Jump to content


My thoughts on the Foch incident.......


  • Please log in to reply
112 replies to this topic

VinnyI82 #61 Posted May 20 2017 - 01:34

    Captain

  • Beta Testers
  • 37396 battles
  • 1,757
  • [POSHY] POSHY
  • Member since:
    07-23-2010

View PostWorland, on May 19 2017 - 18:19, said:

I seem to remember from college that free speech only protects you from the government. It does not protect what you say about individuals and companies. Companies and individuals have the ability to redress your speech towards them.

Telling your boss that he is an idiot is not protected speech, and he can fire you for it. You work at their pleasure. Same applies here.

 

Yeah except thats a non-issue with this incident.  The actual problem is the fact that they hinted at or wrongly filed a DMCA against Foch for copyright infringement on his original video, which had nothing of WG's in it.  Companies and businesses get fined for "illegally" filing a DMCA against content providers.  Foch said himself he could care less about being a CC and that Youtube was peanuts money to him.  WG KNEW right off the bat that Foch was a loose cannon and spoke his mind before they invited him to be a CC.  This is entirely on them.

Edited by VinnyI82, May 20 2017 - 01:35.


mrmojo #62 Posted May 20 2017 - 02:07

    Major

  • Players
  • 20408 battles
  • 2,816
  • [-LEG-] -LEG-
  • Member since:
    07-24-2011

Foch's swearing is just noise and should not be the issue: cut through the noise and look at the issue:

 

A tank almost totally immune from the front (unless you use gold) with a gun that's near on useless against it's tier and above (unless you use gold) - so a gold magnet and a gold sink at the same time.

 

Foch's message (without the noise) is and has always been WG is going down the wrong track and is ruining a game he loves.

 

This tank and the recent premiums before it are planned, designed and intended to be the way they are - and that's what he's unhappy about. They make most tier 8's redundant. IS-6 anyone?



Deathstar_Commander #63 Posted May 20 2017 - 02:07

    Major

  • Players
  • 51705 battles
  • 2,531
  • [YODA] YODA
  • Member since:
    05-16-2011

View Postnoupperlobeman, on May 19 2017 - 22:57, said:

No one cares about all these nobodies voicing their not so unique opinions

 

What was that? Sorry i didnt know who you were so I didn't care.

8bit_Gamer #64 Posted May 20 2017 - 02:09

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 13966 battles
  • 716
  • Member since:
    04-23-2011

View Posthaxmachine21, on May 19 2017 - 18:16, said:

 

Like I said, they're probably just really upset and they went about handling it the wrong way. I said that in my original post.

 

Do not care if they are upset....



Nightshield_ #65 Posted May 20 2017 - 05:02

    Staff sergeant

  • -Players-
  • 36697 battles
  • 448
  • Member since:
    06-07-2014

The real issue is

 

Why did two very respected Community Contributors and Youtubes go off about the game at the same time.

 

The answer to this question is more important than WG realizes.  Both Foch and Circon are so aggravated at WG for the state of the game they finally let it come out.  I viewed Circon's video, you could hear the frustration and anguish in his voice about the map he was on.  It was funny and inappropriate at the same time. 

 

For years Foch and Circon have criticized aspects of the game, and for years they have been mostly ignored, and they are Community Contributors who you would think have are given more weight by WG regarding their suggestions.  Both have been very fair and balanced about what they criticize as well, they don't say stupid things or want unrealistic changes. 

 

As Community Contributors however, they are representatives of WG and their language and comments were unprofessional, while they have the right to criticize they don't have an absolute right to insult family or curse at will. 

 

Also WOT is owned by WG and if they believe language or comments are offensive while their game plays in the background they have some right to demand that it to be removed, just as if  Warner Brothers, Sony, Disney or any other proprietary owner of material would if someone was cursing and saying something which could be taken as highly offensive over their property on YouTube.

 

Now I would defend both Foch and Circon if they just criticized the game as they usually do, but Circon's Video shocked me, it was very funny, but I knew it sounded very inappropriate and was very unCircon like.    

 

WG's lack of attention to the critiques of even there Community Contributors is the real reason this happened in the first place though.  But WG really just doesn't care and I think both Foch and Circon have finally lost what little respect they had for WG and it just came out the wrong way.

 

This is a lose lose situation for all involved.  Foch and Circon use WOT to create content and then monetize it, WOT uses Foch and Circon to create content which in turn promotes their game for free.  I think you will see even less Foch and Circon videos now, and probably less Jingles videos as well for WOT.  As for WOT, I think they should wake up to the fact that they cant keep ignoring there Community Contributors and player base without consequence.  One look at the current NA numbers should be a sign to WG that they need to change something, its seasonally low but Its the lowest I have ever seen it in three years and controversy like the Foch Circon VS WOT one only hurt the game more.

 

 


Edited by Nightshield_, May 20 2017 - 05:04.


earthman34 #66 Posted May 20 2017 - 05:26

    Major

  • Players
  • 49613 battles
  • 3,235
  • Member since:
    07-17-2013

View PostHOTA_CHATON, on May 19 2017 - 12:28, said:

 

I really haven't seen any OP premiums, in this game, except the Type 59 and that is why they refuse to sell it again.  It was so OP, that it was not until you reached the T29 or IS that you had any hope of out gunning it

 

You must be playing a different game.

mrmojo #67 Posted May 20 2017 - 05:34

    Major

  • Players
  • 20408 battles
  • 2,816
  • [-LEG-] -LEG-
  • Member since:
    07-24-2011

View Postnoupperlobeman, on May 20 2017 - 05:57, said:

No one cares about all these nobodies voicing their not so unique opinions

 

Should be in the dictionary under ironic - as in:

 

ironic; eg: noupperlobman says " No one cares about all these nobodies voicing their not so unique opinions"



NBornKilla #68 Posted May 20 2017 - 06:32

    Captain

  • Players
  • 43664 battles
  • 1,958
  • [JAV] JAV
  • Member since:
    02-22-2012

View PostHOTA_CHATON, on May 19 2017 - 18:28, said:

 

I really haven't seen any OP premiums, in this game, except the Type 59 and that is why they refuse to sell it again.  It was so OP, that it was not until you reached the T29 or IS that you had any hope of out gunning it

 

when i started playing world of tank i remember seen tier 4 tank fighting tier 7 tank  and no the t4 was not a light tank

 

back where the kv-3 was a tier 6 ops as hell tank  the type-59 armor was  strong as hell  so yeah the type 59 was an op tank back then lol



earthman34 #69 Posted May 20 2017 - 06:46

    Major

  • Players
  • 49613 battles
  • 3,235
  • Member since:
    07-17-2013

View Posthaxmachine21, on May 19 2017 - 12:04, said:

We all know what's transpired in the EU region....Foch made a video, severely criticizing Wargaming for their release of more and more premium tanks while, in his opinion, not fixing the game's already existing problems. This caused the EU Wargaming to sever most, if not all, of their ties with SirFoch for what was called by one WG Staff member as a 'slanderous' video. Circon just about got the axe as well, but his rant was not premeditated.....he was playing on Highway in the KV-122 (<----I know just how much that combination sucks........:ohmy:) and he began ranting as a result of frustration. However, he did apologize and removed the video, and he still has his CC status. Foch removed his as well, but since his rant was 'premeditated', according to Wargaming, it was a far more serious offense. So he lost his CC status.


 

This action led to our favorite, now VERY unhappy, gnome overlord, Mighty Jingles, getting into the fray as well. On Facebook, he has demanded that Wargaming give some sort of statement about this incident.....and that his continued support as a CC hinges on their response. He believes that WG used a false copyright strike to force Foch and Circon to remove their videos. If these copyright strikes were used, via the DMCA system, then Jingles is demanding a formal apology and the promise that Wargaming will never abuse or misuse the DMCA system ever again.


 

So, as all of this madness is unleashed across the pond.....here is what I think is the reason why Wargaming did what they did.


 

Let's be honest.....they have been taking crap from EVERYONE this past year. All of us, in some form or other, have been criticizing or insulting Wargaming (myself included, unfortunately.......:() for doing the wrong things and ignoring what is actually wrong. And it was, as I was reading a book that I have to study for being an effective Manager at McDonald's that I realized what we had done. We've put Wargaming on edge. All this past year, they have changed MM (requested by the players), re-worked/nerfed artillery (MAJORLY requested by players), added in Tier 10 LTs (also requested....and yes, they did nerf them...I know....), and rebalanced some of the more OP light tanks as well, along with buffing tanks that really needed help. And what have we done?

We've ******* and moaned about it, complaining that they did it all wrong and that they need to redo it. So all Wargaming employees who've put in long hours at the office, fulfilling their promises to the players, giving up time with their families.....are simply met with a wall of flames and hate for doing what the community wanted them to do. So when one of their CCs started ranting, flaming, and criticizing Wargaming.....they understandably took offense. It could simply be they overreacted by axing Foch in a single stroke. My bet is the good people over at WoT EU were simply fed up and irritated, and they just acted out of emotions and anger. And now, nearly every important Community Contributor over in Europe is getting extremely upset.....QuickyBaby being exempt...he still hasn't said anything (he is probably wisely keeping his mouth shut until this all blows over).


 

I've simply decided that I'm going to step back and let Wargaming do what they want to do. It's time to give them some space. Every CC on the NA server still seems pretty content with what's going on, so WGNA is doing something right that the people across the pond still can't grasp.


 

WGNA, you will continue to have my support until the day the moon falls into the sea. You guys have done an outstanding job, against all the odds. :honoring: Heh, and it only took a McDonald's Manager Training book to realize exactly what you guys are going through. There's my couple bits......

 

Could you suck up a little more? Maybe they'll give you a free tier 2.

This company deserves every single bit of criticism they get, they've made hundreds of millions of dollars off of us. I doubt their developers get much of it. I suspect most of it is sitting in some Cyprus bank avoiding taxes.

Bad game design, bad gameplay decisions, a contempt for the North American and European markets, and this idea that "contributors" aren't allowed to criticize the company....how Russian.



TTuren #70 Posted May 20 2017 - 07:24

    Corporal

  • Players
  • 55528 battles
  • 21
  • Member since:
    03-22-2011
Foch spoke truth to power and took rounds for it.  Giving him a strike was a nuclear option that well into the scope of the Russian power mad, kill the journalist response.  Speak out and die is certainly not something anyone should support in any context.  If the they want to kill the game for certain then this is a great start here in the US of A.

Zeedox #71 Posted May 20 2017 - 09:19

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 16654 battles
  • 729
  • [TESTE] TESTE
  • Member since:
    10-09-2011
The apologists are out hard today..................

I_QQ_4_U #72 Posted May 20 2017 - 09:30

    Major

  • -Players-
  • 22592 battles
  • 6,812
  • Member since:
    10-17-2016
I don't give a rats tookus about all this nonsense, it's a freaking video game. Don't bite the hand that feeds you I guess. I take it this guy makes a living playing a video game someone else produces? Maybe he should be an adult about it and stay away from juvenile criticisms.

poppavein #73 Posted May 20 2017 - 10:22

    Captain

  • Players
  • 25299 battles
  • 1,744
  • [PACNW] PACNW
  • Member since:
    12-06-2011
The DMCA threat was over the top.  WG needs to [edited]apologize and promise to never pull that crapagain.

FluffyBadBad #74 Posted May 20 2017 - 10:48

    Captain

  • Players
  • 29596 battles
  • 1,779
  • Member since:
    10-21-2011

the offensive video offended someone.

 

i don't blame wg for wanting to disconnect with him.

 

can't really blame them for the threats either.

 

piss off a cop and you go to jail. even if you go to court and the charges get dropped. you're still going to experience the consequences of pissing off a cop.



Cpl_Maida #75 Posted May 20 2017 - 13:07

    Captain

  • -Players-
  • 35793 battles
  • 1,064
  • [VILIN] VILIN
  • Member since:
    06-21-2014

View PostWet_Skunk, on May 19 2017 - 13:52, said:

 

There will be no exodus, as most don't care.  The forum hissyfitters are the ones that get upset.

 

Confirmed. I couldn't​ care less.



Cpl_Maida #76 Posted May 20 2017 - 13:09

    Captain

  • -Players-
  • 35793 battles
  • 1,064
  • [VILIN] VILIN
  • Member since:
    06-21-2014

View PostGothraul, on May 19 2017 - 14:03, said:

 

This is why the west is falling more and more behind in so many areas, just because you can do doesn't mean that you should and everyone has the right to voice their opinions even if it is verbal vomit short of making threats or blatantly false accusations.

 

Lol.



TankFullOfBourbon #77 Posted May 20 2017 - 13:18

    Major

  • Players
  • 30351 battles
  • 6,795
  • [DHO6] DHO6
  • Member since:
    08-10-2013

OP, you are of course entitled to your opionion and I believe you are right about WG being under pressure. Lower revenues and higher player discontent. Badly structured companies under multiple forms of pressure often panic and make mistakes. That's what we are seeing here. But if you want to have community providers help you improve and promote the game you also need accept negative critisism and people calling you for the crsp you're doing. It's not the players fault that WG is badly run and under pressure.



Grizzwal #78 Posted May 20 2017 - 13:28

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 9121 battles
  • 224
  • Member since:
    11-16-2013
Bottom line is this, Foch has done a lot of videos that so many have used his view points on whether to go down a tank line or buy a certain premium tank. WG has made a lot of money off his influential recommendations. (Is it worth the gold)

Edited by Grizzwal, May 20 2017 - 13:29.


BurglarOfBanff_ff #79 Posted May 20 2017 - 13:44

    Captain

  • -Players-
  • 28734 battles
  • 1,556
  • [DHO4] DHO4
  • Member since:
    05-04-2014
WG is obviously not without it's problems, but I watched the original Foch video and as part of his attack on WG he used the names of WG employees and their children.  That's over the line. 

TankFullOfBourbon #80 Posted May 20 2017 - 13:46

    Major

  • Players
  • 30351 battles
  • 6,795
  • [DHO6] DHO6
  • Member since:
    08-10-2013

View PostBurglarOfBanff_ff, on May 20 2017 - 13:44, said:

WG is obviously not without it's problems, but I watched the original Foch video and as part of his attack on WG he used the names of WG employees and their children.  That's over the line.

 

Yeah, that is crossing the line, alright. I didnt know that.

 

 


 

I actually checked the video. It contain all the usual swearing and cussing that we know and love with Sir Foch but there are no mentioning of WG employees and their children. At least not in the version I saw. Perhaps I only saw a part of it?


Edited by TankFullOfBourbon, May 21 2017 - 11:47.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users