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Example: XVM took over your game


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joelmomma #21 Posted May 15 2017 - 15:31

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View PostPipinghot, on May 15 2017 - 09:15, said:

I'd say the real problem is a mission to win by base capture, which is fundamentally silly.

 

Don't get me wrong, a win is a win, and I don't ever drive off cap to farm damage, but capping is nothing more than a backup plan. The best way to win the game is to destroy the enemy team. Capping is only for two reasons - if there are only a couple of surviving enemies and it's not worth the time to hunt them down or if you're losing but are in a position to sneak in a win by capping. Other than those two reasons, capping should never be the primary goal, any mission that explicitly rewards winning by capping is a bad mission and should never be in the game.

I disagree.  The cap is a place where you truly have to earn it.  You are in the open, usually from multiple directions.  It is usually a place where you don't want to be.  So, if you fight at the cap and win, then you have earned it.  It is the status quo to kill all that has left many caps a non fighting situation.  It is the status quo that has many teams not even returning to defend a cap because they assume players will drive off the cap.



Hellsfog #22 Posted May 15 2017 - 15:32

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View Postjoelmomma, on May 15 2017 - 09:12, said:

 

Wow, the problem XVM creates has been highlighted by your comment when completing mission is now rigging a match.

 

You're stretching with that comment. XVM has nothing to do with you wanting to rig a mission. Like Firemoth said, ban tank rewards missions since they encourage rigging. 

Mad_Dog_Seabee #23 Posted May 15 2017 - 15:36

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View Postjoelmomma, on May 15 2017 - 06:21, said:

Mission assigned by Wargaming is TankRewards Clear and Hold.  Mission condition is to win a game by base capture 5 times.  Problem:  three people on cap and 90% capture, two people drive off the cap with no enemy tanks spotted in order to "farm" damage and kills to pad XVM's Wn8.  This mission completion was not possible due to an add-on that exploits players' perception that Wn8 is "the credible statistical method."  Wargaming provides statistically valid in game stats.  Perfect example how XVM controls the game, and should be banned.

 

I completed that mission in a clan platoon instead of whining in the forums about how I couldn't do it solo. Did some damage to so my Wn8 increased and my WinRate increased.

Edited by Mad_Dog_Seabee, May 15 2017 - 15:36.


moon111 #24 Posted May 15 2017 - 15:36

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XVM can be very useful.  If I'm in an AMX 40 and there's a very good player in a heavy tank, just working with him can make a difference.  

Feel confident that if you track an enemy, this guy will take advantage of it.  The opposition might choose you to shoot over him.  

Sharing hit-points keeps him alive longer, and damn if the AMX40 doesn't bounce shots you'd swear should pen.  \

If the enemy flanks, they have to get through you before they get through him.  There's a lot of 'turd' tanks in the game.  

Many time to play them to their strengths, you have to play a support role.  XVM can let you know who and who not to work with and trust.  

 

As for worrying about missions... it's just not worth it.  Consider it a bonus if it happens, it happens.  But I wouldn't kill myself trying to accomplish it.  When 

missions first game out for getting female crews etc... the game was horrible for awhile.  



Pipinghot #25 Posted May 15 2017 - 15:41

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View Postjoelmomma, on May 15 2017 - 09:31, said:

I disagree.  The cap is a place where you truly have to earn it.

Trying too hard to cap is the cause of death for many, many teams.

View Postjoelmomma, on May 15 2017 - 09:31, said:

You are in the open, usually from multiple directions.  It is usually a place where you don't want to be.

Which is exactly why capping is only a fallback plan. Deliberately putting yourself in the open so people can use you for target practice is just bad playing. If you look at the best players in the game, they usually have very little capping and a lot of defending. When someone's cap average is too high that's a sure sign that you're looking at either a newbie or a n00b. Smart players only cap as a fallback plan.

Mad_Dog_Seabee #26 Posted May 15 2017 - 15:43

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View PostPipinghot, on May 15 2017 - 07:41, said:

Trying too hard to cap is the cause of death for many, many teams.

Which is exactly why capping is only a fallback plan. Deliberately putting yourself in the open so people can use you for target practice is just bad playing. If you look at the best players in the game, they usually have very little capping and a lot of defending. When someone's cap average is too high that's a sure sign that you're looking at either a newbie or a n00b. Smart players only cap as a fallback plan.

 

​This is what I have learned: Do not cap unless you're in a super heavy and no teammates can shove you off of it.

BattlecryGWJ #27 Posted May 15 2017 - 15:48

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View Postjoelmomma, on May 15 2017 - 08:15, said:

Why not wait on cap for the enemy to come to you, and kill them?  The answer is one would have to be a better player to kill from the cap usually with nowhere to run and on a time limit.

 

Why would I wait in the open, without cover or concealment, allowing the enemy to come in and set the terms of the engagement?  Quite often when my team lemmings up one side of the map, I hang back and cover cap from a position where I can out spot anyone sitting on cap.  When they roll up to cap and sit there its quite easy for me to put rounds out on them farming damage and defense points off them until they're dead or they figure out that they need to get off cap before they die.



zarg12 #28 Posted May 15 2017 - 15:55

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View PostNunya_000, on May 15 2017 - 08:52, said:

 

There is NO XP or credit bonus for killing the entire team.

 

Killing all red tanks does not necessarily give you more XP or credits.  Sometimes, more XP/Credits can be earned by capping.

 

There is a coefficient given to all players on the green team based on the total amount of damage done to the red team, However, the amount given is fairly small.....especially for the last little bit of HP on the last couple of red tanks left in a battle.

 

Going after the last couple of tanks only really benefits those players that actually do damage.  Everybody else gets pennies.  While capping does not give out much in the way of XP/Credits either, I will take the win everyday over chasing down the last couple of tanks.  However, if I am in a position to be the one that does damage to those red tanks, I'm not likely to be sitting in cap.   

 

"It's okay if we cap it's just faster anyway and gives almost no bonus but hey if it's me I'll absolutely leave and get more exp and creds because I am a hypocrite"

the_dude_76 #29 Posted May 15 2017 - 16:00

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View PostAguiwar, on May 15 2017 - 13:31, said:

 

Completely agree. People don't seem to understand that a win is a win, and that a win is more important to overall statistics that one or two more kills.

 

Of course some of us don't care about stats and are more interested in earning exp and credits...

Block Quote

  Besides, you get more credits and xp for a sure win than a risky play and loss

 

Trying to cap loses more games than it wins! Giving up an advantage by having some of the guns on your team sit idle like fish in a barrel makes no sense most of the time and yet it happens regularly.



the_dude_76 #30 Posted May 15 2017 - 16:03

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View PostNunya_000, on May 15 2017 - 13:52, said:

Killing all red tanks does not necessarily give you more XP or credits.  Sometimes, more XP/Credits can be earned by capping.

The key word being "sometimes", it's no coincidence that 9 times out of 10 the guys with the cap points aren't in the top 5 exp earners



lauchlin #31 Posted May 15 2017 - 16:07

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View Post84Doc04, on May 15 2017 - 09:51, said:

 

That's just silly.  If you have tanks with zero damage, that's not XVM's fault, they just suck.  You don't perform badly because you have bad stats...   You get bad stats because you play like crap.

 

try being the only green player on your team

Nunya_000 #32 Posted May 15 2017 - 16:08

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View Postzarg12, on May 15 2017 - 06:55, said:

 

"It's okay if we cap it's just faster anyway and gives almost no bonus but hey if it's me I'll absolutely leave and get more exp and creds because I am a hypocrite"

 

What exactly is hypocritical about it???  While capping provides only minimal XP/Credits, more credits CAN be had by actually doing damage.  If I have the option to earn more XP/Credits by doing damage (and not risking a loss), I will most certainly do it.  If I am not in a position to actually do damage to the last couple of tanks, expect me to get as much XP/Credits possible by capping....plus, it also could get me back to the garage faster so I can earn more XP/Credits in a new battle.  So what exactly is hypocritical about doing what I need to do to maximize my XP/Credits in all cases?



Nunya_000 #33 Posted May 15 2017 - 16:11

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View Postthe_dude_76, on May 15 2017 - 07:03, said:

The key word being "sometimes", it's no coincidence that 9 times out of 10 the guys with the cap points aren't in the top 5 exp earners

 

And chances are that the team killing all red tanks will not change their position as XP earners.  

sherman600 #34 Posted May 15 2017 - 16:18

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View PostYANKEE137, on May 15 2017 - 14:38, said:

Maybe I'm being unfair, but when I see four or five top tanks with 0 damage at the end of the game, I blame XVM.

yeah, that or: 1.) all their damage was assisted damage, or 2.) they're just campers

View Postjoelmomma, on May 15 2017 - 14:21, said:

Mission assigned by Wargaming is TankRewards Clear and Hold.  Mission condition is to win a game by base capture 5 times.  Problem:  three people on cap and 90% capture, two people drive off the cap with no enemy tanks spotted in order to "farm" damage and kills to pad XVM's Wn8.  This mission completion was not possible due to an add-on that exploits players' perception that Wn8 is "the credible statistical method."  Wargaming provides statistically valid in game stats.  Perfect example how XVM controls the game, and should be banned.

That's what i've been thinking ever since i heard of it

View PostCelticArchangel, on May 15 2017 - 15:15, said:

 

See, this is the bull**** right here that I hate. You're not going to make millions of dollars and exp off that last kill. 
The different between a full clear win and a cap win are negligible. Winning is winning. You want those kills, work for them. I hate people who throw matches because they're sporting a chubby for kills. 

 

so, are you against XVM, or w/ it?

SuperTankDriver #35 Posted May 15 2017 - 17:00

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View Postjoelmomma, on May 15 2017 - 14:31, said:

I disagree.  The cap is a place where you truly have to earn it.  You are in the open, usually from multiple directions.  It is usually a place where you don't want to be.  So, if you fight at the cap and win, then you have earned it.  It is the status quo to kill all that has left many caps a non fighting situation.  It is the status quo that has many teams not even returning to defend a cap because they assume players will drive off the cap.

 

One of the person on your side basically said that capping is the "safest way to win", and that running around for the last few kills "often throws matches", which is false anyway. And then you're here saying that winning by cap should be treated as some sort of god achievement because it's very risky and all, which completely contradicts your own/your side's argument.

Lesser_Spotted_Panzer #36 Posted May 15 2017 - 17:25

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I agree that it is a poor metric, but it does give you an indication of which players are the most dangerous on the enemy team, and if you have a choice between shooting two equal enemy tanks, always shoot the purple guy first:teethhappy:

 

Information is power.

 



Cossack_13 #37 Posted May 15 2017 - 17:53

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I wish I had 10 gold for every time I've seen a team snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by refusing to cap. Over the weekend, I saw one team blow a 7 - 3 game because they wouldn't cap and 2 hot shooters on the disadvantaged team killed all 7 of the "almost winner" team.

 

I don't blame XVM for giving folks additional info just because some players use the info so badly. In one game yesterday, one player started chatting before the counter went off: "crap another fail team" and "I think I'll just go drown myself."  That coming from a guy with a 9500+ rating in a WT auf Pz. IV just added a level of annoyance to that game.

I don't know if he did drown himself or not but he ended the game with 0 damage done (we won though).



joelmomma #38 Posted May 15 2017 - 18:16

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View PostHellsfog, on May 15 2017 - 09:32, said:

 

You're stretching with that comment. XVM has nothing to do with you wanting to rig a mission. Like Firemoth said, ban tank rewards missions since they encourage rigging. 

 

Again, someone saying winning by a cap is rigging.  A cap is in the rules of engagement.

joelmomma #39 Posted May 15 2017 - 18:18

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View PostMad_Dog_Seabee, on May 15 2017 - 09:36, said:

 

I completed that mission in a clan platoon instead of whining in the forums about how I couldn't do it solo. Did some damage to so my Wn8 increased and my WinRate increased.

 

There is no requirement to be in a clan or a platoon to complete this mission.  Try to keep shaming within your clan channel.

joelmomma #40 Posted May 15 2017 - 18:20

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View PostPipinghot, on May 15 2017 - 09:41, said:

Trying too hard to cap is the cause of death for many, many teams.

Which is exactly why capping is only a fallback plan. Deliberately putting yourself in the open so people can use you for target practice is just bad playing. If you look at the best players in the game, they usually have very little capping and a lot of defending. When someone's cap average is too high that's a sure sign that you're looking at either a newbie or a n00b. Smart players only cap as a fallback plan.

 

WE are talking about a mission to cap.




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