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Spg arty Now when we get found we ha.

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Billy_H #1 Posted May 18 2017 - 18:26

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I just wanted to post some of my thoughts about the SPG changes. 

 

1. I don't platoon so the ban on SPG's platooning doesn't effect me, but if you want to promote teamwork then why would you exclude part of the team from platooning? Makes no sense to me at all. 

 

2. It seems to me that the accuracy of SPG's has went down. I only play up to t6 right now, but I seem to be getting a lot more misses, crits with no damage and stuns with no damage. 

2a. Quick question: does arty now get exp. for stun with no damage?

 

3  I understand the reduction in damage that SPG's do, as people complained about getting one shotted by arty, but that really leaves us defenseless when we get spotted. As an example I was in a t3 spg, German I think, and was located by a tetrarch. I was loaded and shot him point blank, within 10 meters and I have markers so I know I hit him, and he survived. He just sat there not moving and shot me twice. I have have the spg outfitted so I was able to load and hit him a second time. He still had over half his hp left after that. He killed me with his next shot. We have absolutely no way to defend ourselves anymore. 

 

4. I know how frustrating it is to get killed by a single shot from someone you can't even see. It happens to me all the time. But for me it has rarely been by arty, but rather by TD's and other tanks exploiting their camouflage and view range mechanics. Why hasn't anything been done about that? I see absolutely no difference in the two situations. I'm just as dead if I was killed by an invisible TD or tank as I would have been if shot by a spg. If I do survive that shot I still can't return fire because I have no idea where they are, so how is that different than getting shot by a Spg?

 

thank you for reading. 

 


Edited by Billy_H, May 18 2017 - 18:28.


V_A_C_A #2 Posted May 18 2017 - 18:53

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View PostBilly_H, on May 18 2017 - 14:26, said:

1. I don't platoon so the ban on SPG's platooning doesn't effect me, but if you want to promote teamwork then why would you exclude part of the team from platooning? Makes no sense to me at all. 

 

2. It seems to me that the accuracy of SPG's has went down. I only play up to t6 right now, but I seem to be getting a lot more misses, crits with no damage and stuns with no damage. 

2a. Quick question: does arty now get exp. for stun with no damage?

 

3  I understand the reduction in damage that SPG's do, as people complained about getting one shotted by arty, but that really leaves us defenseless when we get spotted. As an example I was in a t3 spg, German I think, and was located by a tetrarch. I was loaded and shot him point blank, within 10 meters and I have markers so I know I hit him, and he survived. He just sat there not moving and shot me twice. I have have the spg outfitted so I was able to load and hit him a second time. He still had over half his hp left after that. He killed me with his next shot. We have absolutely no way to defend ourselves anymore. 

 

4. I know how frustrating it is to get killed by a single shot from someone you can't even see. It happens to me all the time. But for me it has rarely been by arty, but rather by TD's and other tanks exploiting their camouflage and view range mechanics. Why hasn't anything been done about that? I see absolutely no difference in the two situations. I'm just as dead if I was killed by an invisible TD or tank as I would have been if shot by a spg. If I do survive that shot I still can't return fire because I have no idea where they are, so how is that different than getting shot by a Spg?

 

thank you for reading. 

 


1) Completely agree.
2) Depends on how well your crew is trained, and your SPG fitted. I loved my Grille before the Patch (>3k battles on it), but now it's wasted :(. But other arties got buffed (Hummel, M41 HMC, M44, AMX 13 F3, ...).
2a) My WN8 is falling quickly, because stun (with no damage) means... nothing, for the WN8 calc. It's like a miss. No problems. But the arty shell cost got buffed, too.

3) According to lots of xenophobous players, we (arty players) aren't meant to be on the game. Lots of those players are cash players, and WG needs money, as a business. So...

4) As arties get nerfed, guess who's the next target? Yes. TD's beware of the cash tomato whiners! (Now I'm stuck with a "tomato with money" image on my brain :ohmy:)




ArmorStorm #3 Posted May 18 2017 - 18:55

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It is different because you have the opportunity to counter them.  You can have a good crew, fully-researched tank with good equipment and have some idea where TDs go on the map.  You can survive a hit and return fire.  With artillery, they can be behind solid cover far from your position where you cannot respond to their fire.

 

That is the difference.



ArmorStorm #4 Posted May 18 2017 - 18:57

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View PostV_A_C_A, on May 18 2017 - 11:53, said:


1) Completely agree.
2) Depends on how well your crew is trained, and your SPG fitted. I loved my Grille before the Patch (>3k battles on it), but now it's wasted :(. But other arties got buffed (Hummel, M41 HMC, M44, AMX 13 F3, ...).
2a) My WN8 is falling quickly, because stun (with no damage) means... nothing, for the WN8 calc. It's like a miss. No problems. But the arty shell cost got buffed, too.

3) According to lots of xenophobous players, we (arty players) aren't meant to be on the game. Lots of those players are cash players, and WG needs money, as a business. So...

4) As arties get nerfed, guess who's the next target? Yes. TD's beware of the cash tomato whiners! (Now I'm stuck with a "tomato with money" image on my brain :ohmy:)


 

TDs already got their spanking, or don't you remember?  TDs used to retain their camo rating after firing, a unique class feature like the scouts retaining their camo on the move.  TDs also got nerfs to view range so they would need to depend on other vehicles for spotting I believe.

V_A_C_A #5 Posted May 18 2017 - 19:24

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View PostArmorStorm, on May 18 2017 - 14:57, said:

 

TDs already got their spanking, or don't you remember?  TDs used to retain their camo rating after firing, a unique class feature like the scouts retaining their camo on the move.  TDs also got nerfs to view range so they would need to depend on other vehicles for spotting I believe.

 

Believe me... After this arty nerf, TD's will be the focus of the cry-babies.

Llorunis #6 Posted May 18 2017 - 19:30

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Arty got there spanking back in 2014, arty used to get matchmaking like light tanks, and used to do 10 times more damage. Just because TD's got 1 little vision nerf does not mean it compares in any way to the complete game changing arty has undergone. Yes arty has had the ability to completly change someones game, and it happened more often then the ammo rack does with non spg.

 

The issue is people do not want to end there game 1 minute into the game because an arty they cannot shoot back at was able to hit them with an amazing shot. In actual war practice (WW2) a artillery platoon would rain down round after round on an area, with little to no accuracy. Shelling them into oblivion, sometimes even there own allied forces. For pinpoint accuracy you would call in a airstrike.

 

Now let us drop the above crap and focus on the game we are playing, and the issue of the poster. He has had a opportunity like the rest of us to play a game for a while now with a certain mechanic allowing him a certain measure of defense. If a tank came into the open, head to head, his spg could deal enough dmg as to potentially save his life, now this spg, that should get more accurate with range, firing a huge round! is completely incapable of dismantling a tank. 

 

Yes this is a problem. Not being able to platoon with people in a "massively multiplayer game" is a problem! These are all valid concerns. 

The problem is that so many people have a opinion, and ZERO empathy! They just don't care about arty. Keep voicing your thoughts and do not let the trolls rain on you.


Edited by Llorunis, May 18 2017 - 19:31.


Fireplace4 #7 Posted May 18 2017 - 19:39

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1) I can see both sides of the story, it does seem unfair to stop a portion of the community from doing something that everyone else can. On the other hand though, I get focused down by arty enough and with the reload buffs I would hate to have arty keeping me permastunned through being able to talk to each other.

 

2) Accuracy did not go down, it must just be a bit of observation bias (you know they changed arty so you THINK that they are hitting more infrequently), or perhaps just bad rng (or a combination of both). You can see the accuracy statistics in the garage, and they have gotten better for every(?) spg (At least for most, I don't know of any that didn't get an accuracy buff).

 

3) You are not supposed to be able to deal with threats that get close to you. It's the same with a lot of td's, if an enemy gets in close then you are expected to lose the engagement. It's the way the class is balanced.

 

4) Although annoying, a td or something hiding in a bush and shooting you without popping IS different from an arty. This is for a number of reasons: they are using direct fire, they had to use skill to use the position, and you can return fire.  

 

a) He has to have a direct line of sight to shoot you, while the arty does not. The arty can also hit you from well beyond the render range.  

b)The tank or td using the bush to stay hidden is using a game mechanic that all tanks and td's can use in order to outplay you when he shoots you like that. You can do the same thing to him.

c) You can return fire in the direction that you were hit from the tank or td, and if you are quick enough and good enough there is a good chance you might hit them blindly. You cannot do the same for arty because he could be firing over buildings or well beyond render distance.



V_A_C_A #8 Posted May 18 2017 - 19:44

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View PostLlorunis, on May 18 2017 - 15:30, said:

 In actual war practice (WW2) a artillery platoon would rain down round after round on an area, with little to no accuracy. Shelling them into oblivion, sometimes even there own allied forces. For pinpoint accuracy you would call in a airstrike.


Part 1: https://imgur.com/IBUlNs6
Part 2: https://imgur.com/tIYtgLI
Part 3: https://imgur.com/EIM9Ccl

 



ClydeCooper421 #9 Posted May 18 2017 - 19:56

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View PostBilly_H, on May 18 2017 - 09:26, said:

I just wanted to post some of my thoughts about the SPG changes. 

 

1. I don't platoon so the ban on SPG's platooning doesn't effect me, but if you want to promote teamwork then why would you exclude part of the team from platooning? Makes no sense to me at all. Fair enough. I think SPG's should be limited to 1 per platoon. WG was trying to reduce the frustration of being focused by 3 leFH's. 

 

2. It seems to me that the accuracy of SPG's has went down. I only play up to t6 right now, but I seem to be getting a lot more misses, crits with no damage and stuns with no damage. 

2a. Quick question: does arty now get exp. for stun with no damage? No, all soft stats were buffed for SPG's in 9.18. Aim time, accuracy, dispersion, and reload were all buffed. Damage and penetration was changed, and the stun effect was added. before the update, I would fire around maybe 10 shots average in a battle in my Lorraine 155 50 (T7 french). Around 5 would hit. Now I can fire around 10-15 shots and I miss only 1-2 times doing no splash, crits, or stun. 

 

I do not now if you get exp for stunning without damage, but I do know if a teammate damages the tank you stunned while they're stunned you get a type of "assisted damage"

 

3  I understand the reduction in damage that SPG's do, as people complained about getting one shotted by arty, but that really leaves us defenseless when we get spotted. As an example I was in a t3 spg, German I think, and was located by a tetrarch. I was loaded and shot him point blank, within 10 meters and I have markers so I know I hit him, and he survived. He just sat there not moving and shot me twice. I have have the spg outfitted so I was able to load and hit him a second time. He still had over half his hp left after that. He killed me with his next shot. We have absolutely no way to defend ourselves anymore. You should have been behind your team and had your teammates back you up and cover you. If your team has holes in it's defense line, and a light tank is able to get through, it deserves to destroy the artillery and has "earned" it. If you saw that there was a hole in the defense line you should have moved. All arty pieces in the game have tracks, use 'em.

 

4. I know how frustrating it is to get killed by a single shot from someone you can't even see. It happens to me all the time. But for me it has rarely been by arty, but rather by TD's and other tanks exploiting their camouflage and view range mechanics.Yes, they outplay you using their knowledge of camo and view range mechanics...how is that unfair? Why hasn't anything been done about that? I see absolutely no difference in the two situations.The difference is the fact that the TD had a direct line of sight and fire. Artillery can hit tanks from across the map, over, and through cover. And even if they miss they still track you and stun you for 15-20 seconds.  I'm just as dead if I was killed by an invisible TD or tank as I would have been if shot by a spg. If I do survive that shot I still can't return fire because I have no idea where they are, so how is that different than getting shot by a Spg? Because you can pull back into cover. There are very places that are actually arty safe on maps. The fact that arty can still shoot the other side of hard cover and still splash/stun you is ridiculous. 

 

thank you for reading. 

NP, glad to hear your opinion. 

Responses in blue ^ 


Edited by ClydeCooper421, May 18 2017 - 19:57.


Llorunis #10 Posted May 18 2017 - 20:25

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KIND of the point, he is not in a platoon, and in a random, a pub player is less likely to (as you put it) "have his back". All these opinions. 

 

You say You should be, behind your team. If his team is dead he used to be able to have a chance on his own. He was not asking your opinion.

 

You tell him you do not think he should be able to platoon. If Wargaming wanted to balance a LEFh they are smart enough to do it without punishing the entire player base of artillery. It is almost like your not even trying to see this guys point.

 

According to   ClydeCooper421 all you have to do is get everyone on your team to do whatever the heck you tell them. If you cannot control your team, or they are not smart enough to play for themselves, the other player has  "earned" the right to abuse you. So just get used to it. Clydecooper421 has what he wants, why should he care what you want. Learn to deal.


Edited by Llorunis, May 18 2017 - 20:36.


slopoke59 #11 Posted May 18 2017 - 20:38

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I started playing this game 6 years ago. Arty was in the game then.

In those days, I didn't mind arty and thought arty added an interesting support element to the game. If you sat in the open, arty would hit you. This was usually small damage (no one-shot nukes) and getting tracked. Getting tracked was the part I didn't like especially with no repair.


 

To make it short, things stayed like this for some years. Then some changes began. Arty got huge and could one-shot any tank on the field. Even the tier 10 you just spent a year grinding would be ruined for the game or killed outright. So, comes 'play arty safe'. Well arty safe meant hide behind a mountain and stay there. Yes, there's more to it than that but, I don't wanna write a book :) Basically, hiding behind a mountain or coming out to die was not fun. So, I quit grinding higher tiers. I quit spending money. And I (along with thousands of other players) informed WG. 8 months ago, I quit the game entirely because of arty and the salt of the community.


 

Been playing WOWs since. Having fun again. I think WOT should put a mode like PvE like WOWs has.


 

So, I come back to WOT to stare at my garage and to my surprise, 9.18!  I decided not to knee-jerk and give it a while. While there are some things I could pick at, overall I like what they've done and started playing again. I got my artys out and they are far less boring to play now. I think with time WG will iron issues that come up, but I think it was a move in the right direction.


 

Oh, I know this is just a pure arcade game that only looks realistic but, wouldn't you expect to be defenseless when an E-100 rolls around the corner and one-shots your 10mm side armor?



ClydeCooper421 #12 Posted May 18 2017 - 21:01

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View PostLlorunis, on May 18 2017 - 11:25, said:

KIND of the point, he is not in a platoon, and in a random, a pub player is less likely to (as you put it) "have his back". All these opinions. 

 

You say You should be, behind your team. If his team is dead he used to be able to have a chance on his own. He was not asking your opinion.

 

You tell him you do not think he should be able to platoon. If Wargaming wanted to balance a LEFh they are smart enough to do it without punishing the entire player base of artillery. It is almost like your not even trying to see this guys point.

 

According to   ClydeCooper421 all you have to do is get everyone on your team to do whatever the heck you tell them. If you cannot control your team, or they are not smart enough to play for themselves, the other player has  "earned" the right to abuse you. So just get used to it. Clydecooper421 has what he wants, why should he care what you want. Learn to deal.

 

A good wot player plays to his team. If his team is lemmingtraining one side, then he pushes with them. 

 

Also, I said I think arty can platoon, just 1 of them at a time. 3 arty in a platoon focusing the same person was brutal. 

 

Once the whole team is dead, arty shouldn't be able to go 1 v 5 and win. Arty is a support class and should never win 1 v 1's. 



jo5419 #13 Posted May 18 2017 - 21:46

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View PostClydeCooper421, on May 18 2017 - 20:01, said:

 

A good wot player plays to his team. If his team is lemmingtraining one side, then he pushes with them. 

 

Also, I said I think arty can platoon, just 1 of them at a time. 3 arty in a platoon focusing the same person was brutal. 

 

Once the whole team is dead, arty shouldn't be able to go 1 v 5 and win. Arty is a support class and should never win 1 v 1's. 

what should never win 1v1s why your team die and you are the only left and you whit magic you cant shoot? 

 

arty never was capable of wining a 1v5 or a 1v2  but at least it could defend himself now they take away that too



DelugePri #14 Posted May 18 2017 - 22:09

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View PostClydeCooper421, on May 18 2017 - 21:01, said:

Once the whole team is dead, arty shouldn't be able to go 1 v 5 and win. Arty is a support class and should never win 1 v 1's. 

 

Okay see, but any other tank can win a 1v1 engagement if played smart. Arty should not be a useless duck that noone cares about if its team is dead.

In the past, arty SHOULD have lost every 1v1 engagement, but if played smart you could have a slim chance of winning regardless. This meant other tanks can't just yolo into them without any thought.

 

Now if its 1v1 with arty, even the lightest of light tanks can just yolo in, take a direct hit, and continue on like nothing happened. Arty still has the biggest gun in the game, you should be avoiding getting hit by that thing at all costs.

 

 

 


Edited by fwufs, May 18 2017 - 22:20.


cavalry11 #15 Posted May 18 2017 - 22:16

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no good reason to not be able to platoon other than cry babies. the camo thing is B.S. no tank should be able to run across an open field and not be spotted. you fire you should light up lets get the game back to more realism pleas.

UnDeadDemon956 #16 Posted May 19 2017 - 00:37

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I hope arty gets nerfed so hard you have to sell it and when you do you get 1 whole credit for your efforts.

ClydeCooper421 #17 Posted May 19 2017 - 00:40

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View Postfwufs, on May 18 2017 - 13:09, said:

 

Okay see, but any other tank can win a 1v1 engagement if played smart. Arty should not be a useless duck that noone cares about if its team is dead.

In the past, arty SHOULD have lost every 1v1 engagement, but if played smart you could have a slim chance of winning regardless. This meant other tanks can't just yolo into them without any thought

Why should arty be like this when other tanks, when facing arty, can't retaliate? 



DelugePri #18 Posted May 19 2017 - 01:12

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View PostClydeCooper421, on May 19 2017 - 00:40, said:

Why should arty be like this when other tanks, when facing arty, can't retaliate? 

 

because if normal tanks play smart they can minimize the effect of arty, and on some maps negate it entirely. 

 

Its not really asking much for the tank with the biggest gun, to be able to have the off chance at being able to defend itself by blowing something up 3 feet in front of it. there's absolutely no reason a light tank should be able to tank a point blank artillery shell. 

 


UnDeadDemon956 #19 Posted May 19 2017 - 01:19

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View Postfwufs, on May 18 2017 - 19:12, said:

 

because if normal tanks play smart they can minimize the effect of arty, and on some maps negate it entirely. 

 

Its not really asking much for the tank with the biggest gun, to be able to have the off chance at being able to defend itself by blowing something up 3 feet in front of it. there's absolutely no reason a light tank should be able to tank a point blank artillery shell. 

 

What the hell are you on about, my light tanks still get oneshot by arty whenever they directly hit me. It's happened a bunch after the arty buff since they're more accurate now and hit me on the move full speed more often.

DelugePri #20 Posted May 19 2017 - 01:55

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View PostUnDeadDemon956, on May 19 2017 - 01:19, said:

 

What the hell are you on about, my light tanks still get oneshot by arty whenever they directly hit me. It's happened a bunch after the arty buff since they're more accurate now and hit me on the move full speed more often.

 

On my russian SPGs I've only 1 shot people 3 times since the patch, and that was due to engine fires they didn't put out. And I've direct hit lights and mediums multiple times almost every game.

So I don't know what magical paper tank you're using that it always get 1 shot but I haven't had the pleasure of being matched against it.

 

Though I do play at higher tiers with my SPGs so maybe things are different at the t5 and below range, but even then my M44 is just as inaccurate (see can't hit the broadside of a barn) as ever.

I don't know where this laser spg guided missile myth has been coming from because the accuracy buff wasn't all that much. I think you're just noticing it more now because SPG players are targeting lighter tanks since we can't damage heavier tanks. 






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