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0.9.18 Feedback

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Son_of_the_South #521 Posted Jun 14 2017 - 00:14

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View PostMcMadd, on May 30 2017 - 19:57, said:

New patch coming and arty are still told no friends allowed. WG aren't listening. They don't care. This is just a containment thread.

 

​Arty is still in the game so your point is correct.

Son_of_the_South #522 Posted Jun 14 2017 - 00:17

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View PostDishonest_John, on May 30 2017 - 21:53, said:

  • ​arty reload times are way to short
  • arty should be one to a team
  • no platooning with arty
  • auto-loader arty needs to be removed from the game

 

arty needs to be removed from the game

 

You have my support and my vote.

dratsaB_gumS #523 Posted Jul 01 2017 - 15:52

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I've acclimated to the changes in artillery. I still stare, in stunned disbelief, as an HE shell bounces from my Bert (HE isn't supposed to bounce, is it?? Even if it doesn't penn, shouldn't there be an explosion?).
I still play more arty than anything else. I've settled into my SU-26, M12, and FV-304 as arty I can enjoy playing. That's not realy different from pre-nerf.
   
I've learned to spread out my shots and so am getting more Confederate medals, which is nice. I aim more at smaller tanks who've made the mistake of standing still, though their mobility continues to perplex (I SWEAR that they can tell when I click 'fire' and so they start moving :-) ).
If I aim at a heavy or TD, I aim my center either to just one so I might track them and get assistance damage or just under their lower glacis and get stun damage.
I recently got 4,000 stun damage (I've never gotten that much DIRECT damage!), but RNG can still be a heavy troll.

And, as always, the 'trajectory' view should be the TRAJECTORY and NOT "OH, you're peaking over a wall? Let's swing your camera violently upward and look down!" 
The latter of those two means the camera swings wildly, and disorientingly, up and down if you move your aim along a ridge as you try to aim at a tank.

Edited by dratsaB_gumS, Jul 01 2017 - 15:53.


Prototypexz #524 Posted Jul 10 2017 - 05:31

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Even though arty is more tolerable than pre 9.18, they are still incredibly annoying and still feel overpowered. It feels like I am constantly in a state of stun. Perhaps make the effect of the stun gradually less as the stun timer ticks down, so your tank becomes gradually less hindered as the stun timer decreases. Also, perhaps make the stun time less the further away your tank is from the center of the blast, if not done already. So, if I am say only 1 meter in the blast radius, the stun timer would be 80% of the stun time for a direct hit. All said though, I still feel like the entire arty mechanic is a bit unfair. Being able to dish out indirect fire is not fair for the other 80% of players on the map. I would much rather have arty removed. This may allow some tanks to completely lock down an entire flank. But if this is the case, the smart thing to do would be to relocate to an area of the map were you would be more effective or give up some ground to give you a more favorable position, if you'd rather defend said flank. In this sense, it would encourage smarter AND more dynamic game play and really force players think about what they are doing and make more strategic decisions.

EmperorJuliusCaesar #525 Posted Jul 10 2017 - 10:44

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View PostPrototypexz, on Jul 09 2017 - 20:31, said:

Even though arty is more tolerable than pre 9.18, they are still incredibly annoying and still feel overpowered. It feels like I am constantly in a state of stun. Perhaps make the effect of the stun gradually less as the stun timer ticks down, so your tank becomes gradually less hindered as the stun timer decreases. Also, perhaps make the stun time less the further away your tank is from the center of the blast, if not done already. So, if I am say only 1 meter in the blast radius, the stun timer would be 80% of the stun time for a direct hit. All said though, I still feel like the entire arty mechanic is a bit unfair. Being able to dish out indirect fire is not fair for the other 80% of players on the map. I would much rather have arty removed. This may allow some tanks to completely lock down an entire flank. But if this is the case, the smart thing to do would be to relocate to an area of the map were you would be more effective or give up some ground to give you a more favorable position, if you'd rather defend said flank. In this sense, it would encourage smarter AND more dynamic game play and really force players think about what they are doing and make more strategic decisions.

 

So you think a good business proposition if for WG to screw everyone who spent months to grind to a tier 10 Arty?   They don't.  They'd have to return all the XP, all the credits spent, all the gold spent on camo, and then you have the crews, all the crews would have to have all their crew xp returned.  It's not gonna happen, may as well get used to it.



Whistling_Death_ #526 Posted Jul 10 2017 - 13:41

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With the destruction of artillery, (and thus light scouting tanks too, as they no longer will be able to earn decent silver/XP from the big assisted HP damage by spotting for their team artillery), and also killing the AMX ELC bis, ( used to be one of the most popular and fun tanks in the game!), they are ruining this game by turning it into World of Brawling Heavy Tanks! Boring! This is really, really sad. I loved this game. :(


 

With destroyed artillery in the hated 9.18 patch, there is no counter-balance to heavy tanks, so when a team gets up on heavy tanks they generally win, running over the non-heavy enemy tanks, as there is no artillery to keep them honest. B-O-R-I-N-G. With destroyed artillery, it is so sad to see the downfall of this great game. :(


 



Lycan_Knight #527 Posted Jul 10 2017 - 15:56

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View PostQuemapueblos, on Apr 18 2017 - 14:39, said:

Hello Tankers,

 

Today we launched patch 0.9.18 and we want to hear your feedback! There are separate topics for the major 0.9.18 changes, please leave all feedback for Artillery Changes in this thread. 

  • How does artillery feel to play compared to previous patch balance?
  • How does artillery feel to play against compared to previous patch balance?
  • Do you find teamwork with artillery has improved?
  • How do you feel the economy for artillery has changed with this patch?

 

Details of Artillery Changes:

Spoiler

 

Overview of Patch 0.9.18 Here

Full Patch Notes Here

 

You want feedback.... Last time you wanted 'feedback' you completely ignored the players and went with a stupid idea that only 20% of the player population who voted actually wanted... 80% of your voting populace said no to "bonds" and you did it anyways.... So why the hell do you care about feedback. But i digress...


But first here's a TLDR for all those scrubs who don't like reading:

HOW TO FIX ARTILLERY:
1) Remove splash damage beyond 2 meters.

2) Replace splash damage with current stun mechanic. (meaning you only receive splash damage if the shell is with 2 meters from your tank anything further is stun only.)

3) DIRECT HITS DO DAMAGE EQUAL TO THAT PRIOR TO 9.18 PATCH. If you're hit by artillery, you should be punished for being somewhere they can hit you directly. Not shrug it off.
4) Return reload times to original parameters.

5) Return accuracy to original parameters (why they messed with accuracy and reload is beyond me. didn't mind the long reload and shotty accuracy if it meant that you actually HURT when you hit something.)

 

 

Now that's out of the way we can get down to the real post.:::::

 

Let's go down the line of things that make this one of the most divided updates I've ever encountered in this game to date... And that's saying something, as i played this back in Alpha with my uncle before i was invited to play legitimately in Beta on this account...

 

WARNING: HUGE POST INBOUND!


We'll start with posting quotes from my original forum post on the 9.18 update!
 

From this link: http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/543637-artillery-new-stun-mechanic-mixed-blessing/page__fromsearch__1

 

 

 

Now, let's keep on rolling right along and go into personal issues with this update, specificaly the imbalance between going from tier 6 artillery to tier 10.

* Tier 2 to tier 6 artillery is relatively balanced excluding the handful of oddballs like the FV304 which can now perma-track a tank without support and in turn kill heavies even at tier 8 on its own... This wouldn't bother me if it wasn't for the fact that this is the only artillery I've found capable of doing this at tier 6 or even tier 7! Whereas the next closest one able to do this is the tier 3 and 4 Russian artillery (SU-26 and SU-5)... 

* Artillery being restricted from joining a platoon when they were already restricted to only one artillery per platoon, is downright deplorable! Especially because it doesn't change ANYTHING! In fact, all it did was split the playerbase even further! You can still do count-downs and get 2 of your artillery friends to land in your game 7 out of 10 times! (we successfully got 6 M44's to drop in on the same game 8 times out of 10 count-downs) making this "needed change" a completely pointless one.

* Decreasing direct fire damage from an artillery makes artillery no longer artillery.  Tier 2 through tier 6 damage is perfectly fine. Tanks don't have a ton of health to chew through or ridiculous armor no one at lower tiers can penetrate. Once you get to tier 8 however tanks REGULARLY have upwards of 1500 hp and guns that can tear 800+ health off of you in one shot and reload faster than your artillery can! 

The basics of artillery now after tier 6:
*Has less penetration than a light tank

*Has less HP than a light tank in most cases

*Can't defend itself*
*Reloads longer than a heavy tank

*Has FAR less accuracy

*Cannot perform on par with (or surpass) heavy tanks making it pointless as a support vehicle for said heavies on the front line.

 

 

This is a kick in the teeth to those who have made it beyond tier 8 artillery. What's worse is artillery at tier 10 regularly bounce off of their target or do no damage.

 

From this forum:http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/548418-artillery-is-functioning-properly/page__fromsearch__1

 
Followup after having been killed by a T49 in a heavy tank as if he was an artillery peice (light tank doing 900 damage? That's unnecessary if artillery can't do more than 400!)

 

From this forum: http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/549154-arty-cant-derp-but-lights-can-something-inherently-wrong-with-this/

Edited by Lycan_Knight, Jul 10 2017 - 16:00.


Dishonest_John #528 Posted Jul 12 2017 - 14:28

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What does this all boil down to?

 

Remove arty from the game and that solves all the issues.


Edited by Dishonest_John, Jul 12 2017 - 14:32.


dratsaB_gumS #529 Posted Jul 13 2017 - 02:16

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Well, 9.19.1 came out and apparently WG did listen to two things: I can platoon again (sorta) and the 'trajectory camera' isn't quite so wild. I would still argue that trajectory camera shouldn't move at all, but my real complaint was that it was disorientingly sensitive to terrain.

So I'm pleased! now..  if only a visual auto-aim indicator and mod-able module damage sounds! :-)

Whistling_Death_ #530 Posted Jul 13 2017 - 16:49

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The destruction of artillery in the hated 9.18 patch is ruining this game.  Since artillery has been ruined, between 8,000 - 10,000 players have quit the game.  This is huge and very bad for the game. Wargaming North America jobs are on the line because of destroying artillery. Thousands of players sent tickets in protesting the destruction of artillery.  You did not listen.  Since the hated 9.18 patch, server populations have been in a huge decline.  Waragming, you made a very big mistake by destroying artillery.  It's time to recognize this and roll back the hated 9.18 patch, before it's too late.

Edited by Whistling_Death_, Jul 13 2017 - 16:51.


Heldar #531 Posted Jul 14 2017 - 05:47

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View PostWhistling_Death_, on Jul 13 2017 - 09:49, said:

The destruction of artillery in the hated 9.18 patch is ruining this game.  Since artillery has been ruined, between 8,000 - 10,000 players have quit the game.  This is huge and very bad for the game. Wargaming North America jobs are on the line because of destroying artillery. Thousands of players sent tickets in protesting the destruction of artillery.  You did not listen.  Since the hated 9.18 patch, server populations have been in a huge decline.  Waragming, you made a very big mistake by destroying artillery.  It's time to recognize this and roll back the hated 9.18 patch, before it's too late.

 

Youre right.  The only real fix to cancer is to remove it outright.

rappatap #532 Posted Jul 15 2017 - 04:08

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Why in the world are you guys messing with tank accuracy?

 

After recent updates, my arties have all lost accuracy to the point I don't enjoy playing it and have me thinking about quitting WOT entirely. My crew have 5-6 skills added each, so it's not a lack of skill or anything to do with my aim. 

 

Unfortunately this is also the case with other tanks as well. You have either reduced speed, reduced the number of shells in magazines, increased the rate of reloading magazines, or reduced the damage level of rounds, etc. etc. etc. I am at the point of being so unhappy with it, that again, I may quit playing this game all together. I've played for the last 2 years and you have made multiple "favorite tanks," my "least favorite tanks." I just can't understand how you guys can program out the best qualities of these tanks and expect players to continue playing.

 

Some of the changes you've made since I've been playing I can understand, and those changes have been a big plus to the game. Seriously awesome graphics, blast effects, water effects, and that list goes on a long, long way.

 

But other changes you have made, after working so long to get to the top of a tank tier tree, is nothing short of bait and switch. DON'T give a tank certain characteristics if you're just going to program it out in the future. It's just wrong, a waste of my and other players time, and will eventually make your old-time players leave to find another game or platform to play on. 

 

You guys, your programmers & designers, are seriously talented and have created a really cool game. But whoever in your team there is telling you to mess with accuracy  of a tank (the most important issue to me), is NOT helping you create a better game. They're doing precisely the opposite!

 

Thanks for providing a place to express our appreciation as well as our dissatisfaction. And thanks to the WOT team for the hard work and dedication to the game. It's been fun!

 

~ Rappatap



EmperorJuliusCaesar #533 Posted Jul 15 2017 - 04:13

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View Postrappatap, on Jul 14 2017 - 19:08, said:

Why in the world are you guys messing with tank accuracy?

 

After recent updates, my arties have all lost accuracy to the point I don't enjoy playing it and have me thinking about quitting WOT entirely. My crew have 5-6 skills added each, so it's not a lack of skill or anything to do with my aim. 

 

Unfortunately this is also the case with other tanks as well. You have either reduced speed, reduced the number of shells in magazines, increased the rate of reloading magazines, or reduced the damage level of rounds, etc. etc. etc. I am at the point of being so unhappy with it, that again, I may quit playing this game all together. I've played for the last 2 years and you have made multiple "favorite tanks," my "least favorite tanks." I just can't understand how you guys can program out the best qualities of these tanks and expect players to continue playing.

 

Some of the changes you've made since I've been playing I can understand, and those changes have been a big plus to the game. Seriously awesome graphics, blast effects, water effects, and that list goes on a long, long way.

 

But other changes you have made, after working so long to get to the top of a tank tier tree, is nothing short of bait and switch. DON'T give a tank certain characteristics if you're just going to program it out in the future. It's just wrong, a waste of my and other players time, and will eventually make your old-time players leave to find another game or platform to play on. 

 

You guys, your programmers & designers, are seriously talented and have created a really cool game. But whoever in your team there is telling you to mess with accuracy  of a tank (the most important issue to me), is NOT helping you create a better game. They're doing precisely the opposite!

 

Thanks for providing a place to express our appreciation as well as our dissatisfaction. And thanks to the WOT team for the hard work and dedication to the game. It's been fun!

 

~ Rappatap

 

"But other changes you have made, after working so long to get to the top of a tank tier tree, is nothing short of bait and switch. DON'T give a tank certain characteristics if you're just going to program it out in the future. It's just wrong, a waste of my and other players time, and will eventually make your old-time players leave to find another game or platform to play on. "

 

EXACTLY, unfortunately they aren't listening and the population is down.

 

 



EmperorJuliusCaesar #534 Posted Jul 15 2017 - 05:11

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View PostHeldar, on Jul 13 2017 - 20:47, said:

 

Youre right.  The only real fix to cancer is to remove it outright.

 

So you think a good business proposition if for WG to screw everyone who spent months to grind to a tier 10 Arty?   They don't.  They'd have to return all the XP, all the credits spent, all the gold spent on camo, and then you have the crews, all the crews would have to have all their crew xp returned.  It's not gonna happen, may as well get used to it.

Jaspo #535 Posted Jul 19 2017 - 05:19

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  • How does artillery feel to play compared to previous patch balance?

It's even easier. Now I really don't have to have any skill luck to hit the target. Oh, and the trajectory aim? It was a cheat before you put it into the vanilla and its still a cheat now. Way too much easy mode compared to top down view. Please remove it and ban it. Thank you.

  • How does artillery feel to play against compared to previous patch balance?

Heavy tanks are now obsolete, taking on average only 4-5 arty shots to be destroyed, and arty rarely misses now, meaning the expected lifespan of a heavy that is actively attempting its intended role is about 2-3 minutes, or long enough to fire maybe 4 shots at viable targets. Light tanks still get one-shot, and it seems arty can hit them more easily now also, certainly can stun them easily enough. All the changes do is encourage chai sniping as the most viable meta. Congratulations, you've now made this game World of Sniping Mediums, Arty, and Smoldering Wrecks, and are working directly against one of your own goals with this: to bring the battles closer and reduce sniping from tanks and classes not intended for it.

  • Do you find teamwork with artillery has improved?

Between the 3 artillery present on the enemy team on the battlefield? Oh yes, they love to focus me, even without communicating as much. Sooner the better. Teamwork in the way you intended, well maybe but its bad...if the intent is to have them soften up a flank so that their teammates can farm damage into it, particularly into the heavies, yes its effective, much too effective. The challenge with playing a heavy has always been and always will be the attempt to find positioning that will allow you to use armor to negate the inherent disadvantage that comes from not being able to relocate or retreat quickly. The challenge turns into obsolescence once HE comes into play, whether it be arty, or something like the KV2 or Type 5, since a heavy has no counter to it. At least in the case of something other than sky cancer, LOS is required for the derping. And the stun makes things even worse for heavies...heavies typically fight heavies, and typically that means the armor that they face is thick enough that their guns won't pen it unless they can aim for weak spots...all but impossible to do when stunned, in many cases.

  • How do you feel the economy for artillery has changed with this patch?

Arty players are doing just fine with their income. If they complain about ANYTHING having to do with their arty, it has to be because they've never played a heavy tank on an open map with 3 arty on the enemy team in their entire WoT career.

 

Addendum:

Reading through these posts, I'm seeing what has to be a lot of arty-only players, pitifully ignorant of how OP they were and still are, and how easy they have it compared to other classes, particularly TDs and Heavies. I know from playing arty...I could feel cheated certainly, if most of my shots miss in a battle, or the flank I'm camping behind gets overrun, or I get countered by arty watching my tracers, etc, etc...the thing is, this happens to all the classes in the game, not just arty, the only difference is that arty usually has the unique privilege of not having to worry about the enemy shooting back at them for most of the game. WHAT A PERK! So stop complaining, arty players. You've got it good. Really good. I've played arty plenty, I know.


Edited by Jaspo, Jul 19 2017 - 05:59.


Beo_2016 #536 Posted Jul 19 2017 - 17:27

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 thanks wg for down sizing the t-92. instead of 1 or 2 shots, it takes 4 to 5 now to kill someone.  with a 40 sec reload time i be lucky if i get 8 shots in the game.  The T-92 use to be the most powerful gun in the game. now it is the worst.  nice going!!!! and i do blame myself for the low scoring damage. at least wg could do is increase the speed for T-92 and add a little armour so the lights wont kill it so fast.  just my 2 cents here

gunship18 #537 Posted Jul 20 2017 - 15:05

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I hope they can fix the arty problem.....after the nerf my rounds go all over the place and if they hit it is for nominal damage or bounce. 

 



gunship18 #538 Posted Jul 20 2017 - 15:08

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The stats shown are arty are artificial based upon old stats for damage...WOT might want to consider showing the new damage parameters for arty and the bounce or stun ratio compared to damage.

UnDeadDemon956 #539 Posted Jul 22 2017 - 08:09

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View PostQuemapueblos, on Apr 18 2017 - 14:39, said:

Hello Tankers,

 

Today we launched patch 0.9.18 and we want to hear your feedback! There are separate topics for the major 0.9.18 changes, please leave all feedback for Artillery Changes in this thread. 

  • How does artillery feel to play compared to previous patch balance?
  • How does artillery feel to play against compared to previous patch balance?
  • Do you find teamwork with artillery has improved?
  • How do you feel the economy for artillery has changed with this patch?

 

Details of Artillery Changes:

Spoiler

 

Overview of Patch 0.9.18 Here

Full Patch Notes Here

 

Arty is more op than ever before, sure it may not kill you in oneshot anymore. But it's going to constantly hit you and when it does it stuns your crew rendering them useless. Oh just use a medkit you say, well medkits don't mean anything when you have 1, 2 or even three rapid firing arty all firing at you. You use your medkit and you get stunned again immediately after because there is another arty ready for the follow up shot. This stun effect is the worst addition to the game.

dratsaB_gumS #540 Posted Jul 26 2017 - 01:54

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Aaand I keep seeing two basic comments, either Arty is still OP or Arty has been nerfed to uselessness.
I joined WoT after arty was introduced, so I don't know what the battles were like before, but I do have some experience with Arty-Free battles. They tended to either by hyper-mobile with the very non-stop movement that protects people from Arty (OMG< I HATE when people move just as I pull the Arty trigger! ARGH!) or they were camp-fests when both sides realized they could just sit behind bushes and wait for the enemy to come to them. 
The changes in Arty have forced me to change how I play Arty and how I play non-Arty and I actually consider that more engaging.
I like the stun vs damage when I'm not in Arty, but I rarely use a Med-Kit for it.
I dislike the stun vs damage when I'm in Arty, but am adapting to it.
I still see the value of including Arty as another aspect of gameplay. I mean, I could just as easily say we should remove TDs, given that being destroyed by one shot from an invisible TD really sucks.
Or maybe we should remove the light tanks that spotted us for the hiding TDs? We could have WoT be just mediums and heavies. Each type of weapon has its strengths, its weaknesses, and its uses.
Since this is an Arty Change thread, I'll reiterate my primary complaint about the new arty:
I STILL dislike how the Battle Assistant works - they've toned it down, but aiming over the rise in Lakeville's 'valley' portion makes my view swing wildly up and down. It should be 'anticipated trajectory' only and if a tank is behind a rock, well, then, I guess I can't see it, right? Previous mod-based battle assistants just used the anticipated shell trajectory and that made it a snap to know if I did or didn't have enough arc.
PS - here's a link to my 4300+ Stun Damage in an M12 replay. Mind you, that was a one time thing I've not been able to repeat, but having stun and less direct damage can be worked with:
http://wotreplays.co...ratsab_gums-m12
 





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