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Poll: proposition (13 members have cast votes)

Do you like this proposal?

  1. Yes, i like this proposal (1 vote [7.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.69%

  2. No, i don't like this proposal (7 votes [53.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 53.85%

  3. Other (5 votes [38.46%])

    Percentage of vote: 38.46%

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hgghy #1 Posted May 19 2017 - 18:26

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As someone who plays both with and against arty, i can honestly say that it is miserable both for the arty player and for the people being shot at.

Therefore, i propose the following changes to arty.

 

Reinstate arty platoons

Increase alpha by 50%

Increase splash by 50%

Decrease stun by 100%

 

Keep the rest the same way it is now.

 

Please tell me what you think about these proposed changes.



PREDY4 #2 Posted May 19 2017 - 18:40

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There was a poll very similar to this one just a couple of hours ago that had a choice of "Only allow less than one arty per battle".

 

I still choose that one.



panzerkampfwagen9991 #3 Posted May 19 2017 - 18:40

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I can't tell if you're trolling or not. This would make arty alpha the way it was before except better accuracy, aim time, and reload, and massively better splash. However, I will say that I think arty stun is too long for its reload. Certain arty like the bat chat 155 55, object 261 can keep enemies permanently stunned and prevent players from having an impact in the game.

Errants #4 Posted May 19 2017 - 18:46

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The only thing that should be reverted is the lack of platoons for arty.  Allow 1/platoon, similar to the 1 CV (Aircraft Carrier)/division rule in WoWS.

Dracheherr #5 Posted May 19 2017 - 18:54

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One arty per platoon, max of 3 arty per team (further restrict arty to one per Tier grouping, i.e., one top Tier, one mid Tier, one bottom Tier)

Alpha - no change

Splash - no change

Stun - no change 



GAJohnnie #6 Posted May 19 2017 - 18:58

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Remove arty from the game. It has no useful function in a game WG bills as a "realistic immersive historically accurate" tank game. WG did not put in infantry, mines, fortification, at guns, tactical air craft or a host of historically accurate things. The no good reason for WG to keep the a-historical, absurd broken mechanic called arty. with it two ridiculous built in game mods in this Tank game.

Fireplace4 #7 Posted May 19 2017 - 19:00

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Do you realize if you increase damage and splash of arty then the damage will be higher for many arty than it was pre-rebalance, and the splash will be 2 to maybe even  3 times as big as it was pre-rebalance, with the increased soft stats of the rebalance right? that would make arty ridiculously over-powered and broken 

Llorunis #8 Posted May 19 2017 - 19:08

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I have to sort through so much crap that is self-serving (anti-arty mentality) to find the initial thread. It is like the same trolls walk around saying "no" to arty. Or bring up the same argument about how it takes away from YOUR game without so much as a thought to the game of others. Your mentality is the reason we lost 2 way chat. Your opinion is forced onto others. Let the people you disagree with (arty players) talk about there arty, without making it all about you not wanting to get shot by arty. No one cares that you don't want arty to shoot you!

 

1 LEFh per platoon only (all other platoons are normal)


Edited by Llorunis, May 19 2017 - 19:10.


hgghy #9 Posted May 19 2017 - 19:21

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ok, i just ran the numbers, and y'all are right. 50% increases to dmg & splash is way too much.

 

how about 20%?

here are the numbers for a 20% increase to tier 9 arty's dmg:

 

B-C 155 55: 750 to 900.

M53/M55: 1050 to 1260 (i guess we'll round it to 1250)

GW Tiger: 1100 to 1320 (round it to 1325)

212A: 1050 to 1260 (round it to 1250)

FV3805: 900 to 1080 (round it to 1100)

 


Edited by hgghy, May 19 2017 - 19:22.


Fireplace4 #10 Posted May 19 2017 - 20:32

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I honestly don't think arty needs a buff at this point. I see them doing a decent amount of damage each game. However, I will reverse my stance if anyone can show me that arty is doing less damage AND less damage upon stunning than before. If I were trying to do this I would weight it something like: Before re-balance- damage weighted at 75%, tracking and assistance at 25%. After re-balance- damage weighted at 60%, tracking and assistance at 20%, assistance due to stunning at 20%. If someone plugged in the data into a model like that and ran a p-test and found significance that arty is doing worse now than before then I would agree that arty may need a buff. However, as it stands I think arty is doing alright. It just takes a slightly different approach to accomplishing its objective. Instead of trying to outright annihilate the target, it now tries to do some damage, track and stun the enemy, allowing for allies to do the real damage. 

dunniteowl #11 Posted May 19 2017 - 20:53

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So far, it hasn't really been an issue for me.  I don't like the lesser damage of the HE only firing, then again, I never used Premium on SPGs, just felt dirty about it.  That said, I think buffing the damage an HE shell can do and maybe buffing it's penetration for under 100m isn't awful as an idea.  If they changed the alpha of the rounds, I would think increasing it by 30% would be in order.  They were reduced by Half, which means this increase would still place them at about 2/3 to 3/5 original values.  Let me see, real quick.

 

 

Let's say you had a shell that had an alpha Pre-9.18 of 300.  Now it has 150.  If you were to increase that by 30% of now, you'd have 195 Alpha instead of the original 300.

 

If you did that and maybe removed the stun effect or considered reducing it by 50%, I'd be okay with that.  I'd honestly be okay if stun didn't exist.  The changes to accuracy and reload do not more than compensate for the other nerfs, not by any stretch, however, I have come to believe that many of the higher tier arty is the real issue.

 

 

Maybe what WG should have done was tie LTs to SPGs in tier levels.  Thus, until recently with 9.18 and tier 10 LTs, there should have been none until the change and no Spgs that were above tier of the LTs they are supposed to be operating with as fire control.  I came too late to the game to offer this wise and obvious manner of 'fitting' arty into the framework.

 

All that I have read and my personal experiences is that, post tier 6, arty becomes just too devastating due to that extremely high alpha damage, so the reduction seems mechanically and balance-wise necessary.  I think the pen levels might have been increased just a tad, too, though I don't think so, really.  A couple mm of pen (the difference between 23mm and 28mm is not much of an increase at tier 6, especially after halving the alpha of the round) is not sufficient to make a serious contention of 'buffing' the HE rounds' penetration.

 

 

The stun, though.  As a receiver of it, I haven't been that much inconvenienced by it.  I can still move, so perma-stunning comes in when you are caught in a bad spot.  That happened before the changes and ended up with a dead tank nearly immediately.  I still don't think the stun mechanic makes the game more fun or challenging in any way.  So I'd be okay with dumping it completely.  In the alternative, maybe the stun effect could be reduced a bit if it can't be eliminated.

 

 

I admit, I pretty much like playing arty.  I don't like it as much as playing Mediums, Heavys and TDs; though with my bad connection, it leaves me little choice.  Most times, with my frame rates and ping, it would be hampering my team on purpose with a front line unit.  I still want to play, though, so I play arty more than I really want to, just to be able to play.

 

GL, HF & HSYBF



hgghy #12 Posted May 19 2017 - 21:16

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arty dmg was not cut in half, though.

B-C 155 55 had 1250 dmg per shot. now it has 750.

M53/M55 had about 1800 (maybe 1850? i don't remember.) now it has 1050.



dunniteowl #13 Posted May 19 2017 - 21:45

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View Posthgghy, on May 19 2017 - 21:16, said:

arty dmg was not cut in half, though.

B-C 155 55 had 1250 dmg per shot. now it has 750.

M53/M55 had about 1800 (maybe 1850? i don't remember.) now it has 1050.

 

First round you mention is a 40% reduction.

Second round you mention is a 46% reduction.


 

Looks like the damage varies according to how much initial power was in the shells.  I haven't looked at ANY actual full on numbers, because I kind of hate that stuff unless I'm digging deeper.  I do think, though, that if we were to get rid of stun, possibly reduce the splash by 15 to 20% and then, as you mention, maybe buff the alpha of shells by a marginal amount, say 10 -- 20% of current, with variances in the actual numbers to represent potential 'balancing' necessities between specific units in the class.


 

I apologize for saying arty shells were halved, because all I heard from anyone at this point was pretty much that: Alpha halved for arty HE.  So now I know that's basically not so.  This apparently is one of those numbers someone likes to pull out of thin air, so thanks for that.


 

I let all my other points stand with the modifications necessary to include that information regarding the power of arty HE shells.


 

GL, HF & HSYBF



n4cer67 #14 Posted May 19 2017 - 23:30

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View PostGAJohnnie, on May 19 2017 - 11:58, said:

Remove arty from the game. It has no useful function in a game WG bills as a "realistic immersive historically accurate" tank game. WG did not put in infantry, mines, fortification, at guns, tactical air craft or a host of historically accurate things. The no good reason for WG to keep the a-historical, absurd broken mechanic called arty. with it two ridiculous built in game mods in this Tank game.

 

Sorry put SPg's have a very useful purpose in the game. Only thing needing removal are all the nerfers.

n4cer67 #15 Posted May 19 2017 - 23:32

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Sounds good to me.

Aranai #16 Posted May 20 2017 - 00:03

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View PostPREDY4, on May 19 2017 - 18:40, said:

There was a poll very similar to this one just a couple of hours ago that had a choice of "Only allow less than one arty per battle".

 

I still choose that one.

 

Get rid of arty the game turns 100% hull down and you can do nothing.




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