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british cruiser tank mk VIII or mk IX challenger/Avenger

british tanks cruiser mk VIII cruiser mk IX challenger tank avenger challenger cromwell derivatives

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1funnycat #1 Posted May 20 2017 - 04:49

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Anyone know whether the challenger was the cruiser mk VIII or IX? different sources say different things, and if not the mk IX what would it be; the avenger? Im doing drawings of the british ww2 favs and this nomenclature is bugging me

 



bfp4f360 #2 Posted May 20 2017 - 05:00

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the last cruiser was comet, or centurion.....as in 7 was comet, 8 was cent i think....

when u say challenger are u talking about the td or the modern mbt challenger?

 

or am i completely wrong on everything 



Anlushac11 #3 Posted May 20 2017 - 05:09

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Challenger was listed as Tank, Cruiser Mk  VIII Challenger A30.

 

Avenger was a variant of the Challenger so was also listed as Tank, Cruiser, Avenger A30. Avenger had a different lower profile turret with open top with armored cover set a couple inches above side of turret so Commander and turret crew could look out for better visibility. IIRC one of the loaders was removed.

 



bfp4f360 #4 Posted May 20 2017 - 05:10

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so the tier 7 td then

Anlushac11 #5 Posted May 20 2017 - 05:12

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Yes. Tier 7 tank destroyer. First turret is Challenger, second turret is Avenger.

Edited by Anlushac11, May 20 2017 - 05:13.


bfp4f360 #6 Posted May 20 2017 - 05:13

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oh okay, nah Im pretty sure that the comet or centurion where the last of the cruisers. Maybe the chall/avg where td variants like jagpanther/hetzer/marder where?

FrozenKemp #7 Posted May 20 2017 - 05:37

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I could be wrong,  but I don't think the Centurion was given any cruiser tank number because it wasn't a cruiser.  It was the first tank where the British said, ok we have this great Meteor engine so we don't really have to pick either armour or speed, we can have both. I don't think it had a designation as a universal tank, but that's the general idea.



Jarms48 #8 Posted May 20 2017 - 06:29

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The names give it away:

- Challenger: 17-Pdr Cruiser (shares the same family as the Crusader, Cromwell, Comet), filled the same roll as the Firefly

- Avenger: 17-Pdr SPAT (shares the same family as the Avenger, Achilles), filled the same roll as British 3in SPM M10

 

 



FrozenKemp #9 Posted May 21 2017 - 17:38

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Never mind, I had an attack of The Dumb.

 

edit: although - per wikipedia, both the Cromwell AND the Challenger shared the designation Cruiser VIII? 


Edited by FrozenKemp, May 21 2017 - 17:40.


Sister_Mary_Gearchange #10 Posted Jun 07 2017 - 07:54

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View PostAnlushac11, on May 20 2017 - 05:09, said:

Challenger was listed as Tank, Cruiser Mk  VIII Challenger A30.

 

Avenger was a variant of the Challenger so was also listed as Tank, Cruiser, Avenger A30. Avenger had a different lower profile turret with open top with armored cover set a couple inches above side of turret so Commander and turret crew could look out for better visibility. IIRC one of the loaders was removed.

 

 

According to Ellis & Chamberlin, Avenger was not a variant of the Challenger, per se.  It was designed from the start for the Royal Artillery anti tank regiments.  It used the Challenger hull, which is (when you get down to it) simply a late production Cromwell hull - F type?  The turret was derived from the Comet turret, including the removal of the roof so that the 17pdr (instead of the modified version crammed into the Comet) could be fitted.  The 'roof' was case hardened mild steel - good for splinter protection only.  It was used by 2 RA AT regiments ~1946 - 1949.

Sister_Mary_Gearchange #11 Posted Jun 07 2017 - 08:01

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View PostJarms48, on May 20 2017 - 06:29, said:

The names give it away:

- Challenger: 17-Pdr Cruiser (shares the same family as the Crusader, Cromwell, Comet), filled the same roll as the Firefly

- Avenger: 17-Pdr SPAT (shares the same family as the Avenger, Achilles), filled the same roll as British 3in SPM M10

 

 

 

Challenger was issued to the recce regiments to stiffen the firepower of the Cromwells.  Issued 1 Challenger per troop, so 1 Chally & 3 Cromwells, assuming they're at TOE strength.   Cromwells & Challengers were *only* issued to recce regiments.  Firefly was *only* issued to the tank regiments.  Different roles.

 

Avenger was issued, post war, to 2 Royal Artillery AT regiments, replacing towed 17 pdrs.



ket101 #12 Posted Jun 07 2017 - 09:05

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From what I can tell, Challenger, Avenger and Centurion were not designated as Mk anything.  The first Centurion was designated: Tank, Cruiser, Centurion I (A41).  Comet was designated : Tank, Cruiser, Comet I (A34).  Avenger was designated: Self-Propelled Gun 17 pounder, A30 (Avenger).  Challenger was designated: Tank, Cruiser, Challenger (A30).  Cromwell was designated: Tank, Cruiser, Mk VIII, Cromwell (A27M).  Centaur was: Tank, Cruiser, Mk VIII, Centaur (A27L).  Cavalier was: Tank, Cruiser, Mk VII, Cavalier (A24).

 

That's according to the reference material I have available.

 

Remember that in British service, Self-propelled Guns were operated by the Royal Artillery.


Edited by ket101, Jun 07 2017 - 09:09.





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