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Platooning with Arty

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Captain_Crit #1 Posted Apr 08 2017 - 19:43

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I don't really play arty outside of those campaign missions but my buddy plays it all the time.  With the new platooning rule where we can no long platoon together (me in a tank and him in a SPG), he will likely quit the game.  If he quits that hurts my interest in the game, although I will plan to continue on.  So that is my major concern of the patch changes to the public test.  I am OK with no 3 arty platoons, in fact that sounds like a good idea, but I would still like to be able to play with my friend who plays arty exclusively. 

OseanTanker #2 Posted Apr 08 2017 - 20:00

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You won't be able to platoon SPGs together. You can still platoon and SPG with any other tank.

Fafnir_6 #3 Posted Apr 08 2017 - 20:05

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(First post here - long-time lurker)

 

+1 to the OP

 

I don't play arty much myself.  I also rarely play the game without being in a platoon with my lady wife.  She has dabbled in the other classes but she is definitely an arty main.  We've been following the 9.18 changes with interest and were generally hopeful despite the nerfs coming to arty.  This platooning announcement changes all that :(.  Like the OP, we fully agree that platoons with 2 or 3 artys should be not allowed, but 1 should be allowed per platoon just so those players can also partake of the shared experience of playing WoT with your friends.  The logic behind the decision to ban all arty from platoons is fundamentally flawed: "The other frustrating issue was frequent cases of arty giving its all to support fellow Platoon-members and totally neglecting the rest of the team.​" - from https://ritastatusre...o-patch-notes/​ As if players in platoons in any other class of tanks don't do the same. The complete ban is a very bad decision.  I hope it doesn't make it to the live server.  If it does, I doubt we'll be online much, post-patch.  I certainly won't be investing in my WoT experience any further monetarily (and I've spent a fair amount on this game).  I know I'm not alone in this, talking to many of the other people I know who play this game. WG was on a good track with the changes to arty until this.  Please allow one arty per platoon in random battles.

 

Thank you,

 

Fafnir_6

 


Edited by Fafnir_6, Apr 08 2017 - 20:15.


Fafnir_6 #4 Posted Apr 08 2017 - 20:07

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View PostOseanTanker, on Apr 08 2017 - 20:00, said:

You won't be able to platoon SPGs together. You can still platoon and SPG with any other tank.

 

That's not the way I read this...   "we decided to stop SPGs from forming and joining Dynamic and regular Platoons."  from https://ritastatusre...ro-patch-notes/

 

:(

 

Perhaps it is just a translation error...hopefully.

 

Fafnir_6


Edited by Fafnir_6, Apr 08 2017 - 20:08.


RolandTGunner #5 Posted Apr 08 2017 - 20:08

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Yep, of all the proposed changes to arty this one bothers me the most.

I get it that they want to avoid platoons of arty being top tier or Bert/Lefeh platoons stunning everyone the whole game but to restrict arty platooning completely doesn't leave much reason to play arty at all anymore.

(yeah, I know "Good!" "Remove sky cancer from the game!" etc. etc. etc.)

 

If they're going to change arty platooning rules they should just restrict it to one arty per platoon.

 

I have a feeling this change has more to do with the way the new matchmaker is going to work than it does "arty only supports their friends"....

 

Imho, there's at least one faction of WG who really does want to remove arty completely from the game but they don't want to deal with the compensation issues that would create. So the short term solution is just to change arty enough so it's less fun to play and the problem will solve itself.

Also, imho, I think people are going to find that having less/no arty in the game isn't going to suddenly make the game as much more fun as they think.

 

Whatever happens it's all being driven by the desire for profit 'cause that's why WG is in business! :)

 


Edited by RolandTGunner, Apr 08 2017 - 20:10.


Fafnir_6 #6 Posted Apr 08 2017 - 20:13

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View PostRolandTGunner, on Apr 08 2017 - 20:08, said:

Yep, of all the proposed changes to arty this one bothers me the most.

I get it that they want to avoid platoons of arty being top tier or Bert/Lefeh platoons stunning everyone the whole game but to restrict arty platooning completely doesn't leave much reason to play arty at all anymore.

(yeah, I know "Good!" "Remove sky cancer from the game!" etc. etc. etc.)

 

If they're going to change arty platooning rules they should just restrict it to one arty per platoon.

 

I have a feeling this change has more to do with the way the new matchmaker is going to work than it does "arty only supports their friends"....

 

Imho, there's at least one faction of WG who really does want to remove arty completely from the game but they don't want to deal with the compensation issues that would create. So the short term solution is just to change arty enough so it's less fun to play and the problem will solve itself.

Also, imho, I think people are going to find that having less/no arty in the game isn't going to suddenly make the game as much more fun as they think.

 

Whatever happens it's all being driven by the desire for profit 'cause that's why WG is in business! :)

 

 

...Which is weird because the people whining about arty won't be spending any more on the game while those of us that use arty or platoon with people who use arty may be much less inclined to play, and by extension, pay for World of Tanks. 

It's a bad change from a financial standpoint and doesn't avoid the compensation issue either if they decide to remove arty completely.

 

Fafnir_6



Captain_Crit #7 Posted Apr 08 2017 - 23:35

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View PostFafnir_6, on Apr 08 2017 - 19:07, said:

 

That's not the way I read this...   "we decided to stop SPGs from forming and joining Dynamic and regular Platoons."  from https://ritastatusre...ro-patch-notes/

 

:(

 

Perhaps it is just a translation error...hopefully.

 

Fafnir_6

 

I read it the same way unfortunately.

Mudman24 #8 Posted Apr 08 2017 - 23:40

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Why can't your friend platoon with you in one of the other classes?

madogthefirst #9 Posted Apr 08 2017 - 23:43

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View PostMudman24, on Apr 08 2017 - 14:40, said:

Why can't your friend platoon with you in one of the other classes?

Well mine has only one arm.



Mudman24 #10 Posted Apr 08 2017 - 23:45

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View Postmadogthefirst, on Apr 08 2017 - 16:43, said:

Well mine has only one arm.

That makes sense. 



Captain_Crit #11 Posted Apr 09 2017 - 00:52

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View PostMudman24, on Apr 08 2017 - 22:40, said:

Why can't your friend platoon with you in one of the other classes?

 

He tried it and did not care for it.  I think that arty has a place in this game, I like the proposed changes for it except I think there is too much splash radius.   When I read the bit on platooning that got me sad doggin' because it meant a friend of mine would no longer be interested in the game.

OseanTanker #12 Posted Apr 09 2017 - 17:49

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View PostFafnir_6, on Apr 08 2017 - 13:07, said:

po

 

:(

 

Perhaps it is just a translation error...hopefully.

 

Fafnir_6

 

Upon reading that again, I think that I was wrong... I really hope that this isn't the case. Limit the amount of arty in a platoon, don't eliminate it all together. That is just stupid.

Preddy_ #13 Posted Apr 09 2017 - 21:13

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Arty is funny...

VooDooKobra #14 Posted Apr 09 2017 - 21:21

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View PostOseanTanker, on Apr 08 2017 - 12:00, said:

You won't be able to platoon SPGs together. You can still platoon and SPG with any other tank.

 

No artillery in Platoons. You were vocal about mismatched scenarios, when a Platoon of three SPGs was placed at the top of the list and the team ended up with three long-range support fire vehicles as their main strength. The other frustrating issue was frequent cases of arty giving its all to support fellow Platoon-members and totally neglecting the rest of the team. To eliminate both problems, we decided to stop SPGs from forming and joining Dynamic and regular Platoons. Removing the option to play in Platoons should facilitate team cooperation and aid the matchmaker in creating balanced teams. Individual Battle Missions were updated accordingly. We removed Platoons from their conditions.

 

the way I read this line is they don't want arty platooning with anyone, removing team play to try and make team play in pub matches.  I couldn't make anything that stupid up

 

I hope they have a plan to get someone who can play only arty into the same game with their friends

 


Edited by VooDooKobra, Apr 09 2017 - 21:22.


caramel #15 Posted Apr 09 2017 - 21:56

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View PostFafnir_6, on Apr 08 2017 - 11:13, said:

 

...Which is weird because the people whining about arty won't be spending any more on the game while those of us that use arty or platoon with people who use arty may be much less inclined to play, and by extension, pay for World of Tanks. 

It's a bad change from a financial standpoint and doesn't avoid the compensation issue either if they decide to remove arty completely.

 

Fafnir_6

 

The only arty they'd have to compensate monetarily are the Lefeh and the Sexton 1, which are premium. Otherwise they could just give a bunch of converted free XP and be done with it.

 

As for people who platoon and play arty being a financial loss or gain vs those who complain about arty is impossible ot judge by our side without detailed financial analysis and numbers, you're talking out of your [edited]with that one. But if we're going by your logic, and its by people who vote with their wallets, my voice is much louder then yours given your lack of premiums vs all the ones I've bought, is that really how you want things to play out?



Fafnir_6 #16 Posted Apr 10 2017 - 02:54

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View Postcaramel, on Apr 09 2017 - 21:56, said:

 

The only arty they'd have to compensate monetarily are the Lefeh and the Sexton 1, which are premium. Otherwise they could just give a bunch of converted free XP and be done with it.

 

As for people who platoon and play arty being a financial loss or gain vs those who complain about arty is impossible ot judge by our side without detailed financial analysis and numbers, you're talking out of your [edited]with that one. But if we're going by your logic, and its by people who vote with their wallets, my voice is much louder then yours given your lack of premiums vs all the ones I've bought, is that really how you want things to play out?

 

I HAVE bought premiums though.  To the tune of $250-300 CDN for my account.  I would class myself as generally a casual player that enjoys the game enough to spend a bit on it.  And that's my point.  I may not be a pro WoT player who buys everything but this change to the ability of single SPGs to platoon will alienate many people like me.  Don't kid yourself, there are a lot of us.  Just about all the WoT friends I have are like that.  This is one of the features of the free-to-play model.  Alienating us will result in a financial loss for WG through the loss of players like myself and my friends, for what seems like an un-needed and petty penalization to all SPG players.  I ask you, do you really want to ban the ability of SINGLE SPGs to platoon with other classes of tanks?   I get that SPGs needed to be changed.  I've been one-shot by arties too and it sucks. Double or triple Fifi and FV304 platoons suck as well.  They need to be removed.  Even my wife the arty player also wishes the SPGs were less RNG and more skill-dependent and groans everytime we get on a server with 4+ arties per team.  Up until this micropatch We were both quite hopeful for the changes they were making.  I just don't think the complete restriction on single SPGs platooning is fair. I hope you will see that too.

 

Cheers,

 

Fafnir_6

 

 


Edited by Fafnir_6, Apr 10 2017 - 02:57.


caramel #17 Posted Apr 12 2017 - 13:23

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View PostFafnir_6, on Apr 09 2017 - 17:54, said:

 

I HAVE bought premiums though.  To the tune of $250-300 CDN for my account.  I would class myself as generally a casual player that enjoys the game enough to spend a bit on it.  And that's my point.  I may not be a pro WoT player who buys everything but this change to the ability of single SPGs to platoon will alienate many people like me.  Don't kid yourself, there are a lot of us.  Just about all the WoT friends I have are like that.  This is one of the features of the free-to-play model.  Alienating us will result in a financial loss for WG through the loss of players like myself and my friends, for what seems like an un-needed and petty penalization to all SPG players.  I ask you, do you really want to ban the ability of SINGLE SPGs to platoon with other classes of tanks?   I get that SPGs needed to be changed.  I've been one-shot by arties too and it sucks. Double or triple Fifi and FV304 platoons suck as well.  They need to be removed.  Even my wife the arty player also wishes the SPGs were less RNG and more skill-dependent and groans everytime we get on a server with 4+ arties per team.  Up until this micropatch We were both quite hopeful for the changes they were making.  I just don't think the complete restriction on single SPGs platooning is fair. I hope you will see that too.

 

Cheers,

 

Fafnir_6

 

 

 

I've spent in the realm of several thousand, and I only play a couple of games a month, infact I just bought the Mutant 6, the Lorrain 40T, and strv this past two weeks. That's, what, 200 USD roughly?  I may be more of the exception with money to burn and more or less being a collector, but my point is. For everyone one of you, theirs one of me, and if we've got people voting by their wallets, well, me vs you in this particular example, I regularly buy the new tanks that come out just to own them, I don't like the arty, you occasionally maybe buy something new, but like arty. From the prospect of the business, who looks like the more valuable customer to entertain and keep around? Theirs a couple of you, but as I said , for every one person that likes arty, theirs one that doesn't.

 

Do I want them to ban arty platooning with other players? Nah, I want it gone entirely, but well. We can't always get what we want, I don't play arty, none of my friends play arty, most of us don't like or want arty in the game, so this change doesn't really bother me or them, I'm afraid {and said other friends are just like me, spending a fair amount of income on this game.}



Fafnir_6 #18 Posted Apr 12 2017 - 22:30

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View Postcaramel, on Apr 12 2017 - 13:23, said:

 

I've spent in the realm of several thousand, and I only play a couple of games a month, infact I just bought the Mutant 6, the Lorrain 40T, and strv this past two weeks. That's, what, 200 USD roughly?  I may be more of the exception with money to burn and more or less being a collector, but my point is. For everyone one of you, theirs one of me, and if we've got people voting by their wallets, well, me vs you in this particular example, I regularly buy the new tanks that come out just to own them, I don't like the arty, you occasionally maybe buy something new, but like arty. From the prospect of the business, who looks like the more valuable customer to entertain and keep around? Theirs a couple of you, but as I said , for every one person that likes arty, theirs one that doesn't.

 

Do I want them to ban arty platooning with other players? Nah, I want it gone entirely, but well. We can't always get what we want, I don't play arty, none of my friends play arty, most of us don't like or want arty in the game, so this change doesn't really bother me or them, I'm afraid {and said other friends are just like me, spending a fair amount of income on this game.}

 

Wow!  That's insan...I mean impressive.  You certainly have been a great customer for Wargaming.  I also think that sort of expenditure makes you a pretty far outlier on the "dollars spent per account" axis of WG's sales graph.  Because of this I take exception to the comment that for every user such as yourself, there is one like me.  That's just not possible given the average amount that gamers as a whole, are willing spend on a single game.  That's especially true of a free-to-play game like WoT.  There's a very large number of accounts that are simply that, free-to-play.  There's also a large number of accounts where the user spends a few of their hard-earned dollars on the game (like me).  There remains a much smaller number of accounts of those such as yourself, who either have a lot of disposable income and/or boundless enthusiasm for the game and spend a ton on it.  WG would have the actual sales data describing this (it would be interesting if they ever published it) but I don't think they can easily afford to alienate large numbers of the free-to-play or pay-a-bit-to-play users in favor of a few monetary or skilled elites.  After all, we all started as free-to-play noobs when we started playing WoT.  It is important for the continued longevity of the game for the devs to cater to the desires of those players as well as the elites, in order for new elite players to keep emerging.  The game will just die otherwise.  Obviously, the best approach is to keep the free-to-players, pay-a-bit-to-players and the elite players all happy.   I think that the 9.18 arty changes will help achieve that, WITH THE EXCEPTION of the ban on single artys platooning. That will alienate many players.  And it's such an easy thing to fix. 

 

So I ask you again... Is banning the ability of single artys to platoon a good and fair idea?  I know you wish for arty to be removed, so you may wish for the ban to help drive the class into oblivion.  But is it a good and fair decision given the current presence of arty in the game?  You could try playing artillery too.  I've often found that trying to see arguments from both sides helps me find the clearest conclusions.  Plus there are two premiums you could get for your collection!

 

Cheers,

 

Fafnir_6


Edited by Fafnir_6, Apr 12 2017 - 22:35.


MMs_Revenge #19 Posted Apr 13 2017 - 17:54

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Why limit spg, a tank like any other plus its worst off. Can't maneuver to save itself. Maybe make MM harder but that's the platoon's problem not yours. If u limit us it is only right you forbid any other kind of tank platoon. I play art for my lack of fast reflexes so you punish me for my disability. Is that how wargaming treats people with disabilities. Ruins their tank class?

caramel #20 Posted Apr 14 2017 - 02:06

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View PostFafnir_6, on Apr 12 2017 - 13:30, said:

 

Wow!  That's insan...I mean impressive.  You certainly have been a great customer for Wargaming.  I also think that sort of expenditure makes you a pretty far outlier on the "dollars spent per account" axis of WG's sales graph.  Because of this I take exception to the comment that for every user such as yourself, there is one like me.  That's just not possible given the average amount that gamers as a whole, are willing spend on a single game.  That's especially true of a free-to-play game like WoT.  There's a very large number of accounts that are simply that, free-to-play.  There's also a large number of accounts where the user spends a few of their hard-earned dollars on the game (like me).  There remains a much smaller number of accounts of those such as yourself, who either have a lot of disposable income and/or boundless enthusiasm for the game and spend a ton on it.  WG would have the actual sales data describing this (it would be interesting if they ever published it) but I don't think they can easily afford to alienate large numbers of the free-to-play or pay-a-bit-to-play users in favor of a few monetary or skilled elites.  After all, we all started as free-to-play noobs when we started playing WoT.  It is important for the continued longevity of the game for the devs to cater to the desires of those players as well as the elites, in order for new elite players to keep emerging.  The game will just die otherwise.  Obviously, the best approach is to keep the free-to-players, pay-a-bit-to-players and the elite players all happy.   I think that the 9.18 arty changes will help achieve that, WITH THE EXCEPTION of the ban on single artys platooning. That will alienate many players.  And it's such an easy thing to fix. 

 

So I ask you again... Is banning the ability of single artys to platoon a good and fair idea?  I know you wish for arty to be removed, so you may wish for the ban to help drive the class into oblivion.  But is it a good and fair decision given the current presence of arty in the game?  You could try playing artillery too.  I've often found that trying to see arguments from both sides helps me find the clearest conclusions.  Plus there are two premiums you could get for your collection!

 

Cheers,

 

Fafnir_6

 

Again, my point was never weather banning artillery was the right or wrong choice {personally, I don't care for arty, I dont want it in the game, but until its removal I'll continue to tolerate its existence, annoying as it might be to me} and the banning of arty from platoon just seems arbitrary and odd, though I think I see the reasoning in it (They want to stop 3 man arty platoons at top tier) but can't seem to figure out how to implement a "one tank limit" or something, my point is we should not have WG taking votes based on the amount people have spent on this game, think of the amount of voice that would lend to folks like me {And for the record, I have a set entertainment budget per month, and sometimes I dip into my credit for it which I'm trying to build up anyways, but otherwise I'm just a tank collector}; as far as their internal records, I already mentioned that.

 

Oh, and as  a side. I do play arty from time to time, I still stand by my stances on it; and the M44 SPG, which I am quite fond of loading heat and ruining SOMEONES day {mine or someone elses} only solidifies my views on arty on the whole. Will these stun changes be good or bad/ I can't say for certain until it goes live, I dread the idea of it, though I'm all for reduced damage, slightly increased fire rates and aim times, though personally I'd like to get rid of satellite view on arty, make them do some guess work, but eh. S'just what it is there. (Also, I have the Sexton 1. The LEFEH never seems to come on sale when I have time or money for it lol).







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