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Nunya_000 #61 Posted May 17 2017 - 16:57

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View Postthe_dude_76, on May 17 2017 - 07:35, said:

2-3 minutes?? Really?? I thought we weren't talking about fast capping?? Because unless there are a lot of enemy tanks left on the other team it would rarely take that much time to finish the match. 

 

 

I have seen it take that long, especially when the last tank is a LT being chased by a bunch of HTs....or an arty that has never been spotted and the team needs to find him first.  Though I will admit that the 2-3 minutes probably is not the norm....though it can feel like it takes that long sometimes.

 

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After all, the average match only lasts about 5 minutes so the idea that you'd have to sit and wait around for half of the match while your teammates finishes off the other team isn't very realistic.

 

Just because the AVERAGE battle is 5 minutes long, that does not mean that ALL battles are only 5 minutes long.  To claim that a 2-3 minute "hunt" is taking the time of half of that specific battle is a complete fallacy.

 

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The bottom line for me is this- the matches where everyone earns the most are the matches where all of the enemy tanks are killed. The matches where many enemy tanks are left alive result in significantly lower scores for everyone. You can earn as much in a great battle that results in a loss than you can winning a battle that leaves half of the enemy alive. For me the math on that is pretty easy. 9 times out of 10 the additional percentage of earning will outweigh the additional percentage of time spent because the amount of time spent in the average battle is a small number to begin with

 

I pay very close attention to the amount of XP and credits I earn in each battle in relationship to the amount of damage I do (I'm a little OCD).  I have seen very little difference between a win by capping vs a win by killing all with similar damage.  The exception being fast caps, which little XP/Credits are earned by all because the amount of damage done by everyone is low.  If half the red tam is still alive (7-8 tanks), I would classify that as a "fast cap".

 

As I have mentioned over and over again, if I am not in a position to do the damage myself, I will cap to end the battle if I am in a position to do so (though I feel I am normally smart about WHEN to cap).  That is the best option for me.  Sure, I might get off of cap if someone needs one last kill for TG, or if politely asked to do so.  However, I am not normally going to wait around for the team to chase down 1 or 2 red tanks with little HP left (and I am talking about 1 or 2 red tanks being left).  I do not care about your epeen.  How many XP/Credits you earn has no relevance to me.  I would expect the same attitude being given to me by other players.  While this game is played in a team format, it is really an individual game in regards to XP/Credits earned.

 



Cossack_13 #62 Posted May 17 2017 - 19:04

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View Postthe_dude_76, on May 16 2017 - 10:00, said:

 

But if you had to give 10 gold every time you see a team snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by TRYING to cap you'd go broke...

 

False dichotomy. The cries for "no cap" usually come when the cap strategy is working fine but they want to abandon that bird in the hand.

Pipinghot #63 Posted May 18 2017 - 00:41

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View Postthe_dude_76, on May 17 2017 - 10:18, said:

View PostPipinghot, on May 16 2017 - 16:54, said:

It does for the person capping.

 

If you are trying to chase down and kill the 1 or 2 opponents that are still left, and you want someone to leave cap while you to it, you are asking them to give up their credits and XP so that you can have it instead. That's just selfishness talking.

I never ask someone to get off of cap but I don't hesitate to do it myself if I see someone else is about to get another kill.

You might not ask for it, but a lot of other people do, and usually for misguided reasons, because they over estimate the amount of XP & credits that the team will get when they get their kills. You certainly have the the right to leave cap for the benefit of other players, we each have things we do in the name of teamwork, but that doesn't mean people in general have the right to expect that people will get off cap for them.

View Postthe_dude_76, on May 17 2017 - 10:18, said:

Because the reality is that cap points are next to worthless, especially if there are multiple tanks on cap.

The equal reality is that killing that last enemy tank or two (especially if they are tanks that don't have a lot of hit points to begin with) is next to worthless, because the amount of XP and credits that everyone on the team will get for those hit points is very small. A significant cause for this social problem is that people overestimate the value of killing the last couple of tanks.

View Postthe_dude_76, on May 17 2017 - 10:18, said:

And isn't it equally selfish to deny someone else the opportunity to earn real exp and credits

Except that you're not denying them anything. When you look at the math balancing time vs. the XP and credits you get, in nearly all cases it is more efficient just to cap and move on to the next game. There are far, far too many cases of people chasing enemies around the map for 3-5 minutes when the game could have long been ended. The bulk of XP and credits are earned up front in battles, in the first third or half of the battle, with the remainder slowly trickling in as the remaining enemies are killed. If you look at the XP & credits you earn per minute, in most cases it is more efficient to cap after half of the enemy team is dead and move on to the next battle, assuming that you have the opportunity to cap by this time. If you don't have the opportunity yet, then of course you focus on killing enemy tanks as quickly as possible to get to the conclusion of the battle. But by the time your team reaches the position of being able to cap, it is almost always more efficient to cap and move on to the next battle than to slowly drag out the process of killing every last enemy tank.

 

If an enemy can be killed in the time that it takes to complete capping, well then it was efficient to go ahead and kill that enemy, but if they can't be killed in time then it was not more efficient, and the extra XP and credits you earn per minute while hunting them down is not really worthwhile.

View Postthe_dude_76, on May 17 2017 - 10:18, said:

just so you can pick up a fraction of a fraction of the same for yourself??

There is the root cause of the problem, overestimating how much XP and credits the team gets per minute when hunting down the remaining enemy tanks. If you spend 1-2 minutes chasing down a single tank, then you are wasting the time of everyone on your team when they could have moved on to the next battle. You can't stop at comparing the XP & credit value of the remaining tanks vs. the XP & credit value of capping that is bad logic and false math, you also have to factor the XP and credits per minute that the whole team (including you) are losing while waiting for the final enemies to be killed. If you just finish the battle quickly and efficiently then everyone on your team, including you, will earn higher average XP & credits per minute by moving on to the next battle.



Pipinghot #64 Posted May 18 2017 - 00:55

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View Postthe_dude_76, on May 17 2017 - 10:35, said:

The bottom line for me is this- the matches where everyone earns the most are the matches where all of the enemy tanks are killed.

But not always the most per minute of playing.

 

If the entire battle lasts 3-5 minutes, then yes it is usually more efficient to finish killing the enemy team, but if you're on a map where it will take 2+ minutes just to find and kill one or two remaining survivors, then no it's not more efficient.



Pipinghot #65 Posted May 18 2017 - 00:59

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View PostCossack_13, on May 17 2017 - 13:04, said:

False dichotomy. The cries for "no cap" usually come when the cap strategy is working fine but they want to abandon that bird in the hand.

It's more like one-third.

 

About a third of the time one or more people will call for "no cap" when the game is in the bag and they want to hunt down every surviving enemy, no matter how long it takes and no matter how much it's wasting everyone's time.

About a third of the time one or more people will call for "no cap" because it actually would be efficient to finish off the last couple of enemies.

And about a third of the time one or more people will call for "no cap" even when the battle is still in doubt. There are way too many people who can't tell when capping is a good idea and getting off cap is taking an unnecessary risk of losing the game.

 

And just to be clear - I'm not dividing up all battles into those three categories - most of the time capping or not capping is not even an issue, I'm specifically dividing up the battles when people start calling for "no cap".


Edited by Pipinghot, May 18 2017 - 01:00.





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