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Grille 15 Buff is a must.


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Rin_ #41 Posted Apr 23 2017 - 21:56

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View PostSidekick2016, on Apr 23 2017 - 21:54, said:

 

Quit talking to me Reroll with only 53% win rate, you should have replied with your [edited]ter account then well talk.

 

This is my first account. Feel free to look at the time machine on any stats website. I started off red and worked my way up.

Edited by Rin_, Apr 23 2017 - 21:56.


Sidekick2016 #42 Posted Apr 23 2017 - 22:02

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View PostRin_, on Apr 23 2017 - 21:56, said:

 

This is my first account. Feel free to look at the time machine on any stats website. I started off red and worked my way up.

 

I am not arguing with you, you walked in as the amazing player with two tier 10's, and 15K battles. That's more than I have to argue for, walk off.

Edited by Sidekick2016, Apr 23 2017 - 22:05.


Sokolniki #43 Posted Apr 23 2017 - 22:39

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View PostSidekick2016, on Apr 23 2017 - 21:35, said:

 

I played the hellcat last week for the on track missions, it was horrible, not a fun tank. Playable but not fun. What do you think of the ISU 152, I think it should get nerffed out of this game.

 

ISU 152 is on a downward slide as far as winrate is concerned.  Among tier VIII's, is 77/85 with a 47.87% winrate.  While subpar, its not enough to justify a buff, and certainly not up for a nerf or a candidate for removal.  This is in spite of it being 21/85 for Damage Dealt per match.  Among Tier VIII TDs, it's 13/15 for Winrate and 6/15 for damage.  This is typical of vehicles that have strong early-game influences that have a hard time reacting to a dynamic mid or late-game scenario.  The Grille and the ISU both suffer weak late games, though the Grille more for its poor armor values making it an HE magnet, resulting in drastically shortened lifespan and more susceptible to significant amounts of crticial damage when engaged in late game, while the ISU suffers more for its poor mobility and its tendency to lose multiple modules and crew and even a significant chance of a shot passing through both the engine and the fuel tank due to the arrangement of the modules to the left of the gun mantlet.

Funny enough, the M18 Hellcat enjoys a 49.35% winrate, likely due to superb hulldown characteristics, significant mobility advantages over competing TD's and a superb gun.  If you try playing it like a medium though, you're going to get wrecked.

sugarcamp13 #44 Posted Apr 23 2017 - 23:16

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View PostSidekick2016, on Apr 23 2017 - 16:02, said:

 

 

I am not arguing with you, you walked in as the amazing player with two tier 10's, and 15K battles. That's more than I have to argue for, walk off.

Stop dismissing people based on authority (whether they own the tank or not/stats) and actually make an argument.
Yes, people can look a the stats of a tank, and with their knowledge of the game and its mechanics can come to a logical conclusion and have their own opinion. It's super annoying when people try to dismiss someone because they aren't "qualified" to have an opinion on it.
Just admit you're blaming the tank for being bad at the game and move on with your day



zarg12 #45 Posted Apr 23 2017 - 23:38

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View Postsugarcamp13, on Apr 23 2017 - 17:16, said:

Stop dismissing people based on authority (whether they own the tank or not/stats) and actually make an argument.
Yes, people can look a the stats of a tank, and with their knowledge of the game and its mechanics can come to a logical conclusion and have their own opinion. It's super annoying when people try to dismiss someone because they aren't "qualified" to have an opinion on it.
Just admit you're blaming the tank for being bad at the game and move on with your day

 

Are you saying that OP should use logic? Noooooooooo. That can't be. Logic / common sense is long dead.

Sidekick2016 #46 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 00:03

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View PostSokolniki, on Apr 23 2017 - 22:39, said:

 

ISU 152 is on a downward slide as far as winrate is concerned.  Among tier VIII's, is 77/85 with a 47.87% winrate.  While subpar, its not enough to justify a buff, and certainly not up for a nerf or a candidate for removal.  This is in spite of it being 21/85 for Damage Dealt per match.  Among Tier VIII TDs, it's 13/15 for Winrate and 6/15 for damage.  This is typical of vehicles that have strong early-game influences that have a hard time reacting to a dynamic mid or late-game scenario.  The Grille and the ISU both suffer weak late games, though the Grille more for its poor armor values making it an HE magnet, resulting in drastically shortened lifespan and more susceptible to significant amounts of crticial damage when engaged in late game, while the ISU suffers more for its poor mobility and its tendency to lose multiple modules and crew and even a significant chance of a shot passing through both the engine and the fuel tank due to the arrangement of the modules to the left of the gun mantlet.

Funny enough, the M18 Hellcat enjoys a 49.35% winrate, likely due to superb hulldown characteristics, significant mobility advantages over competing TD's and a superb gun.  If you try playing it like a medium though, you're going to get wrecked.

 

  So you agree that it can't carry, finaly.

 



Sidekick2016 #47 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 00:09

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View Postsugarcamp13, on Apr 23 2017 - 23:16, said:

Stop dismissing people based on authority (whether they own the tank or not/stats) and actually make an argument.
Yes, people can look a the stats of a tank, and with their knowledge of the game and its mechanics can come to a logical conclusion and have their own opinion. It's super annoying when people try to dismiss someone because they aren't "qualified" to have an opinion on it.
Just admit you're blaming the tank for being bad at the game and move on with your day

 

with all due respect we are not super computers here, we can't simulate 100 matches in our heads to come up with correct conclusions. Just farting something out your head just cause you read some article who has little experience with it does not qualify you to have a correct opinion. I have played 350 games on it, you have played NOTHING, it's like being a witness to a murder scene and you don't even know anything about it, you just read on paper that some random guy was murdered, no connection to him what's so ever just an article saying he was murdered, could have been suicide. But here you are arguing with no first hand info arguing. Jump on the public server and [edited]try it out for 50 games, not one or two, try to have a good win rate and good WN8 take that info down and come talk to me.

 

There are lots of videos who state why this tank is bad now, stay updated and go watch them, but you still don't have first hand experience where you say I wish I was a bit faster or my aim was not as bad when moving my turret or damn it why is the terrain crossing so horrible, damn my gun was on his hull and I missed. With no armor turning around is a pain cause you get spotted easy and you have no armor and you take forever to turn and you can't even reverse your hull cause the turret is not 360, No camo for armor less TD.


Edited by Sidekick2016, Apr 24 2017 - 00:14.


zarg12 #48 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 00:15

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View PostSidekick2016, on Apr 23 2017 - 18:09, said:

 

with all due respect we are not super computers here, we can't simulate 100 matches in our heads to come up with correct conclusions. Just farting something out your head just cause you read some article who has little experience with it does not qualify you to have a correct opinion. I have played 350 games on it, you have played NOTHING, it's like being a witness to a murder scene and you don't even know anything about it, you just read on paper that some random guy was murdered, no connection to him what's so ever just an article saying he was murdered, could have been suicide. But here you are arguing with no first hand info arguing. Jump on the public server and [edited]try it out for 50 games, not one or two, try to have a good win rate and good WN8 take that info down and come talk to me.

 

There are lots of videos who state why this tank is bad now, stay updated and go watch them, but you still don't have first hand experience where you say I wish I was a bit faster or my aim was not as bad when moving my turret or damn it why is the terrain crossing so horrible, damn my gun was on his hull and I missed.

 

TIL i have to be a master cook to know what I like to eat, I have to be a physicist to understand gravity and only medics can tell if I am sick.

Sidekick2016 #49 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 00:15

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View Postzarg12, on Apr 23 2017 - 23:38, said:

 

Are you saying that OP should use logic? Noooooooooo. That can't be. Logic / common sense is long dead.

 

you mean Super computer logic? That I don't have, all I have is first hand experience 350 games.

Sidekick2016 #50 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 00:17

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View Postzarg12, on Apr 24 2017 - 00:15, said:

 

TIL i have to be a master cook to know what I like to eat, I have to be a physicist to understand gravity and only medics can tell if I am sick.

 

You don't have to be a master cook to cook what you like it's just won't be as good, you can understand gravity but you won't be building satellites and sending them into space, you can be sick you just should not trust a medic cause a medic is not a doctor.

 



zarg12 #51 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 00:27

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View PostSidekick2016, on Apr 23 2017 - 18:17, said:

 

You don't have to be a master cook to cook what you like it's just won't be as good, you can understand gravity but you won't be building satellites and sending them into space, you can be sick you just should not trust a medic cause a medic is not a doctor.

 

 

You are so far up your own [edited]you can't even understand arguments anymore, just drop it. You are wrong and that is it.

Sidekick2016 #52 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 00:45

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View Postzarg12, on Apr 24 2017 - 00:27, said:

 

You are so far up your own [edited]you can't even understand arguments anymore, just drop it. You are wrong and that is it.

 

I don't understand? I drove this tank for 350 games and you know it better than me, and you don't even own it, you can argue with logic and I have no clue? Looks like WG listens to you, embarrassing for them.

Edited by Sidekick2016, Apr 24 2017 - 00:46.


zarg12 #53 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 00:52

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View PostSidekick2016, on Apr 23 2017 - 18:45, said:

 

I don't understand? I drove this tank for 350 games and you know it better than me, and you don't even own it, you can argue with logic and I have no clue? Looks like WG listens to you, embarrassing for them.

 

You don't own WG, therefor, you cannot make any judgement. How do you like that logic?

Sidekick2016 #54 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 01:09

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View Postzarg12, on Apr 24 2017 - 00:52, said:

 

You don't own WG, therefor, you cannot make any judgement. How do you like that logic?

 

I can make plenty of judgment cause it's not about owning it is about experiencing it together with the social aspect of how illogical you are and that's what brings me to some conclusion.

zarg12 #55 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 01:19

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View PostSidekick2016, on Apr 23 2017 - 19:09, said:

 

I can make plenty of judgment cause it's not about owning it is about experiencing it together with the social aspect of how illogical you are and that's what brings me to some conclusion.

 

So it's a 1 way argument? How cute. If it isn't about owning, then you have to admit you are an idiot and I can make rational conclusions when looking at the stats of the tank. Quit being so triggered.

Many times did I think "man this tank could be just that much better if it had theeeesee littttttttllllleeeeeee buffs" yet I don't run my mouth about it, because i know it's not a good idea. Like your idea of removing the nerfs of an EXCELLENT TD. I have nothing more to say to you, keep filling up that diaper of yours, it sure is accomplishing goals.

Sidekick2016 #56 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 01:33

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View Postzarg12, on Apr 24 2017 - 01:19, said:

 

So it's a 1 way argument? How cute. If it isn't about owning, then you have to admit you are an idiot and I can make rational conclusions when looking at the stats of the tank. Quit being so triggered.

Many times did I think "man this tank could be just that much better if it had theeeesee littttttttllllleeeeeee buffs" yet I don't run my mouth about it, because i know it's not a good idea. Like your idea of removing the nerfs of an EXCELLENT TD. I have nothing more to say to you, keep filling up that diaper of yours, it sure is accomplishing goals.

 

So your saying that If I had this tank and never had a match on it I would be same as someone who has 350 battles on it. NO just owning it is not the point, when I say owning it, I am meaning having grinded it and having used it, you need to own it to experience it, This is how this game works, you put in the effort and you can review it.

 

Again, it would be embarrassing for WG to keep listening to your kind of advice.


Edited by Sidekick2016, Apr 24 2017 - 01:36.


nickalaso123 #57 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 02:33

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View PostSidekick2016, on Apr 23 2017 - 13:35, said:

 

I played the hellcat last week for the on track missions, it was horrible, not a fun tank. Playable but not fun. What do you think of the ISU 152, I think it should get nerffed out of this game.

 

*chokes on water, then laughs, points finger at Defender and Skorpion G*

Aranai #58 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 02:38

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The Grille 15 isn't this horrible thing that people think it is, it is just less versatile now. I DO however think the Grille due to its paper armour SHOULD have the best accuracy and Penetration in the game. The Jageroo (Jagdpanzer E-100) has more penetration and Alpha damage I am pretty sure, nerf that and buff the Grille while making the Grille 15 less mobile but higher camouflage. That would make it more specific to "Hey, I've got a big death-ray, that is my only positive." and I would love to grind it out.

Aranai #59 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 02:39

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View Postnickalaso123, on Apr 24 2017 - 02:33, said:

 

*chokes on water, then laughs, points finger at Defender and Skorpion G*

 

Oh my god I totally agree.

Sokolniki #60 Posted Apr 24 2017 - 07:43

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View PostSidekick2016, on Apr 24 2017 - 00:03, said:

 

  So you agree that it can't carry, finaly.

 

 

The Grille 15 "carries" a game by putting out solid, accurate damage out early and often in a match, trying to build an early HP and numerical advantage against the enemy team with accurate gunfire.  It has a notoriously hard time trying to carry a late game situation due to the limited traverse on the turret, long reload and thin armor.  If you want to win more frequently with this TD, you have to get its gun firing early and often.

Your goal with the Grille 15 will be to either A: Build enough of a numerical advantage that the odds border on impossible for the enemy team to recover from, or B: build enough of a local superiority that when fighting in your sector ends and you and your teammates can redeploy in response to the enemy team's conditions on the other flank, you won't be too exposed to continue contributing to the next stage of fighting.

A vehicle that contributes solidly to the early stages of a match, but falters in the late stages is no worse off than a vehicle that struggles to contribute early in a match but enjoys great success at seizing opportunities that open up as fewer eyes and guns are left on the battlefield.  Where your winrate will suffer in either of these types of vehicles will be in how you handle the vehicle in the stages of a match or under circumstances that are less than ideal.  Looking at your 40% winrate in the Grille 15 after several hundred matches, I cannot help but suspect you may even be playing poorly under circumstances that it should actually be strong in.




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