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SGarv #1 Posted May 18 2017 - 04:02

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 Here is an issue to fix. Clan A starts an advance. Clan B starts and advance. After the first battle, Clan B, we'll call this team "LAOD" switches all the players out of the Advance and puts in a whole new team, this team is 500 PR better than the team they queued with. WG should have the Advance based on the Clan average PR instead of the team average is Clans are going to go to the effort of gaming the system.

Cent72 #2 Posted May 18 2017 - 04:15

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Does a 500 pr difference really matter? We face clans differing on a range from Bulba/-G-/Vilin to clans i have never heard of. I don't think getting matched with "LAOD" based off 15 of their players and then fighting with 15 of their other better players is a problem.

CelticArchangel #3 Posted May 18 2017 - 04:21

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Let's say for a second this is in fact happening and is in fact impeding other teams from progressing by this sneaking way of greatly improving their odds.... how video game companies haven't foreseen and STILL can't see this kind of behavior before hand without putting up safeguards is beyond me.  

SGarv #4 Posted May 18 2017 - 04:22

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well, ok, I threw a number out there, team B was more like 2000 PR different, the point remains, settling up an Advance with a bait and switch team is just trolly. WG has spent some effort trying to build the player base by making the environment more friendly for everyone and these tactics are destroying that effort.

dunniteowl #5 Posted May 18 2017 - 04:31

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Maybe Clan Wars should be required to submit a list of RSVPd players in their Clan?  If those players don't show up for a match, only designated "secondarys" already on the list could 'fill in.'  If there is no listed secondary, that position goes on the board unfilled.  In other words, you start a man short.

 

Would that solve it?  Or at least reduce the potential for abuse?



jamesboss #6 Posted May 18 2017 - 04:36

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View PostCent72, on May 18 2017 - 04:15, said:

Does a 500 pr difference really matter? We face clans differing on a range from Bulba/-G-/Vilin to clans i have never heard of. I don't think getting matched with "LAOD" based off 15 of their players and then fighting with 15 of their other better players is a problem.

 

to a mahou player i don't need to explain how the system of advances works so the only time you will face a clan way below your PR rating is when you're the only 2 clans in the queue i know its not a problem for you becouse you're uselly on the winning end of it and personally i don't care but there a lot of clans that wants to play this mode to level up there stroghold and its not fair for them that other good clans are tricking the systeme to play low rating clans becouse they are afraid to face clan on there level !!

SGarv #7 Posted May 18 2017 - 04:37

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View Postdunniteowl, on May 18 2017 - 04:31, said:

Maybe Clan Wars should be required to submit a list of RSVPd players in their Clan?  If those players don't show up for a match, only designated "secondarys" already on the list could 'fill in.'  If there is no listed secondary, that position goes on the board unfilled.  In other words, you start a man short.

 

Would that solve it?  Or at least reduce the potential for abuse?

 

Some clans have a difficult time filling the 15 for a tier 10 match. Additionally, we dont want to make it harder to do an Advance (as opposed to a Clan War battle). It would be simpler and easier to use the Clan PR average to match up an Advance battle.



Cent72 #8 Posted May 18 2017 - 04:54

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View Postjamesboss, on May 17 2017 - 22:36, said:

 

to a mahou player i don't need to explain how the system of advances works so the only time you will face a clan way below your PR rating is when you're the only 2 clans in the queue i know its not a problem for you becouse you're uselly on the winning end of it and personally i don't care but there a lot of clans that wants to play this mode to level up there stroghold and its not fair for them that other good clans are tricking the systeme to play low rating clans becouse they are afraid to face clan on there level !!

 

You realize wargaming has already made it so you gain boxes by losing and dont have your buildings burned compared to the old stronghold raid system right? Would you rather they match you against bots every night and start you at a max stronghold? Is it not fair that the best nfl team wins the superbowl or that the best athlete wins the gold medal? Should i only have to run the 100m dash against other people the same speed as me?

ff8ff8 #9 Posted May 18 2017 - 05:02

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They could also have had a CW match pop around that time.

Raseri_ #10 Posted May 18 2017 - 05:03

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View PostCent72, on May 17 2017 - 19:54, said:

 

You realize wargaming has already made it so you gain boxes by losing and dont have your buildings burned compared to the old stronghold raid system right? Would you rather they match you against bots every night and start you at a max stronghold? Is it not fair that the best nfl team wins the superbowl or that the best athlete wins the gold medal? Should i only have to run the 100m dash against other people the same speed as me?

 

He would rather have hand outs. And participation trophies.

Cent72 #11 Posted May 18 2017 - 05:04

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View Postff8ff8, on May 17 2017 - 23:02, said:

They could also have had a CW match pop around that time.

 

Honestly this didn't occur to me but this happens to us almost nightly. Do we field 1 team and keep some left over for cw or do we field 2 teams? We often send our a team into the advance, have them fight the cw and then back to the advance depending on who we are fighting. Who has time for rigging advances by elo tanking tbh.

Redwave11 #12 Posted May 18 2017 - 05:11

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I can assure you this was not what we were trying to do when we faced you. We had a clan battle that was starting at the same time as the advance and only had ~20 players to fill both battles. So we grabbed 5 legionnaires (admittedly not the best players) then swapped them out when our battle on the global map finished.

 

That being said, i thought the advances were calculated by clan elo not PR.

 

If it is by PR then i think it should be fixed. But conversely if it was calculated by clan mean PR then you could have low skill clans bring 5 unicum legionaires to 'rig' the matchmaker.


Edited by Redwave11, May 18 2017 - 05:15.


CryHarder_xD #13 Posted May 18 2017 - 05:15

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They should just give me 15k gold instead :)

YourLieInApril #14 Posted May 18 2017 - 05:29

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View PostCryHarder_xD, on May 17 2017 - 23:15, said:

They should just give me 15k gold instead :)

 

especially after WG pulled that "we're actually gonna take the 9k gold away that u earned in wargames" bc wot is already bad... XDDDDD

jamesboss #15 Posted May 18 2017 - 07:55

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View PostRedwave11, on May 18 2017 - 05:11, said:

I can assure you this was not what we were trying to do when we faced you. We had a clan battle that was starting at the same time as the advance and only had ~20 players to fill both battles. So we grabbed 5 legionnaires (admittedly not the best players) then swapped them out when our battle on the global map finished.

 

That being said, i thought the advances were calculated by clan elo not PR.

 

If it is by PR then i think it should be fixed. But conversely if it was calculated by clan mean PR then you could have low skill clans bring 5 unicum legionaires to 'rig' the matchmaker.

 

like i said personally i don't care actually i would love to face G or mahou or any good clan everytime because i will learn more about what they do and why they do it just by playing them yes you will take a beating most of the time but you will learn more . what i was talking about is why trick the system !! if you guys did that on purpose its a really low way of gaining boxes 
and by the way just to answer the mahou player saying who has time rigging advances !!! there are a lot of clan doing that my friend didn't post the topic  because one clan supposedly did that like who got time offsetting the map who got time rigging to get a tank !!

SGarv #16 Posted May 18 2017 - 19:14

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View PostRedwave11, on May 18 2017 - 05:11, said:

I can assure you this was not what we were trying to do when we faced you. We had a clan battle that was starting at the same time as the advance and only had ~20 players to fill both battles. So we grabbed 5 legionnaires (admittedly not the best players) then swapped them out when our battle on the global map finished.

 

That being said, i thought the advances were calculated by clan elo not PR.

 

If it is by PR then i think it should be fixed. But conversely if it was calculated by clan mean PR then you could have low skill clans bring 5 unicum legionaires to 'rig' the matchmaker.

 

Most of that team was switched out, not just a couple legionnaires. Its good of you to agree that Advances should be matched by Clan data though. Oh, and Cent72, Go Blue dude!

Redwave11 #17 Posted May 20 2017 - 00:04

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View PostSGarv, on May 19 2017 - 04:14, said:

 

Most of that team was switched out, not just a couple legionnaires. Its good of you to agree that Advances should be matched by Clan data though. Oh, and Cent72, Go Blue dude!

 

5 legionnaires and only 1 clan member was switched.

It makes sense mathematically base on your estimated PR change.

 

Avg Clan Pr: 6700

Avg Legionnaire PR: 3300

No.Clan in team A: 10      No. Legionaries in Team A: 5

No. Clan in Team B: 15    No. Legionaries in Team B: 0

 

So, avg PR of team A = (10*6700+5*3300)/15 = 5566

      avg PR of Team B = 6700

     change in PR = 1134 which is within your estimations of 500-2000


Edited by Redwave11, May 20 2017 - 00:18.


Wirbelfeld #18 Posted May 20 2017 - 04:56

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View PostSGarv, on May 18 2017 - 18:14, said:

 

Most of that team was switched out, not just a couple legionnaires. Its good of you to agree that Advances should be matched by Clan data though. Oh, and Cent72, Go Blue dude!

 

Im 80% sure that it is matched by clan ELO or some other clan metric because when I first played with OTTER, they were getting matched up against some pretty bad clans.

Edited by Wirbelfeld, May 20 2017 - 04:57.


Skeenaman #19 Posted May 29 2017 - 00:42

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I think you are right Wirbelfield that they are using the ELO rating to match.  We were matched with a clan 2 points away from our advances-ELO last night.  I will watch and see what happens going forward.

 

 






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