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Please fix live oaks map for north spawn

live oaks sucks worstmapna

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GETL0W #1 Posted May 17 2017 - 22:50

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Live oaks map is severely imbalanced for north spawn. South spawn gets faster timing to the inlet on the H line. North team gets stuck in that yellow circle aka "bowl of death" and poked down from hulldown tanks on all sides. the only way to win 9-0 line on this map for north spawn is to send most of their team or just have a stupidly imbalanced amount of mediums comparatively, in which case you lose town badly. Even if you have td's camping back on the white x's they are still in spotting range and have 0 cover compared to south spawns td's/snipers having ridge lines to cover behind. That and the E line hill are both examples of how screwed north spawn is on this map. Please remove it from rotation and re-balance it or just delete it. Unless someone has some sort of magical answer to not losing north side on live oaks (not counting when mm puts 15 decent players on north to fight 15 tomatos south) I'm thoroughly convinced that this map is broken. 



Thrain_Ironsword #2 Posted May 17 2017 - 22:55

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Can't either team go down into that bowl and get killed?  I thought the north team could also stop before they go over that hill that goes into the bowl and do the same thing that you are saying the south team can.

Al_Capones_Gang #3 Posted May 17 2017 - 22:58

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Can't forget this 

Spoiler

 



Dirizon #4 Posted May 17 2017 - 23:01

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North spawn does have an easier way to painlessly stroll into town, even for box tanks like Maus or Type 5. 

South should concentrate on holding E1-3 defensively, while advantageously push 8,9,O. 

North should focus town and cleanup if South was foolish to send units town - then immediately after defeating enemies within town should return to Spawn using A Row. 

 

Point of Live 0aks is studying the map, always. Even after winning a flank,  you shouldn't so lazily or silly just ride on to cap unless you outnumber remainders by margin. Live 0aks is a map you constantly focus on and study, and see how it develops. Returning back to base after defeating Town / Bridges is almost always better. There are a lot more crumby maps than this. Highway is worse.

 



madogthefirst #5 Posted May 17 2017 - 23:03

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View PostAl_Capones_Gang, on May 17 2017 - 13:58, said:

Can't forget this 

Spoiler

 

I still remember that one patch where they pointed out how you can now cross though the center of the swamp which is nearly impossible.



GETL0W #6 Posted May 17 2017 - 23:11

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View PostDirizon, on May 17 2017 - 23:01, said:

North spawn does have an easier way to painlessly stroll into town, even for box tanks like Maus or Type 5. 

South should concentrate on holding E1-3 defensively, while advantageously push 8,9,O. 

North should focus town and cleanup if South was foolish to send units town - then immediately after defeating enemies within town should return to Spawn using A Row. 

 

Point of Live 0aks is studying the map, always. Even after winning a flank,  you shouldn't so lazily or silly just ride on to cap unless you outnumber remainders by margin. Live 0aks is a map you constantly focus on and study, and see how it develops. Returning back to base after defeating Town / Bridges is almost always better. There are a lot more crumby maps than this. Highway is worse.

 

 

So your saying to go city even if you are in a medium/light/td? How do you not to get sniped to death from e line hill? They have every advantage here, even their scouts can shut down over half of your usable space just by sitting in e4 bush. your team going into town is vulnerable while entering from e line and arty. south spawn has hard cover, concealment, better spotting locations etc etc. Also if north stops before the bowl the same thing happens because they still can surround you and poke you down while cancelling out any supporting fire you could get by just putting a light tank or something in e4 making it impossible to sit anywhere a,b,c lines specifically c6.

Edited by GETL0W, May 17 2017 - 23:14.


Dirizon #7 Posted May 17 2017 - 23:54

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Light t

View PostGETL0W, on May 17 2017 - 23:11, said:

 

So your saying to go city even if you are in a medium/light/td? How do you not to get sniped to death from e line hill? They have every advantage here, even their scouts can shut down over half of your usable space just by sitting in e4 bush. your team going into town is vulnerable while entering from e line and arty. south spawn has hard cover, concealment, better spotting locations etc etc. Also if north stops before the bowl the same thing happens because they still can surround you and poke you down while cancelling out any supporting fire you could get by just putting a light tank or something in e4 making it impossible to sit anywhere a,b,c lines specifically c6.

 

Light tanks can offer somewhat safe active scout paths early on using draw ranges and moving as fast as possible. There are many open area bushes, though keep wary of blind fires. Then you regulate yourself to C row, 9-O columns bush spotting. Either side works. lf you are a high camo tank like 59-16 or ELC Bs, you can even push that to D row. Just don't fire. E25 does it too,  and what you essentially do is spot for TDs and medium tanks A-B O line, camping the fenced/gravel pit area with railcars. This puts the oncoming south forces in a low ground disadvantage, that may not even be able to spot shooting enemies because of draw. Unfortunately, a team needs to coordinate with good passive scouts to do that sort of strat - very improbable to say the least.  the point is, north should be conceding ground brdiges and rails, to fight enemies their terms - not to fight over ground on Souths Terms. 

 

Certain TDs should go Town. T95, JagPzE, Tortoise - they serve as heavy tanks. Certain medium tanks like T62A or 14O or Action X, are general purpose and hardened enough that with the new 3/5/7 split can even act like heavy tanks. Light fire support TDs and Medium-Light skins, like AMX3O or Leopard or STB1 can safely do a skirmish assessment at F0 ridges, then flee back to sniper spots A-B O and wait for on comers. As most oncoming forces will be using O instead of 9. 

 

Bad map though. But not as bad as highway. All it is, is send forces Town and cleanup there, then head back to base and wait the other push. South, to where there is Med/Light tank advantage river, highly depends on stupid deployment of North guys pushing south into unfavourable ground. Whereas South pushing town is unfavourable. lt is a game of cards, where stupid decisions are always made. 



GETL0W #8 Posted May 17 2017 - 23:58

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View PostDirizon, on May 17 2017 - 23:54, said:

Light t

 

Light tanks can offer somewhat safe active scout paths early on using draw ranges and moving as fast as possible. There are many open area bushes, though keep wary of blind fires. Then you regulate yourself to C row, 9-O columns bush spotting. Either side works. lf you are a high camo tank like 59-16 or ELC Bs, you can even push that to D row. Just don't fire. E25 does it too,  and what you essentially do is spot for TDs and medium tanks A-B O line, camping the fenced/gravel pit area with railcars. This puts the oncoming south forces in a low ground disadvantage, that may not even be able to spot shooting enemies because of draw. Unfortunately, a team needs to coordinate with good passive scouts to do that sort of strat - very improbable to say the least.  the point is, north should be conceding ground brdiges and rails, to fight enemies their terms - not to fight over ground on Souths Terms. 

 

Certain TDs should go Town. T95, JagPzE, Tortoise - they serve as heavy tanks. Certain medium tanks like T62A or 14O or Action X, are general purpose and hardened enough that with the new 3/5/7 split can even act like heavy tanks. Light fire support TDs and Medium-Light skins, like AMX3O or Leopard or STB1 can safely do a skirmish assessment at F0 ridges, then flee back to sniper spots A-B O and wait for on comers. As most oncoming forces will be using O instead of 9. 

 

Bad map though. But not as bad as highway. All it is, is send forces Town and cleanup there, then head back to base and wait the other push. South, to where there is Med/Light tank advantage river, highly depends on stupid deployment of North guys pushing south into unfavourable ground. Whereas South pushing town is unfavourable. lt is a game of cards, where stupid decisions are always made. 

 

well that's exactly the problem your only viable defensive position is to camp behind your spawn which cool you got some chai sniping done but the other 5 tanks who went down 9-0 are dead and you are now getting 8 gun barrels shoved up your [edited]. 

PAVSon #9 Posted May 18 2017 - 00:07

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All things being equal . . . the map is designed for either team to get to the bridge at roughly the same time. The better players I've watched push across to the opposite side of the bridge and typically dominate the team that is more passive. What you describe is either a team with a slower comp and/or more passive deployment.

 

I've watched several of the better streamers quite a bit and most will always push across even if they take a shot to do it. The more smart/aggressive team on the rail line (pretty much anywhere for that matter) generally prevails.



GETL0W #10 Posted May 18 2017 - 00:15

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View PostPAVSon, on May 18 2017 - 00:07, said:

All things being equal . . . the map is designed for either team to get to the bridge at roughly the same time. The better players I've watched push across to the opposite side of the bridge and typically dominate the team that is more passive. What you describe is either a team with a slower comp and/or more passive deployment.

 

I've watched several of the better streamers quite a bit and most will always push across even if they take a shot to do it. The more smart/aggressive team on the rail line (pretty much anywhere for that matter) generally prevails.

 

the problem is if you go over and get down into the water you are isolated and your team cant help you because if they crest the hill for shots down there they get rekt while you are getting swarmed. 

PAVSon #11 Posted May 18 2017 - 00:23

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View PostGETL0W, on May 17 2017 - 18:15, said:

 

the problem is if you go over and get down into the water you are isolated and your team cant help you because if they crest the hill for shots down there they get rekt while you are getting swarmed. 

 

Here is a video Zeven posted a long time ago on how to approach it. I'm just a mid tier scrub, but Zeven knows what he's talking about. And yes the video is old, but if you watched him play you would see he still approaches it the same way.

 

 



Altwar #12 Posted May 18 2017 - 01:16

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View Postmadogthefirst, on May 17 2017 - 14:03, said:

I still remember that one patch where they pointed out how you can now cross though the center of the swamp which is nearly impossible.

 

Though I haven't tried it, I thought it was still possible to go thru there, if you have the inclination to be an XP piñata...

Nonamanadus #13 Posted May 18 2017 - 05:17

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North or south, the team that utilizes support fire the best wins the track route (either by good teamwork or the blob method). I have no issue with either spawn regarding this issue. 

GETL0W #14 Posted May 18 2017 - 05:54

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View PostPAVSon, on May 18 2017 - 00:23, said:

 

Here is a video Zeven posted a long time ago on how to approach it. I'm just a mid tier scrub, but Zeven knows what he's talking about. And yes the video is old, but if you watched him play you would see he still approaches it the same way.

 

 

 

This video is fine but if you are solo pubbing you cant really rely on unicums or a platoon to help push south. 

zed2204 #15 Posted May 18 2017 - 08:34

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That map got even more disbalanced , the only advantage on 9-0 the North had was that Arty was closer and had better shots, that deterred the paper tanks going there, now you can count on everything reasonably mobile from South to be there

Grasschopper #16 Posted May 18 2017 - 19:45

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Really the team that wins this map is the team that recognizes that the city is utterly worthless and sends NO ONE there.  Seriously, much like Highway it's SUPER easy to defend your cap from either side if you send 0 tanks to the city.

PAVSon #17 Posted May 18 2017 - 23:33

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View PostGETL0W, on May 17 2017 - 23:54, said:

 

This video is fine but if you are solo pubbing you cant really rely on unicums or a platoon to help push south. 

 

WOW! When you put your blinders on . . . you really put them on tight don't you! 

GETL0W #18 Posted May 19 2017 - 02:06

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View PostPAVSon, on May 18 2017 - 23:33, said:

 

WOW! When you put your blinders on . . . you really put them on tight don't you! 

 

Watch this replay its from just now. tell me what to do differently because idk. http://wotreplays.co...da3f072cc90ed79 also out of the last 9 games on this map i have been on north side every time and only one 1 time. 

Edited by GETL0W, May 19 2017 - 02:08.






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