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Sandbox Phase 3 - Frontline Feedback : Sarminia

Sandbox Phase 3 Frontline 30vs30 New mode Sarminia Feedback

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Sarminia #1 Posted Apr 12 2017 - 00:36


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Hi wargaming, i'm rotting you down to give you my impression of the sandbox.


I do feel sometime ignored by the wargaming staff, so if one of them see this post just make a answer who say you seen this . My idea's are also always strongly critique by the other player and they do not understand why i do agree whit what you are doing. I also do it into a professional way, it might help you more if i give it strait to one of your staff member.


Community member, PLZ do not [edited]my work. You have the right to think what you want but i'm doing my feedback into a professional way. This mean and include the fact i take all the current content gift by wargaming and give them a report like i had been hired by a third party. The flowing content will be done into a NEUTRAL position (Not as a wargaming fan) whit my PERSONAL opinion (as experimented player).


Game play feeling


Over all the game mode is really good. The dynamic work well, server now run properly.


I do believe this mode will stay in development for the moment, there is need to do modification on some main feature to make it worth play. For what i have played ; He's fun, competitive and really addictive. Into the sandbox, we are not able to really unleash the hidden power of this mode : Platoons. 


Possible Issues and problems 


I think I have found the most important features that can cause problems if the game mode was to be released as it is now.


There is the list of modification i suggest for you to try. It will for sure be handy information.


Problem 1:


The defender are really disadvantaged compare to attacker. This is a problem that I can not stop noticing, Early and late game.


Possible Solutions :

1- Make the spawn closer if you wan keep the actual game pattern.

2- Create a time laps to help player go in position.


Problem 1.1 : In late game, defender are no more able to repair there vehicle and to the resupply.


Solutions :

1- Add Some repair point to the map between Objective 1/2 and objective 4/5


Problem 1.2


The arty strike when the A/B/C/D/E/F is captured is quite unfair. Some tank ; Like the Maus, are simply not able to get out in time.


Problem Number 2 : The profitability of the game mode


Like all other mods you created, the players are simply not able to do in game money. I do understand the repair and resupply cost but, they are simply way to hi. This situation is probably going to kill the game mod if he is officially lunch like he is now.


Suggested Solution :


1- Make military ranks affect the amount of money earned at the end of a game.

1.1- It is also possible to do the ranks affect the resupply and repair cost. Each rank low those cost by a certain %.

1.2 - Vehicles destroyed by the artillery strike after a point is capture are not considerate as destroyed. Just credit a fix amount of money as penalty.



Possible improvement


The game is sure cool but we can maybe offer a different version who can be equal or best to the actual one. Whit what i played into the sandbox server this is probably the only possibility's i see to ensure this mode a better future. They will be place in order of less modification needed to the one who need a lot of manipulation.


Option 1 : Remove part of the map


The map is to wide.


The current players are most accustomed has much smaller maps. They are not really able to focus on multiples objective in the same time.


Solution :

1- If the game mode was having a 2 lane map instead of a 3 lane, the game will be more intense and probably fun. It can be something to try.


Option 2 : Adding rules into the dynamic


The actual game play is maybe not optimized, the game mode have simple rules but they put confusion.


Solution :

1- Make the progression rules to next target :

A simple way to do this can be to do capture 2 objective before passing into the next line of objectives.

Example :  On the A/B/C line, Before open the path to target D/E/F the attacker need to capture at least 2 point.


Option 3 : Modification of the mod : Total change


Into the optic of keeping this mod alive at all cost, there is as my opinion a way to keep the work done by the development team and do not make a total waste.


Keep the actual game mode, cut the map in 3 parts. Each of those parts are a distinct map for a game.

This game mode can be open to Tier X and Tier VIII, even tier VI! 


It will allow to get the same fun whit different challenge. It will also be less boring then get the exact same map who is currently a main subject into the community.


For wargaming : what is the role of the grades like general and others.... Maybe allow air strike and artillery strike like in bastion. Cane be used to block the cap for a moment.




I hope those information as been useful, it is always a pleasure to make those review.:B 
Sarminia # VincC

Quigley66 #2 Posted Apr 12 2017 - 13:05


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Like the game mode. Addresses my main issue with the game. Same old maps over and over again. A huge positive with advance, and push to objective. Negative, game seems to take too long to complete and negates one of the best features of WOT,  that your life makes a huge difference in the outcome win or lose. Overall I will play this.  Downside of test, game starts and immediately shuts down after game countdown. Only been able to play complete game twice. 

cheapbooks #3 Posted Apr 17 2017 - 12:35

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I do not believe the map is too wide. I am playing the RU251 and you have access to almost the entire map at the later stages of the game. I would like to see a 2x2 map and a 3x3 map, and even a 4x4 map with 16 sectors.


as the game has more sectors, people feel less like they are part of a team, and platoons will become more important.

Sarminia #4 Posted Apr 17 2017 - 21:40


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View PostAlpine_gremlin, on Apr 11 2017 - 16:27, said:

Overall I think that WG has really hit a home run with this game mode. It is a solid concept that is executed well. Although there are also a few concerns that I have as well.


What you guys got right:

  • The map in general is probably one of, if not your best. Its large and gives mediums and lights plenty of room to maneuver while still keeping heavies and TDs relevant as they are very important for attacking and defending objective points. Artillery has plenty of room to position themselves in order to support the advance or the defensive line. You guys have, in my opinion, made a map in which all vehicle types are relevant.
  • The respawn system encourages people to grow a pair and move up with the team as they have more opportunities to play even if they get knocked out.
  • The ability to change between fronts allows the fast tanks on a team to quickly reinforce positions that are in danger of falling or helping to move an attack that has gotten bogged down.
  • The dynamic and enlarged minimaps are very good at relaying important information to players regarding the overall tactical situation.
  • The fact that only three of the five coastal guns need to be destroyed in order to achieve victory means that defenders must choose which positions to reinforce heavily and prevents them from all crowding around a single position to bleed out the timer.
  • Overall I notice a level of teamwork that is not usually present in a Random Battle. Perhaps this is because Sandbox participants are generally of a higher caliber, or because the game mode actually encourages it. Either way, I like it.

What I don`t think works:

  • As it is, this mode is far too expensive. Its not unusual to burn through 100,000+ credits during the course of a match. Using multiple tier X tanks and using their ammo and consumables really racks up quite the expensive post battle invoice.
  • The timer requiring the defending team to retreat if their position is lost is far fast for people in slow tanks. I personally think that defenders inside the zone at the moment that it is captured by the attackers should not be subject to the airstrike, but if they are killed or leave the zone, cannot re-enter the lost zone.
  • The AI artillery that protects the attacking team`s deployment zone fires far too quickly after a player enters the restricted area. I think this could be better replaced with a steady HP bleed or a 10 second timer, rather than a random shot from the heavens blowing your tracks off and causing a large amount of one shot damage.

Things that I am unsure of:

  • I notice that Sandbox server is running an older patch. Meaning the artillery still works like it currently does on the live server and there are no tier X light tanks. I personally think that we should be testing under 9.18 conditions to get an accurate picture of how it may work on the live server.
  • Are you guys planning to open this mode up to the lower tiers? I personally think that this should not be restricted only to tier X vehicles. We should really try this with at least tiers 6-10.
  • How will you balance the credit, XP gain, and post battle cost with that of Random Battles? Obviously it would be ideal to give people a reason to play BOTH Frontlines and Random Battles and not just one or the other.

Suggestions I currently have:

  • Give bonuses to players for reaching certain field promotions either in the form of buffs, temporary enemy nerfs, or even just credit/XP bonuses. The General in particular should get something which will allow him to further help the team.
  • Allow players to pick their tanks BEFORE their first deployment and give them an active counter for how many of each vehicle type are being chosen both for their particular front and the team as a whole. This will allow them to make a more informed decision on what to bring into the game.
  • [I`m not so sure about this one, but its just an idea] Perhaps rather than a time limit, you could try a ticket system like in Battlefield. Meaning that the attackers get a certain number of vehicles which can die and respawn before they run out of reinforcements. Once this limit is reached, the attackers lose automatically.


Those are the things that first come to me when I think about the mode as a whole. Hopefully WG finds it useful!


Sarminia #5 Posted Apr 17 2017 - 21:44


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View PostTracassin, on Apr 11 2017 - 20:08, said:

OIbservations Part II - After a few more games


1) At the time NA players can get on, the Sandbox is empty and queue time are starting to be long.  But I am patient and I know the game will eventually starts. But I wish we were more.


2) BIG ISSUE imo : The side (either offense or defense - or the line (west, middle, east - def or off) with the most auto-loaders (Read BatChat and TVP) wins. Why? They are fast, nimble and in pack the deadliest thing out there bar none.  But seriously, when I think about it, who in their right mind at WG gave those tanks the same penetration power to their shell as a single-shot tank, when they can clip to death most damaged tank they encounter?  This is a big problem imo.  4-5 shells that can go through any armored tank? Come on.  Load Premium round. Right-click to auto-aim, circle to death. Rinse-and-repeat. I already said this in another post last year that the autoloaders are something that jeopardize the regular 15v15 games, well, the 30v30 just proves my point.  So either they limit their number to 3-4 per side (else everyone will eventually just play them - mark my words - or prevent those tank from using premium ammo somehow and lower their standard ammo's pen by 20% at least.  Those tanks are scouts, snipers, flankers and everything in between.  And again, there is another big interrogation mark to ask: Why autoloaders are even in this game?  If this is suppose to be some 'history' landing remake, wth are those post-korean war tank doing there?  They shouldn't be allowed imo because they ruin the fun of actually playing a tank game.  Would you go to a gun fight with a knife? No.  But why then do you allow someone with a riffle to fight someone with a machine-gun?


3) At this moment, defending wins most of the time because it is easy to stall the other team with strategic snipers and some TDs that can crossfire.  The playing field is too open and it's just a 'free for all' without no real strategy because this.  I wish there were more localized theater of actions that can't be influence by some tanks 550m farther that snipe into you because everything is 'bowl shape' again. Every sub-zone is like that to some extend.


4) Slow and/or low maneuverable tanks are penalized greatly in this game mode.  And when they finally reach some actions, they are in the open (theres not enough protected lanes), penned by Wolfpacks of auto-loaders at 400m+ because their armor is like butter to those 310mm and 330mm Heat pen shells, and dies a few second later. Not Fun. 


5) The pace of the fights is a bit too fast.  This is not a RTS where your 'click per minute' is what determines if you are good or not.  This is supposed to be an attack and defend scenario.  Well, let us have some sort of opportunity to do that, and not just rush rush rush because, you are right, the wolfpack autoloaders are every where.


6) I would really prefer to play this same game more at lower tier to slow the pace, remove annoying and OP auto-loaders, and have a sense of actually not wasting my time because I decided to play a slow TD.



What I think the mode should be: Because some players like to play slower tanks, being put on offense kind screw your fun.  Why not then, have both team to defend and attack at the same time?  Just like the regular 15v15 where you either kill all of capture, so players in an E3 could actually defend in a more secure place instead of crawling in the open, get tracks and be defenseless to who ever point its gun next at you.  OR, when we queue, let us select if we want to play defense of offense.  And when we queue, let us 'flag' the tanks we can bring with us as replacement, or as tank we can switch to at specify spot on the map (garage for example).  That way, if you are in your E3 again, but see that the team requires accuracy, you could jump into a Leo 1, etc.


Don't get me wrong. What you propose is fun, but some polishing needs to be done in order to get it right.


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