Jump to content


why frontline will fail part 2


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

cheapbooks #1 Posted Apr 17 2017 - 02:19

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 30864 battles
  • 798
  • [CBKS] CBKS
  • Member since:
    08-21-2013

I am going to explain in detail why rampage failed, and since frontline is making the same mistakes, why frontline will fail.

 

I loved rampage when it first came out. I was a great player, my best game I did 14,900 damage (replay on my youtube channel).

 

the problem is I had no tier 10 tanks. so I had to use the tier 10 rental tanks, of which they had 3 to pick from. they gave you a 100% crew with no skills. so I had to either player with no skills or perks, or I had to transfer them from another tank (which I did).

 

it was fun to play for a while. but these are not premium tanks, so you lose money. so for every rampage game, you had to play 3 or 4 games in random battle with a premium tank to earn back the credits. this reduces the number of people playing the rampage game mode.

 

after a while, I got tired of how expensive it was to play rampage, and I got tired of playing rental tanks. the rental tanks will go away, so I wanted to have my own tier tanks. so to do so, I had to level up my tier 8 tanks, which took many weeks or month to finally get to tier 10. while I was doing this, I was playing random battles, and not playing rampage.

 

in addition, when there is a 3x or 5x weekend, I would not play rampage. during these times I put special attention to level up tanks and play premium tanks (I have 123 tanks, about 85 premium tanks). during this time, I was not playing rampage, although I wanted to.

 

finally, after a few months, I had my first tier 10 tank (IS4). it is not my favorite tank. so I was able to play rampage with 1 tier 10 tank, and then my tier 8 tanks (I had most of them). so I was at a disadvantage playing against people who had tier 10, and it was difficult.

 

so I wanted more tier 10 tanks. so I had to play my tier 8 and tier 9 tanks in random battles, so I was not playing rampage.

 

in addition, my favorite tanks are not tier 10 tanks. my favorite tanks were not permitted or useful in rampage. I like the AMX 1390, the Matilda IV, the Matilda BP, etc. So playing rampage meant I could no tplay my favorite tanks.

 

also, playing rampage interfered with me finishing my missions to win the T28 HTC. because we don't know when we will lose the campaign mission, when they will pull it from the game, I decided to keep playing random battle to get my T28 HTC, which I now have.

 

I tried the missions for rampage, and they were just too crazily hard. almost all of them required air strikes, and they were difficult to earn, and once you get them, it was hard to find a group of 4 or 5 enemy tanks sitting next to each other. so the missions were too hard.

 

one day I decided to start playing rampage again,, and I could not find any enemy tanks! I drove all around the map and there were no enemy or friendly tanks to be seen. and eventually the game would end. made no sense. and it happened many games in a row. so when you die, someone would camp your spawn, and you would respawn, he would kill you, and the process would repeat, beause there were no team mates chasing after him. at most I saw 1 or 2 tanks in the game out of 30.

 

one battle, I saw a ton of batchats run behind a hill. I thought it was odd that they went there, I did not understand why. it ends up the reason why is because they were cheating. they would get 5 or 10 friends, go hide behind a hill, and 1 tank would kill all the others and rank up damage. so you would run around and see no enemy tanks, because they started rigging the games, because no one was playing, and it was easy to have 1 game with 10 or 20 or 30 of your friends, or an entire clan could control the game.

 

I seem to recall my team mates were cheating. I would be fighting someone while a team mate would be right next to me, doing nothing. he probably told his friend on the other team where I was, and his friend cam to kill me.

 

many times I would try to get a game, and there were not enough people to get into a game, because people stopped playing, because they wanted to play random battles instead. they wanted to level up to tier 10, to play their premiums, etc, in hopes of play rampage in the future.

 

so I noticed one day that there were hundreds of missions to earn personal reserves for rampage, but no one was playing rampage.

 

they announced a week later that they would end rampage, so people started playing again. but it was only a small group. it was a lot of fun, people were much better, I still only had 1 tier 10 tanks, and it was the same 30 people game after game after game.

 

rampage failed because they had a strict tier 10 requirement (which they loosened slightly), they made it more than 1 separate battle mode, you could use almost none of your premium tanks which you spent who knows how many hundreds or thousands of dollars on, and it was too expensive to play, so you had to play random battles to earn credits to play rampages. these 3 issues led to the game not being played, even though people wanted to.


 

rampage only had a few maps to play on.


 

frontline is using the same model as rampage. expensive to play, you need tier 10, and it is a separate game mode. it is going to fail for the exact same reasons that rampage did. people will want to play it, but because of the strict restrictions, people will not be able to play.

 

the solution?


 

- allow frontline to be played by all tiers, form tier 1 to tier 10

- make frontline part of random battles, just like assault/defend and encounter


 

 

the same 2 solutions can be used for rampage, supply swarm, and the other game modes. and then they will succeed and customers will be happy.


 

please take these suggestions seriously.



rich73 #2 Posted Apr 17 2017 - 02:32

    Major

  • Players
  • 42383 battles
  • 4,870
  • Member since:
    10-17-2011
Dividing up an already low population isn't smart anyways.Leave this mode for the Europeans and peeps can go there to play if they need.I can already hear people in chat begging people to join.Besides, a 25 minute match makes grinding a pretty long affair.

NomaeTheJester #3 Posted Apr 17 2017 - 02:38

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 12646 battles
  • 812
  • Member since:
    12-01-2012

Don't judge Frontline's economy yet, hasn't been balanced at all.

 

I don't have the source, but I am sure I saw someone saying that WG had confirmed that there will be incentive to play Frontline, beyond just "it's fun". Not going to search for it, but you can look it up if you are interested.

 

IDK about allowing Frontline to be played by lower tier tanks. Too big a map for crap view range, and people with limited range autocannons would ragequit because they are autobouncing off the [edited]of a covenanter from 450 meters. Maybe make Frontline available at tier 5 or something. Maybe the lower tier your tank the sooner you can re-spawn or the more times you can re-spawn, so that low tier tanks could go for spotting damage and rushing paper TDs, without having to feel to bad about dying.



Colddawg #4 Posted Apr 17 2017 - 02:40

    Major

  • Players
  • 42656 battles
  • 3,690
  • [WONKA] WONKA
  • Member since:
    07-12-2010

From actually testing it, no frontline is not the same as Rampage.  It's REALLY hard to actually rig Frontline matches when it's 30 v 30 instead of 3 v 3 v 3 v 3 or 15 v 15.  The economy isn't set right now so you could turn out to make credits in the final edition.

 

Don't talk about what you don't know because you are not a sandbox tester.



Mikosah #5 Posted Apr 17 2017 - 02:41

    Major

  • Players
  • 17448 battles
  • 2,874
  • Member since:
    01-24-2013

I agree with the OP's premise, but I think the solutions need some forethought. If frontline was just a random thing that popped up in the random queue, then you'll never know when you'll actually play it. Maybe you'll play for a whole session and never get a frontline match. Also, because of the map size as well as certain factors like the armor and HP of the map objectives, it'll be complicated to make a one-size-fits all version that's playable for all tiers. At the very least they'd need different variants depending on who they're expecting to participate.

 

So if I had to give WG some honest advice, it would be to do the following:

1- Make it easy to break even on expenses, even at tier 10. This mode is supposed to be a reward for those who did the grinding to get to the high tiers, so reward them rather than penalize them.

2- Eliminate the 'repair time' cooldown of a destroyed tank. The respawn cooldown alone should suffice. Owning just one tier 10 should be enough of a requirement for full participation.

3- Establish a separate queue at tier 9 with 'repair time' cooldowns still present. To play this mode at tier 9, you should require at least a few vehicles of the tier.

4- Do NOT rely on missions and/or quirky rewards to justify this mode's presence. If it isn't entertaining enough to stand on its own, then it isn't worth having in the first place.



Colddawg #6 Posted Apr 17 2017 - 02:44

    Major

  • Players
  • 42656 battles
  • 3,690
  • [WONKA] WONKA
  • Member since:
    07-12-2010

View PostMikosah, on Apr 16 2017 - 20:41, said:

I agree with the OP's premise, but I think the solutions need some forethought. If frontline was just a random thing that popped up in the random queue, then you'll never know when you'll actually play it. Maybe you'll play for a whole session and never get a frontline match. Also, because of the map size as well as certain factors like the armor and HP of the map objectives, it'll be complicated to make a one-size-fits all version that's playable for all tiers. At the very least they'd need different variants depending on who they're expecting to participate.

 

So if I had to give WG some honest advice, it would be to do the following:

1- Make it easy to break even on expenses, even at tier 10. This mode is supposed to be a reward for those who did the grinding to get to the high tiers, so reward them rather than penalize them.

2- Eliminate the 'repair time' cooldown of a destroyed tank. The respawn cooldown alone should suffice. Owning just one tier 10 should be enough of a requirement for full participation.

3- Establish a separate queue at tier 9 with 'repair time' cooldowns still present. To play this mode at tier 9, you should require at least a few vehicles of the tier.

4- Do NOT rely on missions and/or quirky rewards to justify this mode's presence. If it isn't entertaining enough to stand on its own, then it isn't worth having in the first place.

 

 

ECONOMY IS NOT SET YET, do not assume from someone who has NEVER played FRONTLINE that the economy is set!!!!!!!!!!!!  

 

 

OP HAS NOT PLAYED FRONTLINE OR SANDBOX!



Cutthroatlemur #7 Posted Apr 17 2017 - 02:46

    Major

  • Players
  • 17510 battles
  • 10,332
  • Member since:
    08-24-2011
Frontline needs balancing in a big way.  The offense wins almost every time.

Mikosah #8 Posted Apr 17 2017 - 02:50

    Major

  • Players
  • 17448 battles
  • 2,874
  • Member since:
    01-24-2013

View PostColddawg, on Apr 16 2017 - 19:44, said:

 

 

ECONOMY IS NOT SET YET, do not assume from someone who has NEVER played FRONTLINE that the economy is set!!!!!!!!!!!!  

 

 

OP HAS NOT PLAYED FRONTLINE OR SANDBOX!

 

Yes, yes, we all know that. But if WG isn't told thousands and thousands of times that this mode isn't supposed to a money drain, then they'll make it a money drain. I don't trust them to make intelligent decisions on their own, they need to be hand-held like little children. And they need a proper whooping when they misbehave.

Laceylace #9 Posted Apr 17 2017 - 02:54

    Major

  • Players
  • 22205 battles
  • 14,077
  • [DIMBO] DIMBO
  • Member since:
    03-18-2013

View PostMikosah, on Apr 17 2017 - 01:50, said:

 

Yes, yes, we all know that. But if WG isn't told thousands and thousands of times that this mode isn't supposed to a money drain, then they'll make it a money drain. I don't trust them to make intelligent decisions on their own, they need to be hand-held like little children. And they need a proper whooping when they misbehave.

 

I mean you say this but tbh WG are on top of the whole credit situation. Like tier 10s don't make credits. And if you go into this mode expecting tier 10s to make credits you should be hit in the head with a brick. The entire purpose of it is this epic new game mode and 30 v 30 with a map 9 times the size of normal. You can generally go even or make credits if you don't spam premium ammo and miss alot. 

MickayRookie #10 Posted Apr 17 2017 - 02:55

    Corporal

  • -Players-
  • 16537 battles
  • 33
  • Member since:
    06-20-2015
At least tier 8-9-10.... in frontline , same as the random battle... only tier x , frontline is already dead.  Let's talk about 9.19...

LeaveIT2Beaver #11 Posted Apr 17 2017 - 02:55

    Major

  • -Players-
  • 27858 battles
  • 6,731
  • [BRIG] BRIG
  • Member since:
    07-04-2014

View Postcheapbooks, on Apr 16 2017 - 20:19, said:

I am going to explain in detail why rampage failed, and since frontline is making the same mistakes, why frontline will fail.

 

 

Let me help you. "RAMPAGE PART DUEX" says it all - FAIL. It died in committee 


Edited by LeaveIT2Beaver, Apr 17 2017 - 02:56.


Striker_70 #12 Posted Apr 17 2017 - 02:56

    Major

  • Players
  • 18477 battles
  • 5,174
  • Member since:
    04-02-2013

WG said in an official video that they haven't even touched the economy of the frontline mode yet.  They're just testing out play right now, they'll work on the economics of it later.

 

That being said, I agree that having a tier 10 limit would kill the game mode.  It needs to be at least tier 8+, if not 6+.   It takes many people a very long time to get a tier 10 tank.  I know someone who has been playing longer than I have and doesn't have a tier 10.  They've basically quit this game already, and would come back for the frontline mode, but won't bother grinding for tier 10s to do it.  They're not going to grind a bunch of XP just to earn rentals so they can play either.  It should be available to virtually everyone, and easily.

 

They absolutely need to open it up to more tiers or else the game mode will surely fail.  The population of players with an adequate number of tier 10s to play this game mode is simply not large enough.


Edited by Striker_70, Apr 17 2017 - 03:05.


jjjwar #13 Posted Apr 17 2017 - 02:58

    Sergeant

  • -Players-
  • 17862 battles
  • 166
  • Member since:
    12-13-2014

As a person who has played Frontline I can say it is fun. I enjoy it as it is a big change from the same old regular small maps and 3 to 5 minute battles. The map is huge and nicely laid out. For the almost dozen games I have played I still have not seen all the map and discover something new every time I play it. In short it would be a much welcomed change to the regular random battles for me. I am sure other would find it fun as well.

 

Yes the economy sucks right now but I am sure it has not been adjusted. Hopefully it will be adjusted so one can make a profit of some sorts playing it as we do in the random battles.

 

It would be nice if it was say opened up to tier 8 to 10. But for now it is okay. It just means I will have to grind for a few more tier 10 tanks if it becomes part of the regular game and I hope it does.

I do agree that it does seem like the offense has the upper hand more often but I have only played about a dozen games so I reserve my opinion on that for now.



Kamahl1234 #14 Posted Apr 17 2017 - 03:23

    Major

  • Players
  • 17660 battles
  • 8,207
  • Member since:
    04-06-2012

I don't think rampage would work in a normal MM environment at all, unless it's mono-tier. 

 

As mixed tier battles of attrition just emphasize differences in tank abilities much more. 

 

But overall I'm enjoying the mode quite a bit. 



Captain_Rownd #15 Posted Apr 17 2017 - 03:25

    First lieutenant

  • -Players-
  • 1771 battles
  • 523
  • Member since:
    09-28-2015

View PostStriker_70, on Apr 17 2017 - 02:56, said:

 

That being said, I agree that having a tier 10 limit would kill the game mode.

 

They can't limit to Tier 10.  Most players don't have Tier 10 vehicles.  Most players might not even have Tier 8 vehicles.  (though they'd love to sell you one for $50, whether or not you can handle it)

Edited by Captain_Rownd, Apr 17 2017 - 03:25.


Striker_70 #16 Posted Apr 17 2017 - 03:50

    Major

  • Players
  • 18477 battles
  • 5,174
  • Member since:
    04-02-2013

View PostCaptain_Rownd, on Apr 16 2017 - 20:25, said:

 

They can't limit to Tier 10.  Most players don't have Tier 10 vehicles.  Most players might not even have Tier 8 vehicles.  (though they'd love to sell you one for $50, whether or not you can handle it)

 

Yeah they can't if they want it to succeed.  Frontline is so fun and can be so successful that it needs to be easily available for almost anyone who wants to play it.  It should just be another type of game for tiers 6+, much like encounter or assault matches already are.  And if you don't want to play the mode, just uncheck the box in the in-game options.  IMO this is how it should be implemented, as just another type of battle, rather than as exclusive end game content.

 

Making it easily available to virtually everyone would likely increase server populations worldwide, game longevity, and therefore WG profits.  On the other hand, making it exclusive end game content would likely ensure the game mode would be only temporary and scrapped after a few months due to the lack of an adequate population.


Edited by Striker_70, Apr 17 2017 - 03:53.


cheapbooks #17 Posted Apr 17 2017 - 03:58

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 30864 battles
  • 798
  • [CBKS] CBKS
  • Member since:
    08-21-2013

you said: "Don't talk about what you don't know because you are not a sandbox tester."

 

yes I am a sandbox tester, which is evident by the 20 or so bug reports I have already submitted.

 


 

second, I never said that frontline is the same as rampage (although for the most part it is an enhanced version of rampage). I merely pointed out that what caused rampage to fail will also cause frontline to fail.



cheapbooks #18 Posted Apr 17 2017 - 04:00

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 30864 battles
  • 798
  • [CBKS] CBKS
  • Member since:
    08-21-2013

you said: "OP HAS NOT PLAYED FRONTLINE OR SANDBOX!"

 

 

OP (me) has played frontline and sandbox.



play4funz #19 Posted Apr 17 2017 - 04:02

    Sergeant

  • -Players-
  • 2081 battles
  • 226
  • [GUNS6] GUNS6
  • Member since:
    11-16-2016
Stopped reading at " I was a great player "...

cheapbooks #20 Posted Apr 17 2017 - 04:22

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 30864 battles
  • 798
  • [CBKS] CBKS
  • Member since:
    08-21-2013

you said: "Stopped reading at " I was a great player "...           "

 

 

hi, please show me a replay on rampage where you did 14,900 damage. or please show me your highest ranking for spotting (mine is #2 of all players on the NA server) and that was only playing 3 out of 7 days a week, on the weekly chart. I am assuming perhaps you made it to #1?






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users