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Are You Happy With the Current 9.18 Light Tanks?

9.18

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Poll: What are your current opinions on light tanks? (159 members have cast votes)

Was the light tank view range nerf good?

  1. Yes, the fact that they can see me camping at the back of the map is very bad for gameplay (5 votes [3.14%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.14%

  2. Yes, they were too strong in spotting. It is now balanced that meds can scout the same distances (7 votes [4.40%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.40%

  3. No, light tanks were fine as they were. (139 votes [87.42%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 87.42%

  4. Bacon-choice usually gets at least a few takers (5 votes [3.14%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.14%

  5. Light tank were just out-performing other classes. (expound in comments) (3 votes [1.89%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 1.89%

Was the nerf to light tank guns good for gameplay?

  1. Yes, light tanks were too op with their abysmal accuracy, low pen, and meh dpm. Also 390 alpha at tier 10 is too much (18 votes [11.32%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.32%

  2. Light tanks were fine as they were. (130 votes [81.76%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 81.76%

  3. Bacon-choice usually gets at least a few takers (7 votes [4.40%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.40%

  4. Light tank were just out-performing other classes. (expound in comments) (4 votes [2.52%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.52%

Were the changes to the tier 7-8 lights good?

  1. Yes, now I don't need as much situational awareness to see imminent flanking threats. (6 votes [3.77%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.77%

  2. Yes, Ru251 was op af (4 votes [2.52%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.52%

  3. No, lights were fine as they were (130 votes [81.76%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 81.76%

  4. Bacon-choice usually gets at least a few takers (15 votes [9.43%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.43%

  5. Light tank were just out-performing other classes. (expound in comments) (4 votes [2.52%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.52%

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Spartan_Striker #1 Posted Apr 09 2017 - 14:45

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I used to look forward to  9.18 thinking "Wow, light tank revamp!!! Can't WAIT for this patch to go live."

Now I think: "9.18: The destruction of light tanks. Why Wargaming."

 

Take this quick poll and let Wargaming know that they messed up terribly.

 

 

 

Please read my reasoning for the terrible 9.18 light tanks before voting, as it will give insight into why 9.18 lights are now bad.

Feel free to list your reasoning why light tanks DID need the nerfs

 

  • If tier 8 lights move to tier 9, the tier 7's need to be able to fill their shoes in cw/strongholds/advances.

                       They can't at all with abysmal view range and no-pen pewpew guns. On top of that, they got nerfed instead of buffed. Logical?

 

 

 

  • Nerfs across the board-   Why Wargaming? They were fine as they were. They had dpm that can't compete with tier 10 meds.

                     They didn't have the pen to, and were too inaccurate to snipe. Gold rounds didn't offer any significant upgrade to penetration.

                     They don't have armor or the hp to brawl in any kind of way.        They were not a threat to tier 10 meds.

               

                    They were simply a reminder to meds that they need to watch their backs more instead of plowing non-stop through ht's and it's alike.

                    Light tanks NEED good guns to contribute meaningfully in a battle.

 

 

 

  • Wargaming shooting themselves in the foot.

                     Ah so... Lights are meant for spotting, isn't that right Wargaming? Then why did you nerf the dang view range also??

                     Once again tier 10 meds now trump lights even in spotting.

 

                     Mediums can go aggressive and have the firepower/armor/hp to stay alive in a stiff place.

                     Not only that, but now with the view range nerfs to light tanks, many meds STILL have more view range than tier 10 lights.

 

                   How Wargaming, is this logical at all. Mediums having more view range than scouts is stupid. Period.

 

 

 

  • Wargaming continually states that "light tanks should not be doing actual combat etc. etc"

                   

                      So lights are supposed to only scout, right Wg? So what am I supposed to do on Pilsen or Kharkov?

 

                       All the OTHER city maps that make up 80% of the map rotation?

                      Scouts are only useful for spotting on lakeville, malinovka, prok, and steppes.

                      What am I supposed to do on himmelsdorf?

                      Once again I am stuck getting stomped by meds.

                      I am forced to cower behind my meds and hope to sneak in the occasional shot here and there.

 

 

 

  • ​What a light tank is thinking in battle...

                      "Ok so- in a tier 10 game, with a tier 9 gun, with tier 10 med view range but less hp and armor.

                       I will now risk my neck for my stupid team to get a few spots then watch my team drive by without shooting him.

                       Maybe I get lucky and don't get rushed so I can have this half-decent game where I farm an occasional shot here and there."

 

 

 

  • Wargaming increased the skill cap of lights even further.

                      Was it not already hard enough?

                      That kind of on-demand map awareness, massive survivability concern, all while trying to help the team in some way?

                      You have now ruined iconic tanks like the Ru251 and bulldog. Must you now also destroy tier 10 lights?

 

 

 

  • More Wargaming logic...

                     Lights all moved up a tier but are now getting nerfs.

                     Yay.

 

 

Please revert the light tank changes Wargaming. :)


Edited by Spartan_Striker, Apr 09 2017 - 15:08.


B00BLEMAX #2 Posted Apr 09 2017 - 15:02

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What about the m41 Walker Bulldog 90mm ??? It's staying at tier 8 unchanged for CW / SH

 

 

Personally I disagree with the firepower, I think the vehicles should have low caliber fast firing guns. So lowering the alpha and pen and increasing dpm. Then they can consider boosting view range. Right now light tanks are far too medium tank like.


Edited by B00BLEMAX, Apr 09 2017 - 15:23.


Rake #3 Posted Apr 09 2017 - 15:05

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How is it really a poll when your entire intent is to provide a one sided view?

Spartan_Striker #4 Posted Apr 09 2017 - 15:09

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View PostB00BLEMAX, on Apr 09 2017 - 08:02, said:

What about the m41 Walker Bulldog ??? It's staying at tier 8 unchanged for CW / SH

 

 

Personally I disagree with the firepower, I think the vehicles should have low caliber fast firing guns. So lowering the alpha and pen and increasing dpm. Then they can consider boosting view range. Right now light tanks are far too medium tank like.

 

M41 bulldog, if you didn't hear yet, now has 6 shells instead of 10.

Also, due to Wargaming logic the overall reload went up to ~38-40 seconds with the shell nerf, which makes 100% sense


Edited by Spartan_Striker, Apr 09 2017 - 15:10.


ClydeCooper421 #5 Posted Apr 09 2017 - 15:19

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I don't like like that they touched my Luchs....

B00BLEMAX #6 Posted Apr 09 2017 - 15:24

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View PostSpartan_Striker, on Apr 09 2017 - 08:09, said:

 

M41 bulldog, if you didn't hear yet, now has 6 shells instead of 10.

Also, due to Wargaming logic the overall reload went up to ~38-40 seconds with the shell nerf, which makes 100% sense

 

I derped, i meant the backdog, m41 with the 90mm

GeorgePreddy #7 Posted Apr 09 2017 - 15:27

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"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

Ric_Flairs_Shoes #8 Posted Apr 09 2017 - 15:45

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I cant vote on this. Loved them in common tests and they will break the game. I'm getting the russian and germany light tier X tanks and hope they do NOT get nerfed.

DeathbyGMaC #9 Posted Apr 09 2017 - 15:50

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I gonna give WG the benefit of the doubt for now, but I will admit I'm nervous. I love the Luch, ELC, E25 and all the Tier 8 LT's just the way they are. Arty "Stunning" seems really lame. I mean that besides the "I hate Arty" stuff, Is there a real problem with LT's right now? I think not......I don't change things just to change things and I wish WG wouldn't either.

LeaveIT2Beaver #10 Posted Apr 09 2017 - 16:25

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Same as always. "I was penned. Nerf the tanks".

capted77 #11 Posted Apr 09 2017 - 17:42

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No they suck one of the least competitive class in the game 



Mikosah #12 Posted Apr 09 2017 - 18:00

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Before anything else is said, let it be known that even with 430 base view range, high tier light tanks still badly struggle to be as relevant as mediums. The mediums have enough mobility, camo, and view range to be perfectly adequate scouts in their own right. Not to mention abundant firepower and reasonable durability. And you know what, that's just fine. The trouble is that light tanks DESPERATELY needed a significant view range advantage to actually have a niche of their own. Being just slightly better at scouting than mediums while lacking their durability or their firepower just doesn't cut it.

 

So when WG nerfed light tank view ranges to this extent, they utterly murdered any chance light tanks would have had to pursue the dedicated scouting role. And what makes it worse is their reasoning. According to the micropatch transcript, they did this because they thought it would actually differentiate light tanks and mediums. I've never seen such stupidity in all my life. So let's break this down point by point.

 

1- Just because light tanks were using medium-esque equipment loadouts does not suddenly make them become mediums, behave like mediums, or demand that they be treated like mediums. If your loadout gets you 450+ meters of view range without optics, then you probably don't need optics, regardless of your tank's class. The maps just too small and the 445m spotting cap is just too restrictive to ever demand more view range than this.

 

2- If you nerf light tank view range, they aren't necessarily going to be any more keen on ditching their rammers and vertical stabilizers. These items are irreplaceable, and given the choice it would be preferable to be blind than to have impotent firepower, even on a light tank. Nerfing their firepower doesn't change this either.

 

3- If hypothetically light tanks were mimicking the roles of mediums, it wouldn't be the end of the world. WG wanted more active, dynamic gameplay if I remember right. Why suddenly do they want to dissuade aggression?

 

 

 

 

*****4- And the Bulldog debacle. A personal pet-peeve of mine, bear with me, this is a fantastic case-and-point of the overall trend. WG screwed the pooch pretty hard this time. The good news is that having the autoloader's drum only hold 6 shells was actually a decent decision. But bringing the single-shot gun's ROF to just 12 RPM was not. As mentioned earlier, doing so forces it to mount that rammer even more desperately than before. And by the way this tank with an autoloader can still mount a rammer. After all this fuss they made about light tanks being equipped like mediums, they just forced a light tank to equip itself like a medium. Genius!



Nyx_Sky #13 Posted Apr 09 2017 - 18:31

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Complete non sense. Look at this: "The main purpose of these changes is to eliminate the frustrating +3 matchmaking that the class currently has. Extending the branches of light tanks to Level X leaves the regular game +2 possible for them, which should turn them into an autonomous battle unit."

 

Ok moving a tier up to rebalance, but what is the logic at nerfing them ? All the changes, since the Supertest, were only nerfs to gun performance and dpm. Now they are taking away mobility and view range. Such bull****. If i can't spot well, and i have a crap gun and dpm, i would rather improve the gun than view range, since in public matches is kinda hard to make people work as a team, my own performance comes first. I think that this change make them behave a lot more like mediums.

 

How am i suposed to have impact in a battle, if my tank can't pen an equal tier, can't bounce anything, and have bad view range that forces me to be close to the enemy if i want to spot. All that those high tiers LT's do, you can do in a russian med, with better gun performance, armor, and reasonable camo.



Luciano_Bradley #14 Posted Apr 09 2017 - 20:35

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The new Bulldog would be considered severely nerfed even if it stayed at tier VII 

http://tanks.gg/comp..._311119_v0918ct

 

 



SynapticSqueeze #15 Posted Apr 10 2017 - 15:35

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With these last changes, there's basically no incentive to play light tanks beyond tier 8. They're outmatched in nearly every way by mediums. DPM and accuracy on par with the bottom half of heavy tanks. Basically it seems like WG's idea of tier X light play is "drive around fast and hope your camo holds." Think I'll pass.

leeuniverse #16 Posted Apr 10 2017 - 17:00

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Light Tanks

 

Remove Physics from light tanks, just keep Handbrake Turn so they can be controllable again, this will allow you to add good "traverse" speeds without the tanks becoming uncontrollable like they now do.

 

Remove the nerfs to Lights "viewranges".  Lights SHOULD have better viewrange and camo than tanks of the game.  Just because they have decent guns doesn't change this fact.

Lights STILL overall suck more than other tanks, so there's nothing wrong with them being a little more balance compared to other tanks.

You wonder why people don't scout with tanks, well this is why, and their lacking the real speeds they should have.  Everyone knows viewrange is more important than camo.

 

Sheridan, partially uncontrollable because of the physics.  Bloom should be cut in Half, Reload reduced by 1 secs to just over 17 sec's.

 

T49, Should have the stats of the current Sheridan, with also bloom cut in half.  Both tanks it's unacceptable you're missing a tank often when just 5 feet away.  Also, accuracy nerfs in the last year made the T49 terrible, and it was already terrible, but now you're constantly shooting the ground, and your constantly missing when tanks drive right in front of you, but you could hit them before as long as you allowed your bloom to go down and you were mostly stationary.  So, the T49 needs the stats of the Sheridan, including it's turning (though without the physics) it's turning radius is monstrous, though it does seem more controllable compared to current T49, though again, the problem is the physics causing this imbalance between control and maneuverability.  Lights were perfect in speeds and controllability before the physics came along, except they should have been faster on the "low-end" power/acceleration still.

 

QUESTION...?  Why is it okay for TD's and other tanks to do high damage shots consistently without terrible bloom, but these tanks can't?  You've nerfed them FAR too much.

Their bloom CAN be cut in half without making them "op".  And if you really think that will occur, then I'm fine if the Derp Max damage shots are only allowed to do 500-700, instead of 700-1100.

We NEED these tanks to be slightly more "reliable".

 

Bulldog, If you're going to reduce it's clip, then you need to reduce it's reload also to like 20 sec's, like the T71.  Also, your accuracy nerfs in the last year makes this tank shoot the ground now, even when Server Reticle is fully down, ridiculous how you've made tank accuracy, not only that, it and the new HWK Tier 8 tank MISS many shots when shooting on the move.  Another example of accuracy nerfs being too much is AMX 50 100 was hard before, but now it's worthless to play.

 

M7, if you're making it a Light, then you need to speed it up and reduce it's bloom and increase it's pen (can't pen even the sides of many armored tanks without using gold).

This didn't used to be a problem years ago when accuracy was decent, and you could shoot for example the side hatch of the Churchhill 1.  But now bloom/accuracy is so bad, you HAVE to shoot at the entire side of the tank to even hit the tank (though you'll even miss that often).

 

ELC, you should not have touched it's speed.  You already made it massively slow over the last year, but this is insane.  The ELC can't even drive backwards faster than a massive heavy, let alone forward speed.

 

BTW, honorable mention....  Used to always look forward to getting the Centurian 7/1, but driving it on the Test Server it drives like a Heavy, and also like it's in molasses due to the speed nerfs the last year since I last played it on the Test Server, so you like many other tanks have ruined a once enjoyable tank.

Why do you guys keep making all tanks of the game worse and worse?  It's only made a worse game, not a balanced one.



Mikosah #17 Posted Apr 10 2017 - 18:56

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That actually raises a point worth discussing- the new physics being an obstacle to mobility and aggression. Its all well and good to give these light tanks power to weight ratios over 30, but that only means so much if they have to tiptoe around to avoid rolling on their backs. Slow tanks don't worry about this because they're slow in any case. 

 

But in seriousness, how do you get the light tanks to be different from mediums? Give them back their vision advantage. Yes, that'll mean that at some point when base view ranges start hitting 420-430 meters then some light tanks won't be equipped with optics or binoculars because they're simply not needed. If you want to motivate players in this position to use vision equipment anyway, then change the rules a little. Remove the 445m spotting cap from light tanks. If so, then suddenly they'll want their optics or even binoculars at the high tiers. 

 

As for light tank firepower, they may not need as much of it if their vision is restored or if mobility were actually superior to mediums in practice. And I understand that base spread was deliberately nerfed to discourage lights from camo-sniping. However, we're still talking about a situational class and being situational is one of the worst things to be in WoT. Lights desperately crave flexibility, and WG craves dynamic gameplay. This could have been a match made in heaven if the lights had the DPM they need to make aggressive flanking and circling plays. 

 

And as for light tank mobility, the physics are a problem but truthfully the bigger issue is that high tier mediums are already fast enough to completely fill a light tank's shoes at any moment. Light tanks have to be able to make maneuvers that mediums simply can't mimic. Pump the power to weight ratios even higher, increase hull/turret traverse rates, improve terrain resistances, increase top speeds both forward and in reverse too. And for heaven's sake make it (through physics) practical to move at these speeds. Every time I see a light tank on its back I ask to myself: "Why do you hate aggression, WG? Why do you love camping so much?" 



leeuniverse #18 Posted Apr 10 2017 - 23:45

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Indeed Mikosah.....  I find the physics to be out of the minds of utter morons just like the new "Stun" mechanic for Arty is.

I mean, seriously that's ALL you could come up with to improve arty for players and tankers?  Just WOW...



Pluto314 #19 Posted Apr 11 2017 - 04:58

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@OP  No, no i am not happy at all. 

DeathbyGMaC #20 Posted Apr 11 2017 - 15:25

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With the already small maps, maybe nerf the view ranges of the heavies and mediums back a little to give back the lights advantage?





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