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Why did they nerf the VK 28.01?


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ATankFullOfIdiots #1 Posted May 18 2017 - 06:53

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As most of you know by now they removed the 10.5cm from this tank. Being a T6 light tank it can, and regularly sees tier 8 game play. The 75 mm is entirely out of its league in any matches over T6 both in penetration and damage. So why did they remove it when another T6 medium and heavy can still equip it and the American T9 and T10 lights still have their overly huge derps?  Frankly they put a large dent in this tanks performance  and fun. Removing the 10.5 also affects the light missions. The final mission is to get a certain amount of damage to vehicles you track, which simply can not be done without a derpy HE gun.

 

I cant help feeling that this is yet another mistake made for absolutely NO reason.



Fluffy_Kittens #2 Posted May 18 2017 - 07:27

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View PostATankFullOfIdiots, on May 18 2017 - 05:53, said:

which simply can not be done without a derpy HE gun.

 

well

with that stateement right there, i can tell your probably a bad player.

i'm going to look up your stats right now



Fluffy_Kittens #3 Posted May 18 2017 - 07:28

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360 damage per game in your old vk, (which used to see high tiers)

nuff said....



Meows_Nyanpasu #4 Posted May 18 2017 - 07:35

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View PostFluffy_Kittens, on May 17 2017 - 22:28, said:

360 damage per game in your old vk, (which used to see high tiers)

nuff said....

 

wow you really make a good, compelling argument.

SuperTankDriver #5 Posted May 18 2017 - 08:19

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View PostFluffy_Kittens, on May 18 2017 - 06:28, said:

360 damage per game in your old vk, (which used to see high tiers)

nuff said....

 

That doesn't justify removing the 105mm. 

WG didn't just look up this guy's stats and went "Hmm, these stats are terrible. I think we should remove the only fun gun on the tank that makes it unique, maybe the stats will go up".



Swingman #6 Posted May 18 2017 - 12:17

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Nerfing has been part of WG's strategy since the game came out.  New tank, or new tank line = Oh Boy, I HAVE to get that awesome tank!!  Later WG nerf's it, and there goes your "awesome" tank. Not to worry, WG always comes out with new tanks to grind toward or spend real money on.  If no new tank line is in the near future, they nerf tanks to try to force players to abandon their old "favorite" and grind and/or spend money, again, to get that newly buffed tank.

 

It's the same old tricks to keep you spending your time and getting your money.

 

WG, this is not an attack on your company, you are in this to make money like any other company, so, please do not delete this post.



PUNISHER989 #7 Posted May 18 2017 - 12:31

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Yea taking the 105mm from the Vk28 which is what made the tank, It was it's special quality. 

Its unique module to part is from the rest. 

now all the lights up till tier10 are all the same, nothing unique to them at all. just the Nation and color. 



RunninKurt #8 Posted May 18 2017 - 14:51

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Same reason why the ELC's 90mm was nerfed. Being a tier 6 with standard MM it would have been OP. It had 2700 dpm with the 105.

I DO agree that they OVER nerfed it. I think it needed to be done similar to arty, it can keep the 105, but can only fire standard HE from it, or something.



__Traxxas__ #9 Posted May 18 2017 - 15:29

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View PostPIayer30, on May 18 2017 - 07:35, said:

 

wow you really make a good, compelling argument.

 

Wow, for once I actually agree with something you said. Or rather the intent of what you said. But I have to ask, is this TEMPL guy going to go on the 'never recruit' list for "making bad arguments" :^)

View PostRunninKurt, on May 18 2017 - 14:51, said:

Same reason why the ELC's 90mm was nerfed. Being a tier 6 with standard MM it would have been OP. It had 2700 dpm with the 105.

I DO agree that they OVER nerfed it. I think it needed to be done similar to arty, it can keep the 105, but can only fire standard HE from it, or something.

 

2700 DPM doesn't mean crapif you're shooting HE that doesn't hardly ever pen you munge. Try halving or even 1/3ing that damage and you'd get a more appropriate DPM depending on what you're shooting at.


Edited by __Traxxas__, May 18 2017 - 15:31.


NK_33 #10 Posted May 18 2017 - 15:30

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They wanted to make all the lights  generic so the poor CoD twitchers don't get confused when playing tanks.  I fully expect the 152mm on the US line and the 30mm autocannon from the German lights.



Meows_Nyanpasu #11 Posted May 18 2017 - 15:58

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View Post__Traxxas__, on May 18 2017 - 06:29, said:

 

Wow, for once I actually agree with something you said. Or rather the intent of what you said. But I have to ask, is this TEMPL guy going to go on the 'never recruit' list for "making bad arguments" :^)

I'm a fake Player30. The real player 30 wouldn't have 3 marks on tanks. :^)



__Traxxas__ #12 Posted May 18 2017 - 17:17

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View PostPIayer30, on May 18 2017 - 15:58, said:

I'm a fake Player30. The real player 30 wouldn't have 3 marks on tanks. :^)

 

Oh, now I see it. The L is actually an uppercase 'i'. Top kek :^) I was worried for a moment I'd been tking the wrong player30 this whole time.

RunninKurt #13 Posted May 18 2017 - 18:54

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View Post__Traxxas__, on May 18 2017 - 08:29, said:

 

Wow, for once I actually agree with something you said. Or rather the intent of what you said. But I have to ask, is this TEMPL guy going to go on the 'never recruit' list for "making bad arguments" :^)

2700 DPM doesn't mean crapif you're shooting HE that doesn't hardly ever pen you munge. Try halving or even 1/3ing that damage and you'd get a more appropriate DPM depending on what you're shooting at.

 

Oh look, another baddie that hasnt played the tank in question giving his opinion.

 

2700 dpm can be achieved with premium shells, or a combination of mobility and camouflage resulting in flanking shots. The tank would be OP as top tier as it was.



QuicksilverJPR #14 Posted May 18 2017 - 19:06

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View PostRunninKurt, on May 18 2017 - 08:51, said:

Same reason why the ELC's 90mm was nerfed. Being a tier 6 with standard MM it would have been OP. It had 2700 dpm with the 105.

I DO agree that they OVER nerfed it. I think it needed to be done similar to arty, it can keep the 105, but can only fire standard HE from it, or something.

 

Except there are tier 5 mediums that can mount that gun, and it's perfectly fine in those scenarios.

 

Don't try to make rhyme or reason on why they removed what could have been a very unique gun on that tank.  It's actually worthless without the 105 now, as that was the only real reason to play that tank in the first place.



RunninKurt #15 Posted May 18 2017 - 20:36

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View PostQuicksilverJPR, on May 18 2017 - 12:06, said:

 

Except there are tier 5 mediums that can mount that gun, and it's perfectly fine in those scenarios.

 

Don't try to make rhyme or reason on why they removed what could have been a very unique gun on that tank.  It's actually worthless without the 105 now, as that was the only real reason to play that tank in the first place.

 

Oh, I forgot the VK2801 has the mobility and camouflage of a tier 5 medium. Excellent logic.

Tazilon #16 Posted May 18 2017 - 22:23

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The better question is - why is the 105 considered OP for a T6 Scout when it is also used on a T5 Medium?

 

The vast majority of battles it faces are the same tiers as what it saw before and the majority of the tanks it faces are tanks it saw before who got no nerfs at all.

 

Huge mistake by Wargaming to make all the Tier VI scouts the same (except for the 12t).  Pre-9.18, they were the most diverse group of tanks in the game.  No more.


Edited by Tazilon, May 18 2017 - 22:26.


Aknazer #17 Posted May 19 2017 - 05:39

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View PostRunninKurt, on May 18 2017 - 20:36, said:

 

Oh, I forgot the VK2801 has the mobility and camouflage of a tier 5 medium. Excellent logic.

 

And the T5s can hit 3900-4100+ DPM a whole tier lower.  The LT has the WOST camo of the three while stationary and is only ~3% better than the med and ~1% better than the TD while moving.  If we really wanted to go for lulz we could throw in the T4 Hetzer which ALSO uses the same gun but at TIER FREAKING FOUR and STILL has 2900 DPM!

 

Sorry but your logic is crap.  The VK is less likely to pen because of the amount of armor T6-8 tanks have even when flanking them.  Then there's its size which both makes it easier to hit AND have the second worst camo of the T6 LTs (only the T37 is worse and not by much).  It's only middle-of-the-pack for hp/t but it still feels worse than tanks it's supposedly better than like the Type 64, likely due to ground resistance values which I'm not bothering to look up since they can't be seen via in-game compare.  It's turning only beats the 12t, and the French tanks are notorious for horrid turning (it's one of the reasons I dislike the 1390 and 25t).

 

In short the VK is a meh tank with the derp being what made it unique.  The derp was in no way OP on the tank given all of its weaknesses and the fact that the pen is only 53 (something that can fail to pen even other LTs).  It's removal makes ZERO sense given that T4 and 5 tanks get the exact same gun but feel free to keep thinking the tank would have magically of been OP with it.  Even if having a theoretical DPM of a T4-5 tank while having to deal with effectively less pen (due to enemy armor increasing but your pen staying the same) they could have reduced its ROF to balance it instead of just removing it completely.



ATankFullOfIdiots #18 Posted May 19 2017 - 06:29

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View PostFluffy_Kittens, on May 18 2017 - 06:28, said:

360 damage per game in your old vk, (which used to see high tiers)

nuff said....

 

You have to be alive to do damage. A t6 light tank in t8 games doesnt do enough damage to the higher tier mediums and heavies in its short lifespan. Any light that isnt out front spotting for their team is not doing their job. Sounds like YOU are the one who is short on skill or knowledge about how a tank is to be played.



ATankFullOfIdiots #19 Posted May 19 2017 - 06:33

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View PostTazilon, on May 18 2017 - 21:23, said:

The better question is - why is the 105 considered OP for a T6 Scout when it is also used on a T5 Medium?

 

The vast majority of battles it faces are the same tiers as what it saw before and the majority of the tanks it faces are tanks it saw before who got no nerfs at all.

 

Huge mistake by Wargaming to make all the Tier VI scouts the same (except for the 12t).  Pre-9.18, they were the most diverse group of tanks in the game.  No more.

 

It's also THE gun to use on the T5 Hetzer and one of the T4 sweedish Sav m/43. NOBODY uses this gun with AP rounds.

RunninKurt #20 Posted May 19 2017 - 13:44

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View PostAknazer, on May 18 2017 - 22:39, said:

 

And the T5s can hit 3900-4100+ DPM a whole tier lower.  The LT has the WOST camo of the three while stationary and is only ~3% better than the med and ~1% better than the TD while moving.  If we really wanted to go for lulz we could throw in the T4 Hetzer which ALSO uses the same gun but at TIER FREAKING FOUR and STILL has 2900 DPM!

 

Sorry but your logic is crap.  The VK is less likely to pen because of the amount of armor T6-8 tanks have even when flanking them.  Then there's its size which both makes it easier to hit AND have the second worst camo of the T6 LTs (only the T37 is worse and not by much).  It's only middle-of-the-pack for hp/t but it still feels worse than tanks it's supposedly better than like the Type 64, likely due to ground resistance values which I'm not bothering to look up since they can't be seen via in-game compare.  It's turning only beats the 12t, and the French tanks are notorious for horrid turning (it's one of the reasons I dislike the 1390 and 25t).

 

In short the VK is a meh tank with the derp being what made it unique.  The derp was in no way OP on the tank given all of its weaknesses and the fact that the pen is only 53 (something that can fail to pen even other LTs).  It's removal makes ZERO sense given that T4 and 5 tanks get the exact same gun but feel free to keep thinking the tank would have magically of been OP with it.  Even if having a theoretical DPM of a T4-5 tank while having to deal with effectively less pen (due to enemy armor increasing but your pen staying the same) they could have reduced its ROF to balance it instead of just removing it completely.

 

In what twisted alternate universe can you find a tier 5 that does anything CLOSE to 3k DPM???

 

Again, you go off comparing stats of the VK to other tier 6 lights. My logic explained why the 105 is OP on a Light Tank at tier 6, and NOT on a medium tank at tier 5.

 

The tier 5 with the highest DPM is the Pz4H with the 105. It's at 2625. Every stat on the gun is worse than the VK2801 had with it's 105. (Again, comparing gun only, factor in the chassis and the Pz4 is even worse)

 

So if you'd like to have a logical conversation using LEGIT and ACTUAL numbers, let's go. Until then, 95% of your post is garbage whining. 


Edited by RunninKurt, May 19 2017 - 13:47.





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