun rammer is unavailable (few autoloaders can mount rammers).
This frees up an equipment slot, so you can use VSTAB, Vents, and your choice of Optics or Binocs. (unlike scouts that need Rammer+VSTAB, then either optics or vents)
(another good thing is French scouts can use VSTABs now)

Schozzbot #15 Posted Jul 01 2017 - 00:46

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Well, I played a game in my little old 12t and it was marvelous - I can't come to grips with the B-C version though.

 

(As you can probably tell, it's been a long while since I've played)

 

 

 



Postal_Monkey #16 Posted Jul 01 2017 - 05:43

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View PostSchozzbot, on Jun 30 2017 - 18:46, said:

Well, I played a game in my little old 12t and it was marvelous - I can't come to grips with the B-C version though.

 

(As you can probably tell, it's been a long while since I've played)

 

 

 

 

The BC 12t isn't a 'version', its the tier VIII

The AMX 12t is still in the game, it's still tier VI



Tahllol #17 Posted Jul 04 2017 - 16:10

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lights are not supposed to be gods running around penning everything like they currently are. Besides autoloaders should have massive reload times or huge times between shots. Since manual loaders got increased by 3-4x the true reload times between shots they should do the same to autoloaders. I.E. autoloaders were 7-8 seconds between shots which means they should be changed to 20+ seconds between shots or lower the manual loaders to the correct times of 3-4 seconds.

 

When an autoloader can run around and kill most tanks of its tier or close to it in seconds and than just run away due to speed it needs nerfed.






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