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My thoughts on the Foch incident.......


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ratpak #21 Posted May 19 2017 - 19:59

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View PostPipinghot, on May 19 2017 - 12:47, said:

 They have the right to control who is a CC and who is not, they do not have the right to threaten a copyright strike just because they don't like the content.

They have every right to do so legally.



Gothraul #22 Posted May 19 2017 - 20:00

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View PostWet_Skunk, on May 19 2017 - 19:58, said:

 

I don't think this will go the way you expect it to.  There are enough people that don't care (like me), that don't have the time to be on the forum all day complaining about WG.  This will be forgotten as soon as the next case of player malcontent strikes.

 

That guy's youtube channel has two and a quarter million subscribers, I think that people are going to be taking notice very soon. This isn't the 1950s anymore get with the times. 



Gothraul #23 Posted May 19 2017 - 20:03

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View Postratpak, on May 19 2017 - 19:59, said:

They have every right to do so legally.

 

This is why the west is falling more and more behind in so many areas, just because you can do doesn't mean that you should and everyone has the right to voice their opinions even if it is verbal vomit short of making threats or blatantly false accusations.

MacDaddyMatty #24 Posted May 19 2017 - 20:04

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View PostGothraul, on May 19 2017 - 14:00, said:

 

 This isn't the 1950s anymore get with the times.

 

"The times" are entitlement and 'what's in it for me?'.

I don't think this will have any impact at all.

 

 

Those that were going to leave will still leave.

Those that were going to stay will still stay.


 

I will keep shooting red tanks.

YMMV

 


Edited by MacDaddyMatty, May 19 2017 - 20:06.


highlandwolf #25 Posted May 19 2017 - 20:07

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View Posthaxmachine21, on May 19 2017 - 18:04, said:

We all know what's transpired in the EU region....Foch made a video, severely criticizing Wargaming for their release of more and more premium tanks while, in his opinion, not fixing the game's already existing problems. This caused the EU Wargaming to sever most, if not all, of their ties with SirFoch for what was called by one WG Staff member as a 'slanderous' video. Circon just about got the axe as well, but his rant was not premeditated.....he was playing on Highway in the KV-122 (<----I know just how much that combination sucks........:ohmy:) and he began ranting as a result of frustration. However, he did apologize and removed the video, and he still has his CC status. Foch removed his as well, but since his rant was 'premeditated', according to Wargaming, it was a far more serious offense. So he lost his CC status.


 

This action led to our favorite, now VERY unhappy, gnome overlord, Mighty Jingles, getting into the fray as well. On Facebook, he has demanded that Wargaming give some sort of statement about this incident.....and that his continued support as a CC hinges on their response. He believes that WG used a false copyright strike to force Foch and Circon to remove their videos. If these copyright strikes were used, via the DMCA system, then Jingles is demanding a formal apology and the promise that Wargaming will never abuse or misuse the DMCA system ever again.


 

So, as all of this madness is unleashed across the pond.....here is what I think is the reason why Wargaming did what they did.


 

Let's be honest.....they have been taking crap from EVERYONE this past year. All of us, in some form or other, have been criticizing or insulting Wargaming (myself included, unfortunately.......:() for doing the wrong things and ignoring what is actually wrong. And it was, as I was reading a book that I have to study for being an effective Manager at McDonald's that I realized what we had done. We've put Wargaming on edge. All this past year, they have changed MM (requested by the players), re-worked/nerfed artillery (MAJORLY requested by players), added in Tier 10 LTs (also requested....and yes, they did nerf them...I know....), and rebalanced some of the more OP light tanks as well, along with buffing tanks that really needed help. And what have we done?

We've ******* and moaned about it, complaining that they did it all wrong and that they need to redo it. So all Wargaming employees who've put in long hours at the office, fulfilling their promises to the players, giving up time with their families.....are simply met with a wall of flames and hate for doing what the community wanted them to do. So when one of their CCs started ranting, flaming, and criticizing Wargaming.....they understandably took offense. It could simply be they overreacted by axing Foch in a single stroke. My bet is the good people over at WoT EU were simply fed up and irritated, and they just acted out of emotions and anger. And now, nearly every important Community Contributor over in Europe is getting extremely upset.....QuickyBaby being exempt...he still hasn't said anything (he is probably wisely keeping his mouth shut until this all blows over).


 

I've simply decided that I'm going to step back and let Wargaming do what they want to do. It's time to give them some space. Every CC on the NA server still seems pretty content with what's going on, so WGNA is doing something right that the people across the pond still can't grasp.


 

WGNA, you will continue to have my support until the day the moon falls into the sea. You guys have done an outstanding job, against all the odds. :honoring: Heh, and it only took a McDonald's Manager Training book to realize exactly what you guys are going through. There's my couple bits......

 

you're ok with WG...WG..doesn't matter what the server...WG the company who owns it all...you're ok with them threatening censorship?

JTM78 #26 Posted May 19 2017 - 20:10

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As a Sandbox tester, I feel like WoT listens to the players in SB about 40% of the time.
As a Common test server player, I feel that WoT only listens when glitches are found.
As a Live server player, I feel as WoT does not listen at all.

The reason that WoT is being painted into a corner is their own fault. The Light tanks where playable in the 9.18 Sandbox and Artillery nerfs where not as bad. The Light tanks now can done little to nothing well and all classes in the game need something they excel at. As for OP premiums, god yes WoT is putting out some of the most OP tanks in the last 6 month but that is what it takes to make money from a very upset player base. The new MM is horrible, if i was bottom tier 40% of the time, mid tier 35% of the time and top tier 25% of the time. I might feel like MM was working right but that is not how MM works. I play a lot of premium tanks most are tier 8 and I am never top tier in any of them. I do get mid tier when I play tier 8 tanks with preferred MM but that is not top tier! I really dislike the reuseable consumables, all that does is making it so module damage/crew deaths don't matter. The better part of the issues everyone is having with 9.18 were seen in Sandbox and Common Test but WoT brought it out half done.

Edited by JTM78, May 20 2017 - 04:42.


BeanHoleBandit #27 Posted May 19 2017 - 20:13

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For anyone that says this won't hurt WG all the negativity, sure some people are going to continue but there will be some that won't.. On top of alot of people already leaving.. On top of other things going on..

There is statistics showing this game in a decline recently, now this is more icing on the cake.. I'm sure that guy has friend and if he goes to another game i'm sure they will carry on with him to that game and so on so forth.. To think one pebble going down a mountain can't create a landslide is ignorance at its bliss.. 

I don't know if it can be compared but i'm sure the Airlines thought nothing would come of them dragging one man down the center of a air plane.

There is signs of it going outside of the WG community out into broader.. WG is trying to branch out even further but if its going to get negative reviews like this.. And knowing you will be censored by this game.. I'm sure that is not encouraging to anyone.  

redjkent #28 Posted May 19 2017 - 20:15

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i dont like most of the youtube people anyways they only show the best games, barely play the game complain complain its all the same

if you get that upset by a video game maybe go out and find yourself some help it just a game and these people think its there job to let the world know there upset when really i wish they would be more helpfull instead of spewing what ever comes out of there mouths



BeanHoleBandit #29 Posted May 19 2017 - 20:16

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And here's the thing if he was a CC wasn't his job to criticize and give feedback. TO WG and the COMMUNITY..... 

Community contributor.. That means he contributes to the community so he made a video about a tank WG made and he got fired for it..   He got fired for doing his job.. I mean what does that got to say about a company.. 

Raxter54 #30 Posted May 19 2017 - 20:21

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I will go home tonight, fire up my computer,  load in my Luchs, go do some scouting, and not care one iota about Sir Fochs or anyone on the EU server. ...

Wet_Skunk #31 Posted May 19 2017 - 20:25

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View PostRaxter54, on May 19 2017 - 14:21, said:

I will go home tonight, fire up my computer,  load in my Luchs, go do some scouting, and not care one iota about Sir Fochs or anyone on the EU server. ...

 

I'm right there with you.  Too many followers out there.  I'm not going to stop playing a game I like because someone else doesn't want to play it.

Guido1212 #32 Posted May 19 2017 - 20:29

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This is about how they handle their various crises.  It's one terrible institutional decision after another.  They have a fantastic game and seem to try and develop as best they can (I have issues with what they do sometimes, but overall I like the game and results).  But the company culture in regards to customer relations and PR is abysmal.  It's not like this is a one off situation.  Every time it's the same ham handed response.

 

So it's not the actual situation with the tank, it's how it's always handled.



PanzerWahoo #33 Posted May 19 2017 - 20:31

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View PostBobomite, on May 19 2017 - 19:14, said:

WG threatened to make a false copyright strike... just a couple of those and Foch could never post videos on YT ever again... and you're ok with that?

 

___I'm___ not ok with it. They have not issued a full retraction of that statement. In fact, they're glibly posting away on Facebook ignoring the problem hoping it goes away.

 

One of the many serious fallouts from this is that every contributor, whether connected to WG or not, now has to worry about what WG will do to them. This casts a serious, serious pall over anyone who thinks to offer any criticism of WG.


Edited by PanzerWahoo, May 20 2017 - 01:36.


KaiserSchnitzel #34 Posted May 19 2017 - 20:34

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View Posthaxmachine21, on May 19 2017 - 13:04, said:

 

WGNA, you will continue to have my support until the day the moon falls into the sea.

why would you do this

 

you know what? Never mind. This forum has always been, and shall always be, a bunch of concentrated nonsense.



Bobomite #35 Posted May 19 2017 - 21:04

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View Posthaxmachine21, on May 19 2017 - 10:16, said:

 

Like I said, they're probably just really upset and they went about handling it the wrong way. I said that in my original post.

 

You didn't answer the question.  

 

His career is making videos.  They threatened to make a fake and possibly illegal copyright strike that could impact his ability to ever post on Youtube again.  And you're ok with that?



Coyotebait #36 Posted May 19 2017 - 21:09

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View PostBeanHoleBandit, on May 19 2017 - 20:16, said:

And here's the thing if he was a CC wasn't his job to criticize and give feedback. TO WG and the COMMUNITY..... 

Community contributor.. That means he contributes to the community so he made a video about a tank WG made and he got fired for it..   He got fired for doing his job.. I mean what does that got to say about a company.. 

 

No, he wasn't doing his job.   What you are saying is that Wargamming, or any company for that matter SHOULD CONDONE that kind of behavior.     Thats lunacy, he ABUSED his privledge that why he got canned.

Quickbaby absolutely ROASTED the AC1 Sentinel, but he did so LOGICALLY and CALMLY and didn't let personal emotions dictate the content.     If I remember he had only 1 good thing to say about that tank (rate of fire), and every other thing he covered was how that tank was garbage.  



Coyotebait #37 Posted May 19 2017 - 21:11

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View PostBobomite, on May 19 2017 - 21:04, said:

 

You didn't answer the question.  

 

His career is making videos.  They threatened to make a fake and possibly illegal copyright strike that could impact his ability to ever post on Youtube again.  And you're ok with that?

 

If that is what it took to talk his DUMB@55 down, yep.    He was acting like an idiot.

Medicguy2 #38 Posted May 19 2017 - 21:12

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View PostCoyotebait, on May 19 2017 - 20:09, said:

 

No, he wasn't doing his job.   What you are saying is that Wargamming, or any company for that matter SHOULD CONDONE that kind of behavior.     Thats lunacy, he ABUSED his privledge that why he got canned.

Quickbaby absolutely ROASTED the AC1 Sentinel, but he did so LOGICALLY and CALMLY and didn't let personal emotions dictate the content.     If I remember he had only 1 good thing to say about that tank (rate of fire), and every other thing he covered was how that tank was garbage.  

 

See, if I had to pick SirFoch or QB to watch, I'd pick QB...at least he has tact when he gives his advice on the recent premiums, regardless of standing. (AC 1 ain't that recent, but I appreciate the thought :P )

 

OP pretty much nailed the concept on the head. Despite what some might claim, behind every business lies human beings, who are as stressed as the customers. Sooner or later, they're going to snap. They just picked a BAD tactic to use when they snapped at the unloved French TD. No wonder it received countless nerfs, eh? :trollface:



SixDasher #39 Posted May 19 2017 - 21:18

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View Postratpak, on May 19 2017 - 19:59, said:

They have every right to do so legally.

 

No, they don't. It falls under the fair use policy as has been proven several times now with other companies going after youtubers for posting bad reviews. See the Jim Sterling vs Digital Homicide case.

WG threatening to issue false copyright claims is enough to get YT to close down your channel and take away your income.

 

USA: Where we no longer believe in free speech because it may hurt someone's feelings, even if only imagined.



SixDasher #40 Posted May 19 2017 - 21:19

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View PostMedicguy2, on May 19 2017 - 21:12, said:

See, if I had to pick SirFoch or QB to watch, I'd pick QB...at least he has tact when he gives his advice on the recent premiums, regardless of standing. (AC 1 ain't that recent, but I appreciate the thought :P )

 

QB is on WG's payroll, not exactly apples to apples.






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