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xxBigbacon #101 Posted Apr 23 2017 - 00:35

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View PostcoreFreekcore, on Apr 22 2017 - 22:34, said:

The new matchmaker is complete and utter bullcrap. In the about 100 battles i have played after 9.18, i have not had a single game of fun. Literally all my games have been so [edited]because of stupid matchmaking and everyone playing the new light tanks. I have been top tier about 16 times of the about 100 battles. That is just not acceptable. I am having the worst time of my life playing World of Tanks right now. The new arty mechanics are also insanely stupid, including the "no arty platoons". You seriously need to fix all these game destroying issues Wargaming.

 

this is kind of how I feel. there have been times I've hated this game but since 9.18 I have rage quite every day because of being low tier fodder 19 rounds in a row, rounds that last 2-1/2 minutes that are practiaclly over in 30 seconds. I have had almost ZERO fun since the patch dropped. Only fun i've had is playing arty. It sucks. 

 

the MM is still crap. the imbalance still sucks. I had a round just today  tier 5,6,7. reds had 3 top tier heavies, 5 mid tier heavies, and the low tiers were mix of stuff. We had no heavies....guess who won in a few minutes? not us. that is a nearly un-winable match and more and more are like that.

 

 

template should be 3/9/3, 3 lights max per side, 2 spgs per side max, everything else mirrored as closely as possible



HeroHans #102 Posted Apr 23 2017 - 05:01

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On my Sunday morning I start my WoT and looked forward playing some nice games. After some 12 battles lost my enthusiasm as the teams I was allocated in lost 10 battles out of those 12. In my humble opinion gaming should be fun, but I am curious what WG has can say about this? What is the intention of such match making? If I get allocated in loosing teams most of the time does WG expect players to have some fun in gaming? Any way my Sunday morning is wasted, fun is gone.



GI_Joe #103 Posted Apr 23 2017 - 06:42

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The MM is working as designed. They purposely did not balance heavy and medium tanks, so by their own admission it remains broken.

Not going to go into a long rant or paste a huge screenshot, but here is the breakdown of the top tier in the tier 8 game that prompted me to post this:

Team A: Panther 8.8, Skorpion G, T-34-2.  Team B: KV-4, T26E4, T-54 Mod 1.

As you can see, this is not a fair game. It gets worse. My O-Ni was the only tier 7 heavy on our team. On Redshire. End result: 0-13.

Constantly seeing one team having top tier heavies with the other team having mediums, lights, or arty at top tier. It's not right.



ali3rd #104 Posted Apr 23 2017 - 06:48

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I actually like the new mm a lot, doesn't make me feel useless very often when I'm bottom tier. But some problems poped up, many personal missions are WAY HARDER to do now, they need to be revised. Also the order of priority in the mm should be 2-tier battle first, 1-tier battler next, and 3-tier battle last, especially at low tiers where people don't know how to take out higher tier tanks.



Onager8 #105 Posted Apr 23 2017 - 09:54

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How is matchmaking compared to before the patch?

The new Match Maker is better.  Not hugely better, but a small step in the right direction.

 

How well do you feel the matches are balanced in general?

I think the matches are a little more balanced than before.

 

One difficulty is that with so many lower tier tanks running around, the 3 top tier tanks are less likely to run into each other until late in the match.  Until they do encounter each other and have a chance of taking some real damage, they will be doing a lot of baby seal clubbing.  I think there will likely be a statistically significant increase in the number of players getting 9-10 kills per match.

 

Another difficulty is that if the 3 top tier tanks are all 3 Heavy Tanks on one team, and none on the opposing team, then there will be a huge imbalance.  Heck just in terms of the number of hit points of damage that have to be inflicted there is a huge mismatch.

 

I think the next improvement the match maker should enact would be to require teams be within 2%-5% of each other for total HP.  That would greatly reduce the tendency for highly over matched teams of 3 top-tier and 3 mid-tier Heavy Tanks against 1 mid-tier Heavy Tank.

 

Have you seen any technical issues with the new matchmaker? 

I have not ran across any technical issues with the new matchmaker.  It does as advertised.  I just wish it did more to enhance fairness.

 

How have queue times been impacted? 

Queue times have been very similar to what they were before the match.  I believe more improvements to the match maker to enhance fairness, even if they incur more noticeable changes to the queue times, would be highly preferred to the present relatively high likelihood for grossly uneven matches just in terms of total HP on each team.

 



Savage__Apples #106 Posted Apr 23 2017 - 16:46

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View PostPollenz, on Apr 18 2017 - 13:23, said:

I already asked it and didn't get any response, so here I go again:

With this new MM, it's impossible to get this medals:
 



What's gonna do WG about them? Will fix it? Change the requeriments? Or just move it to "No longer availible" like they did with Sniper and Wittmann's Boelter's Medals?

 

 

Got a Nichols Medal yesterday but only because it was a tier 9-10 battle. Luck of the draw i guess.  

 

I really do not like the current MM 3-5-7 rule and would much rather see a 5-5-5 rule.  Platooning has been ruined with the fact that everyone must run the same tier vehicle. WG learn the difference between a fail platoon which is a tier 1 platooned with a tier 10 and an up-tiered platoon which is tier 8 platooned with tier 10.  Now it is next to impossible to complete personal missions where you need to kill 2 vehicles 2 tiers higher ESPECIALLY if they have to be a certain class of vehicle like 2 heavy tanks 2 tiers higher.  A better fix would have been to limit platoons to a 2 tier spread max and to cap the battle tier off the top tier vehicle in the platoon. Example would be if a tier 6, 7  and 8 were platooned together then the highest battle tier they would see would be tier 8.

 

  • How is matchmaking compared to before the patch?

 

Seems to be worse in terms of unbalanced teams. Too many matches with multiple arty as top tier vehicles (that didnt work out) or heavy tanks one team and other gets mediums.

 

  • How well do you feel the matches are balanced in general?

Maybe 1 in 5 matches are balanced

 

  • Have you seen any technical issues with the new matchmaker?

Yes. Not being able to have mixed tier platoons is an issue. See above comments

 

  • How have queue times been impacted?

Yes. When running 3 light tanks or when running 3 tier 10 vehicles que times are hitting 2 plus minutes way too often.



xxBigbacon #107 Posted Apr 23 2017 - 17:01

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View PostHeroHans, on Apr 23 2017 - 05:01, said:

On my Sunday morning I start my WoT and looked forward playing some nice games. After some 12 battles lost my enthusiasm as the teams I was allocated in lost 10 battles out of those 12. In my humble opinion gaming should be fun, but I am curious what WG has can say about this? What is the intention of such match making? If I get allocated in loosing teams most of the time does WG expect players to have some fun in gaming? Any way my Sunday morning is wasted, fun is gone.

 

and this is how all my days have been since 9.18 dropped. You can see your team lose in the first 30 seconds, it is over in 2-1/2 to 3 minutes. You don't even have time to get into the battle before it is over. You end up just trying to farm damage as long as you can until the swarm kills you. 

 

You can fight all the low tiers you want but then you are stuck fighting things you have no business trying to fight. 



Raptor377 #108 Posted Apr 23 2017 - 17:22

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mm better, but still too many mismatched games of heavies one side vs. the other.  Why can't balance heavies too?


RiCat #109 Posted Apr 23 2017 - 18:07

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The new MM has introduced some odd conditions from my perspective. I play on the NA server at varies times during the day to early new morning hours. In tier 8 I like to play an IS3 quite a bit. It seems that tier 8 is almost always the bottom tier. It is a result that when tier 10 are being played, tier 8 are grabbed to fill the bottom as a first priority. From the MM description, Tier 8 will never be selected as top tier if tier 10 are being played as they are prioritized to fill the tier 10 bottom group for the match.  The same constraints limit the role of tier 9 to middle group way to often. I have not seen a top tier 8 position since the patch. My experience in tier 8 is a disproportional number of matches where the tier is disadvantaged by being at the bottom.  Another anomaly relates to Assault form of battle. The requirement is to be tier 6 or higher. Under the new system, a tier 6 a player never sees Assault in any but the bottom tier group. If playing tier 6 Assault will never occur if the tank is mid or top tier group as the match will include tier 5 or lower.  A tier 7 player can only play an Assault match as a mid or bottom tier group member because as top tier they will be in a match with tier 5.  This effect greatly reduces the variety of match types seen by tier 6-7 players. I enjoy playing these tiers and have seen almost zero Assault matches since the patch.

 

Since it is clear that the game struggles to provide variety to the game play, I feel the above effects need to be addressed as they serve to limit the variability of match forms for a large number of players (ie. Customers).



Mudman24 #110 Posted Apr 23 2017 - 18:41

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Getting a lot of matches in tier 10 that are 13v13. I could definitely wait another 10 seconds for a 15v15 match.

Vegetable0 #111 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 04:13

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Hello, I wanted to share my experience with the new Matchmaker.  First, I do like how more of the lowest tiers are put into a match.  To allow low tier tanks a chance to shoot something.  Second I also like how some of the games do balance out the types of a certain tank.  All good things.  However, I do notice the Matchmaker seems to still pick me to be at the bottom of the tier list in about 70-90% of the games I play.  This seems to be because the Matchmaker does not differ between being the second tier, and the bottom tier in 2 tier matches.  So it allows you to run a 20+ string of bottom tier games.  This does make for some less than enjoyable game sessions.  As fighting an uphill battle is fun sometimes, but making an entire day of it, is less than ideal.

 

My recommendation is to help the Matchmaker look from the top down, not from the bottom up.  Or a 2 tier game will register as it does now, as a mid tier match, thus allowing people like me to enjoy more bottom tier matches in rapid succession.



GronHog #112 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 04:46

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My experience since playing all day Saturday and a few hours today, has been you Roll the other team or get Rolled. Not much fun when not even 5 minutes into game more than half of team dead with 1 or 0 kills, game finishes with my team 2 to 4 kills maybe. Roll or get Rolled has been the pattern for me so far, neither one has been much fun. Its like the MM is purposely putting lemmings all on one team. I haven't reinstalled XVM so I haven't known the composition of the teams I've played in as far as their individual stats. I don't have to win for it to be fun for me, just a solid game that lasts beyond 5 minutes, and those have been a very small percentage with my time in this patch.

 



skychan #113 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 04:55

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From what I have read here are my opinions.

 

1 - Allow at least 1 arty to be in a platoon.  Keeping arty from platoons is a huge disincentive to play a social game.

2 - I think that MM should try for 2 tier games first, 6-9 and then 3 tier at 3-9-3.  I feel this way because I do think that it will have proportionately fewer players on the 'bottom' of the game overall and a 2 tier spread is far superior to a 3 tier spread. The other major consideration is that the current division means that if your top 3 are good and their top 3 are bad, then they have a very disproportionate affect on the game.  With a more even spread of tanks, centered on the middle, it will help to mitigate a few really good players getting those top slots, or even just a few poor players getting them. 

3 - This was an improvement for mm, but it still needs a little bit more work on balancing tank types.  Particularly heavy tanks between the top and bottom tiers.  A few top tier heavies are in no way matched by an even number of bottom tier heavies. 

 

My main points

Let at least one member of a platoon play arty.

Try to create two tier matches first, then three then one.



Gearheadgtr #114 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 07:27

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Wargaming has to make the matchmaker make sure that players are getting tiered correctly. I've been playing tier 8 and have been constantly tiered to tier 10 matches which is totally unfair and forces me to shoot gold. Wargaming should make it so that the matchmaker attempts to make you top tier 33% of the time, mid tier 33% of the time, and bottom tier 33% of the time. I should not be facing tier 10 tanks 75% of the time in my tier 8 because that is simply unfair. In the last 20 matches I played in my tier 8 maybe 2-3 were tier 6 matches in which I was top tier. That is a measly 10-15% when it should be 33%. I did not have these types of problems in the old matchmaker.



Macras #115 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 14:01

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  • How is matchmaking compared to before the patch?
  • any change is good, at least finding different matchups has made for some interesting scenarios, unfortunately not all good., over all, better, but still needs work
  • How well do you feel the matches are balanced in general?
  • still not great, too many one sided matches over too fast. Some of this is further work needed on mm, some maybe because there is going to need to be some tank re balancing with the introduction of light tanks and arty changes.
  •  
  • Have you seen any technical issues with the new matchmaker?
  • yes. I thought it was meant to make it so you didn't always end up bottom tier, this might be true, but SOME TANKS seem to end up either top or bottom depending on what your playing. I haven't played enough or started recording the details yet, but I think we are going to find certain tanks are getting screwed.
  • How have queue times been impacted
  • meh. There are some long queue times and games with short rosters, but I would still prefer to see more even games that short queue times.
  •  

Over all a step in the right direction, at least changes have been attempted, the story for so long has been there is nothing wrong with MM, or there is no way of making any changes.


 

Thanks



Mirko_Sauronow #116 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 14:44

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My experience with this new MM. Played 75 games this weekend. Average tank tier picked by me: 7.9 (had several games in Panther/M10 to see how limited MM now works). Average tier of the game I played: 9.8. Who in the right senses thought that being bottom tier in almost every single game makes the game fun and interesting?In those 75 games only two games were with me being on +2 top. This is completely broken. I'm not even going to go into team composition with enemy team having a platoon of E-100s and you get a squishy TD, an arty and a light as top tiers. How is that balanced? How did it pass anything resembling testing phase and was thought to be a good idea is beyond me.

Edited by Mirko_Sauronow, Apr 24 2017 - 14:49.


xtc4 #117 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 14:56

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The new mm is generally moving in the right direction. Thanks for that. But a couple of wrinkles need work:

 

(1) Platoons (unless tier 10) almost always seem to be bottom tier. If you are in a 3-tank platoon, you can easily be bottom tier 25 times in a row.

 

(2) There is no reason not to allow arty in platoons. The rationale given in WG's notes would apply to any type of tank.



4ener #118 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 16:36

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With respect to MM, I'm generally pleased with the changes however there are a few things that may require some consideration moving forward to make the games more enjoyable for more people......

 

In 9.18 MM is generally more balanced in terms of the mix of tanks on the field, but I have found myself on teams with many inexperienced players in premium tanks that really don't know what they are doing and as a result the team loses more often than not. Every battle seems to have 3 or more low experience players playing tier 8 tanks, this I see as a problem. Without working your way up to at least tier 6 or 7, the tier 8 tank is too much to handle when going against very experienced players in higher tier battles, I learned this lesson myself the hard way. It's an expensive lesson for the player and it pisses a lot of more experienced players off when their team mates screw up badly with these tanks. Being called a [edited]ter and everything else under the sun is not a pleasant experience.  Limit less experience players in what they can buy in the Premium Shop and everyone will be happier.

 

In terms of players themselves, perhaps some consideration when viewing MM some emphasis should be given to matching it with either Win Rate Statistics or some other ranking system (XVM or whatever) whereby players with higher rankings be paired with others in the similar range.  This would help players with bringing more parity to battles in terms of skill and more satisfaction with the game.

 

A lot of players from my viewpoint are not getting the enjoyment out of the game that they would like to have due to issues with other players both during battles and afterward.... I've also been guilty of dishing out rude comments and banter due to the frustration of being on the losing end of games to the tune of 10 in a row at times when I'm having very good games.  Some people play better than others that is a given with any game or sport someone might play, people who play better should be paired in competition with others in the same skill range.... As skills improve with some players, they get moved up into more difficult competition, some players won't care others would thrive on it...

 

I believe that this way of thinking and driving the game might be more beneficial for all players concerned, maybe I'm wrong but I think someone should at least look into the possibilities. I myself am one of the frustrated and losing patience with the game as it is not as enjoyable to play as it could be. 



Bavor #119 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 22:30

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View PostGearheadgtr, on Apr 24 2017 - 01:27, said:

Wargaming has to make the matchmaker make sure that players are getting tiered correctly. I've been playing tier 8 and have been constantly tiered to tier 10 matches which is totally unfair and forces me to shoot gold. Wargaming should make it so that the matchmaker attempts to make you top tier 33% of the time, mid tier 33% of the time, and bottom tier 33% of the time. I should not be facing tier 10 tanks 75% of the time in my tier 8 because that is simply unfair. In the last 20 matches I played in my tier 8 maybe 2-3 were tier 6 matches in which I was top tier. That is a measly 10-15% when it should be 33%. I did not have these types of problems in the old matchmaker.

 

An amazing thing happened to me today.  I had my 5th tier 8 battle in a tier 8 tank since the patch was released last week!  Its amazing, an actual tier 8 battle in a tier 8 tank!  They are so rare for me after 9.18 was released that I had to double and triple check that I didn't miss a tier 9 on the teams.

Rolling_Pig #120 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 22:57

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Still getting teams where there are 6 heavies against one.  We get rolled everytime.  There is no way a medium is equal to a heavy that can one shot everything.  Especially if that tanker is good.  I thought that wot would have some balance for players skill, but I am still on teams where we have 9 tomatoes against 6 blues and 6 yellows?  Really?  In what world or universe is it possible to put a truly bad team against a truly good team.  Throw in a little out of balance for tanks and its a steamroll.  Honestly the game is not worth playing anymore.  You just dont get it.  And after all the complaining and bad reviews on metacritic you would think it wouldnt be hard to read them and address the problems.  Maybe its just that Russian computer developers cant read?  

 







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